Weight Lifting & Cycling??
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While lifting won't have much of a direct effect on cycling endurance, extra total body strength can be benefitial during sprints and attacks.
That being said I think the most imprortant use of weight training is in the off season to correct muscular imbalances that can lead to injury. I think of it as pre-hab. Rebalance everything before you get injured.
If nothing else doing core work should mandatory year round. While not usually with weights it is still resistance training (your body weight). Many of the exercises I do are static holds for 30-60 seconds as muscular endurance not the ability to move big weight. After about 3 weeks of swiss ball training, low back pain during long rides disappeared.
For those who site Armstrong as an example, one of the major reasons he lifts in the off season is during the season he'll lose muscle mass. Tons of endurance training can be very catabolic (muscle breakdown). While we don't need to be bodybuilders, we do need muscles so the key is to strike an balance.
Like any training tool, weight training has it's places but doesn't replace riding your bike, A LOT.
That being said I think the most imprortant use of weight training is in the off season to correct muscular imbalances that can lead to injury. I think of it as pre-hab. Rebalance everything before you get injured.
If nothing else doing core work should mandatory year round. While not usually with weights it is still resistance training (your body weight). Many of the exercises I do are static holds for 30-60 seconds as muscular endurance not the ability to move big weight. After about 3 weeks of swiss ball training, low back pain during long rides disappeared.
For those who site Armstrong as an example, one of the major reasons he lifts in the off season is during the season he'll lose muscle mass. Tons of endurance training can be very catabolic (muscle breakdown). While we don't need to be bodybuilders, we do need muscles so the key is to strike an balance.
Like any training tool, weight training has it's places but doesn't replace riding your bike, A LOT.
I agree. In fact, I find that as I ride for long periods of time my arms and upper body tire before my legs and lungs (I'm not nor will I ever be skinny). At that point, my posture fails and the all the weight focuses on the knife of a seat cutting into my butt. So this winter, I am doing lots of high rep/mid weight training for the upper body. Also... if you get numb hands, try doing a light trap and delt workout before a ride. Get the blood circulating around the shoulders and neck. Keep the neck loose. Let me know if this helps at all or am I nuts?
Could someone comment on the use of a fixed gear bicycle in the mountains? I have been experimenting with one, and using leg braking down hill combined with the slow cadence climbing. This seems to work well as a strength training tool, "on the bike". I hit cadences down hill of 130+ and up hill down into the 30's. Advice? I feel great climbing, but I am a natural climber. I'm wondering if it will help my sprint?
Chris
Chris
any training will do you good...weight training that is specific to you sport is best...I know cyclists that have begun weight training programs, they were decent to average climbers, after a few months of targetted training( squats, back exercises, core exercises) they were stronger climbers and maintained higher levels of stamina throughout long rides. You will derive benefits no matter what!!
As the more informed have put it in early posts on this thread, It is not really strength you are training here, but an aerobic endurance at a lower cadence higher load cycling application.
I am very interested on how or if this will translate to improve performance at higher cadences ? Especially when climbing.
The theory might go something like: with a heavier load on the pedals my contributing leg muscles will have to recruit more fibres, therefore I will be conditioning more in % terms of my contributing muscles.
The opposing theory is: Muscle conditioning is very specific and when I require additional leg speed ( increased cadence ) the training effect will not translate.
AND as we have established the greatest endurance / power scenarios can be generated at cadences of 90 to 110
Keep records, if you have a power meter record results, if you train regularly with proper loads and periods you may improve anyway, But I would really like to know if your improvements are substantial.
You are (hopefully) going to get a flood of varied opinion, remember it is only opinion.
I would do it for a set period. check results and then go back to higher cadences, check results, compare etc.
But then again I'm not a cycling coach !
Good advice. I will try some tests after some hill work on the fixed gear. I'm wondering what ric thinks.
I haven read any other posts, but i suggest squats, in 2 different ways first of all when you squat go all they way down till your palms touch the ground.
first way, sit in place bouncing up and down.
second way, put 5, 2 by 1 foot boxes down, you can have them high or long, then jump over them and land and stop between each one. And do not hit them! if you stand them up, dont knock them down, if you do, do 20-50 push ups as punishment, and if there laying down dont land on them, and giver your self the same punishment.
I perfer the 2nd way, I ussualy switch them, have 3 lying down and 2 standing up, this realy works most muscels if not all in your upper leg.
usually do it 3-5 times, to the end and back (without standing up) being 1 set.
first way, sit in place bouncing up and down.
second way, put 5, 2 by 1 foot boxes down, you can have them high or long, then jump over them and land and stop between each one. And do not hit them! if you stand them up, dont knock them down, if you do, do 20-50 push ups as punishment, and if there laying down dont land on them, and giver your self the same punishment.
I perfer the 2nd way, I ussualy switch them, have 3 lying down and 2 standing up, this realy works most muscels if not all in your upper leg.
usually do it 3-5 times, to the end and back (without standing up) being 1 set.
From everything I have read, weight training is best left for the off season. The main reason for a cyclest to weight train is to keep mainly the upper body strong. By keeping the upper body toned you do two things, first is it helps when climbing, when you are pulling on the handlebars when in a standing postion. Second strong muscles protect the bones in a fall. If you look at Lance and companys upper bodies you will notice they are thin but firm. Hope this helps.
to improve your sprint you need to do sprint training. climbing training is generally aerobic based, whilst sprinting is completely different.
ric
i think that trying to train high and low cadence stuff isn't really worthwhile -- there's some need for this but not much, basically you need to train to cope with a variety of cadence situations (e.g. you get caught on a steep hill unawares with a gear not low enough).
basically, you're just better off training at a higher sustained workload
ric
if you're going to weight train (and there's no real reason to) then the off season would be best.
neither of the these two reasons are valid -- cycling doesn't require much strength, i.e., what you naturally have is enough (unless you have a functional disability or are a frail old person) and secondly it won't protect in the case of a fall.
if you don't have enough strength to support yourself when on a bike, then there's something wrong with you, such that you wouldn't in the slightest be worried about biking!
ric
1. I understand that high/low cadence training is non-specific, and simply training at an appropriate load with a comfortable cadence is probably the way to go, but what are the effects of high/low cadence training - what is different physiologically compared to training at a regular cadence? Obviously there are different forces and speeds, how does this affect things, particularly with regards to the training effect?
2. While it seems pretty clear weight training isn't going to help much with general endurance performance, could you comment a bit more on the role of gym/strength work in injury prevention. I know that the physio I see has prescribed various strengthening exercises that have helped sort out muscle imbalances and knee problems for me. These have, thus far, not involved weights, but it makes me wonder if for some riders strengthening certain muscle groups with weights might be appropriate. Whilst just 'chucking weights around', squatting, leg press, etc, are probably not going to help in most instances, could certain riders with problems with injury caused by muscle imbalance potentially be helped by a well put together gym program by an expert health professional (not captain buff at your local Steroid Pumping Heroes franchise gym)?
2. While it seems pretty clear weight training isn't going to help much with general endurance performance, could you comment a bit more on the role of gym/strength work in injury prevention. I know that the physio I see has prescribed various strengthening exercises that have helped sort out muscle imbalances and knee problems for me. These have, thus far, not involved weights, but it makes me wonder if for some riders strengthening certain muscle groups with weights might be appropriate. Whilst just 'chucking weights around', squatting, leg press, etc, are probably not going to help in most instances, could certain riders with problems with injury caused by muscle imbalance potentially be helped by a well put together gym program by an expert health professional (not captain buff at your local Steroid Pumping Heroes franchise gym)?
I was thinking that the additional strength required to push the big gear up hill would translate to more strength anaerobically in the sprint situation, but I understand your approach would be to ignore the low cadence stuff and work on anaerobic intervals for sprinting. I never realized before how much guess work was involved in my training! Your comments have helped me become more analytical. Can you recommend any books other than Joe Friel's? Maybe some professional journals?
Chris
Edd, I'm not confusing them. We seemed to have exhausted the possibilities for general strength training in endurance athletes - but perhaps there is a role for remedial weight training. The name of this thread is 'weight lifting and cycling', not 'general strength training for endurance performance'. What do you reckon? Is there a role for remedial weight training, how many people need to do it, and is there a role for doing it before you have a problem - preventative rather than remedial?
Valid point...
Having been a witness to weights room activity over the past 30 odd years I am going to suggest that there may be a role for some strength work, and really want to emphasize the word “MAY” here.
I would think that a cross training programme that may include some weights work in it, would be more appropriate and I also think this only need be a minimal activity, say 2 x 15 min a week max
I haven’t read anywhere on this site about anyone with shoulder problems but they are very prevalent in cycling ( I get to see them after the physio has done with them) usually crash victims.
I don’t believe you can train so you are strong enough to withstand the impact of a crash, the human body has its frailties, nothing we can do. If you are considering putting on some 30 kg of muscle maybe that may help, but that is certainly not practical.
Lower back pain and attempting to prevent it is a completely different kettle of fish and a very complex one at that. Without getting deeply into biomechanical gibberish I’ll simply say back pain is very very very rarely due to strength or so call strength imbalances. It is usually caused by a preexisting medical conditions, ie: scoliosis, bulging disc, old crash injury, etc.
Often the muscles that support the spine and prevent circumstances that lead to pressure/position/anomalies that cause lower back pain simply fatigue and the problems arise, I personally get very severe lower back pain after three and quarter hours on the road bike, like a Swiss movement, you can set your watch by it. I have a weights and flexibility routine to manage this. I'm effectively extending the time period. For me, it has nothing to with strength and everything to do with endurance.
I’m not sure I know how you would train to ensure some obscure core muscle contribution will not fatigue as a prevention exercise. Once it plays up we can identify what it is and work to rectify the problem.
If you are a road cyclist and you feel that you have extraordinarily inadequate muscle mass, you’re seriously under weight, Then you may want to do some strength routine in the off season. Your coach will probably tell you not to gain any weight as it will slow you down.
My best guess recommendation, I say “guess” because I’m not sure who’s going to read this and construe their own meaning. Is to have an active life off the bike as well as on it.
I can not think of a better cross training activity then a night on a dance floor followed by some more of the same night on the kitchen floor, hopefully not alone and hopefully sober, so you won’t regret it in the morning.
or a day at the beach in the surf, a game of squash or tennis ( not golf, I hate golf )
I like to spend 5 minutes with a skipping rope twice a week, mainly because you have to stand up straight to skip properly, shoulders down and back, their natural position, upper back straight. Also works the calf.
A morning a week on the river in a one man skull also appeals to me. The tension through the torso ( core ) is in almost an opposing direction then when you are on the bike, little bit of pelvic rock when you pull on the ores.
If you have an injury or a condition that requires strength training intervention, well that is entirely different.
Just my opinion.....
I think ric means to train for 'most' of the time in the cadences that you will be using in races and I agree with him. You will get enough 'practice' pedaling while doing normal training. There are specific examples where you wish to train outside normal cadences (e.g. to correct a pedaling problem).
Common drills practiced designed to improve pedaling and not fitness are...
1. Sustained high cadence (e.g. blocks of 5 mins at a high cadence say 120 ro 130).
2. Peak high cadence (e.g. sprints up to high cadences say 150 to 200).
3. Chaning cadence (e.g. changing your candece as quickly as possible between two known values e.g. 70 to 120 and back).
All these drills can be performed under low resistance like rollers and drill 3 can be performed wity moderate resistance.
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