Weight-Lifting for Legs

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Threshold, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Well the legends if they are going to do weight training better atleast learn proper form and honestly based upon the photo of Lance Armstrong he needs a few pointers.

    Can he strain that neck a little more? Is he trying to count the stars? Maybe he is in deep thought looking up at the sky and wondering when should I tell everyone the truth?

    Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

    -js
     


  2. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Multiple state championships, but only one fatty masters national championship...and on a tandem to boot! OTOH, we did go on to set the national record, beating a team captained by one of the best TTers the US has ever produced, so I guess you can say we went pretty fast even if the competition was a little thin.

    Not that fast anymore, but in 2002 she did win nationals by beating, in the semi-finals, the pursuiter ranked #1 by the UCI at the time (i.e., Erin Mirabella). Unfortunately, USA Cycling decided to send the other woman and the ultimate silver medalist to Worlds that year, so that Angie missed out on her chance. She probably wouldn't have made the podium, but she almost certainly would have made the top eight or so (IIRC, Mirabella was somewhere in the bottom half of the top 10 that year, which is about where she usually placed).

    Okay, enough bragging about my talented (and smart and beautiful :)) wife: relevant to this thread, she only made the top step of the podium after she stopped lifting weights entirely, and concentrated on riding her bike...
     
  3. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    I suggest that you start your reading here:

    Molecular responses to strength and endurance trai... [Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2009] - PubMed result

    1. Anecdotes are not scientific data.

    2. In point of fact, many elite sprint athletes do NOT lift weights. (Although I thought we were discussing endurance cycling here???)

    Sorry, but not proven fact (and in fact, if you read interviews of Hoy, he disagrees with your perspective).
     
  4. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Such as VO2max?.

    Your logic is flawed.

    Unfortunately, Bradley Wiggins has a greater VO2max than Cancellara & so do the Shlecks.

    Wiggins ain't no Cancellara, especially when it comes to TT success.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuAzka-zz3w]YouTube - Cancellara dépasse wiggins au chrono des championnats du monde mendrisio 2009[/ame]
     
  5. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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  6. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    VO2max is 5 minutes long last time I checked...when was the last time you performed 5 minutes straight with no breaks of any weight training exercise.

    How about this? Take a leg press machine with no weight and just go for 5 minutes straight? See how you do...

    Now if you want to talk anywhere between 5-30sec max power..fine. It can help but otherwise ... no.

    -js
     
  7. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Come on ... it was a good read. But really his form sux.
     
  8. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Point missed.
     
  9. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    Correct, but then you drop a gear and start all over.
     
  10. kopride

    kopride Member

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    How about this point. Name one powerlifting champion who has ever excelled in endurance cycling. Assuming that lifting helps endurance cycling, then an athlete who trains exclusively on weight training should be able to produce a significantly faster time trial than the overall population. Put a bunch of power lifters on an ergo for an hour and see how they perform. Put a bunch of cyclists on a powerlifting stage and it would be a complete joke. Compared to the typical 135 pound powerlifter, Armstrong's weightlifting strength is laughable. There are 135 pound HS girls that squat 220 pounds. These are very specific events that have very little in common with each other.

    The lifters would not perform well on a 60 minute erg time trial, any more than they would perform well if you sent them on a 6 mile run.

    Now, if you want to talk whether strength training is beneficial to overall health to the average joe, I think there is ample support; but as to whether it improves performance in endurance related sports like cycling, the evidence is very tenuous and anecdotal. And that's all that anyone is saying, that there is a dearth of peer reviewed scientific evidence that demonstrates that weight lifting increases cycling performance. Indeed, if one performed a meta-analysis of the studies, which is a study of all the studies, the results indicate that lifting decreases performance in endurance related events like cycling. However, there are studies that demonstrate that cycling at certain intensity levels at certain durations appears to improve cycling performance over time.

    Oh, and there are also studies that demonstrate that lifting weights improves lifting weights. Really, aside to cut weight for a competition, no powerlifter would ever jump on a bike.

    Go to pub med and pull all the exercise physiology studies on these topics. Then read not only the abstracts, but the full text and see who sponsored the study, the sample size and methodology. After you get the total population of scientifically valid studies and average out the results according to generally accepted scientific principles, what you will find is the conclusions of Coggan and others are valid and supportable. Hey, you can find an isolated study performed by clowns to prove almost any proposition, but if your do a proper meta-analysis of the studies you will reach the same conclusion. If the opposite results were true, then Coggan and other would advocate some lifting in an overall program. Unless, you believe that they are part of some cabal of anti-weightlifters, or a group that wants to preserve the mystery and secrets of lifting enhanced success.

    If you perform that type of meta-analysis, share your results and we will discuss. Otherwise, you're just trolling on a very beaten topic.
     
  11. kopride

    kopride Member

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    I think that we have to be very careful when referencing the performance of isolated pros and why they perform better. First, you are assuming that Cancellara (or Armstrong) is really accurately sharing specific elements of his training routine, which is a dubious assumption. Second, you need to assume unlimited time to train, which most of us with full time jobs and families don't have. Third, you have to ignore the compelling evidence of widespread use of PEDs in cycling at the elite level along with extremely impressive diversion and cover up programs to hide use and effects. IOW, showing pictures of these guys lifting big weights may just be PR to mask or explain other PED use. The truth is, that we know very little of what these athletes actually did and still do to become the freaks of nature that they are now.

    In short, relying upon Armstrong or Cancellara's "training" program is a bit like saying that you are going to rely upon Barry Bonds to be your guide to hitting a baseball. Most of us have limited time to train. The question for most of us, is assuming 10-12 hours a week to train, no PEDs, and involvement in work and family life, what's the best use of those 12 hours? I think you can make a case that using some of that time to strength train would improve overall health and fitness. I think that the case that using some of that 12 hours off the bike rather than on the bike to increase cycling performance is very weak.

    As someone who does resistance train, I can attest that it does dramatically affect recovery for a typical weekend warrior type athlete. IOW, I can't train on the bike as hard because I am recovering from a resistant workout, aside from the time issue.Your results may vary.
     
  12. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Which contradicts what genius Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D. Professor of Kinesiology, Pennsylvania State University, concluded in his book, Biomechanics in Sport, “Strength endurance is characterized by a combination of great strength and significant endurance” regarding the strength endurance needed for cycling.

    http://www.hhdev.psu.edu/kines/faculty/docs/Zatsiorsky%20CV.pdf

    >>>Usain Bolt’s Workouts and Diet<<<

    Lets get the facts straight.

    Could you please point me to which sprinters don't lift weights.

    Ohhhh & don't mention the world top 3. Bolt, Tyson Gay & Asafa Powell, they all lift weights.

    Hoy, Bolt, Pendleton, Meares, Gay, Armstrong, Powell, Cancellara, Thorkildsen etc etc etc etc etc etc ALL lift to improve performance & are among the fastest/most powerful athletes alive in there own respective disciplines.

    Hello?. Anyone in there?.

    Sorry Coggan, your respected on these boards (not sure why), but your arguments contradict what is going on in the real world in sport.

    Your very foolish.
     
  13. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Hey KO,

    Good to see your post. I was lurking as I went to Lutz yesterday and was thinking about cycling. Was not sure you would be here. See from another thread still riding even with the issue.

    I started riding again several months ago and can finally stay in the saddle for 90 minutes without too much discomfort. My watts are just starting to get better as I did do 150 watts avg for an hour today. It will be a long climb back to 260 if I ever see that again.

    Was involved with the PRP study with Lutz and seeing the benefits combined with lots of core exercises (the ones I used to make fun of). I may have another round of injections before the end of the year but seems to have gotten back atleast 50% of my former life which is great. Just started to travel again as just came back from Portland...

    -js
     
  14. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Where is your power at while your trying to develop this new ability?.

    Mine drops incredibly.
     
  15. kopride

    kopride Member

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    Great news. Ironically. my wife, who is also very fit, started having numbness and tingling down the arms along with pain. Turns out she has a huge herniated disk at C-5-6. I mean really huge. So big that they want her to get another MRI, this time with contrast to see if it is just disk, and rule out a tumor. Her symptoms are a little bit better so we are hoping no surgery will be necessary, but neck surgery is no joke. We will probably be seeing Lutz as well since she really is looking at surgery as a last resort.
     
  16. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    A bit much don't you think...

    So how many podium appearances have you had using weight lifting to improve your cycling abilities?

    -js
     
  17. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Chaps rollseyes

    No! Where not talking about fat powerlifters who don't go cycling.

    Please stay on topic.

    Thankyou.
     
  18. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Refer to the cyclists who have reached legendary status that lift weights (but don't compare generations).

    Apples & oranges.
     
  19. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Really sorry to hear the news...herniated discs at any level are no joke but when they describe it as huge that is a concern. Like they say it is not the size but the placement as mine is in the perfect wrong spot, right against the spine so gets the least amount of blood. Did she ever have a neck or head trauma? Probably a long time ago and something recently as simple as a slip pushed it over the edge.

    Surgery should definitely be last resort. I am glad I stuck it out so far and Lutz is the best and would never tell you surgery unless no choice. Definitely go see him. I can not thank you enough for the recommendation.

    -js
     
  20. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    I am asking about YOU. What has been YOUR RESULTS FROM THIS REGIMEN.

    -js
     
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