Weight Loss help



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2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
Adkins is calorie counting. I think reducing carbs is a very good thing.
The food pyramid is a joke what you think doctors came up with it? No it was inspired but corporations. Just like the low fat diet was an advertising gimmick.
There are way to many grains in the pyramid. Not enough veggies and fruits. Grains these days are just empty calories pretty much. Better to eat fruit if you want carbs.
There have been no real studies showing Adkins is bad or unsafe. There have been garbage about I of course.
Us Americans are so afraid of fat and it has a bad rap. But hell we are told to eat bread and pasta and other garbage all of the time.
Look at what we evolved eating. Insects meat we could catch fruits and veggies nuts and seeds. Not wonder bread and cereal and milk and low fat foods.
I think a diet in fruits and veggies nuts and meat/beans other proteins is a good diet.
Hell since I stopped eating grains for the most part I have great blood levels. And right now I am about 60 pounds overweight.
Have you ever looked at the research surrounding Atkins? Again, Atkins is also a comercial organisation. Why are you Americans so affraid of fat and now obsesed with cutting out carbohydrates (don't you realise that advertising is just that, advertising)? Surely a healthy amount of both (i.e. a balanced diet with health food choices is the way to go). 'What we evolved eating' is such a daft statement, given that the Atkins diet doesn't replicate this, we don't know for sure what was eaten, it was different in diffrent parts of the world and meat (being dificult to get hold of) wasn't a big part of prehistoric man's diet!

Being 60 pounds over weight you should see a nutritionalist not following a 'one size fits all' diet! This is also a forum for people that want to exercise, suggesting that people don't need carbs to exercise and won't get the knock is factualy wrong.
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
You did not ask how much I used to weigh did you?
if you use your brains in eating it makes a big difference. Eating lots of grains leaves you hungry. they don't keep you full or provide very much nutrition. a lot of fat will keep you full a long time. sometimes too long.
I think we will soon find all the carbs we eat cause far more high cholesterol problems then fat does. I would have lost far more weight but I found I can’t loose weight without a lot of exercise. All I do is get weak and loose muscle.
Actually I think the best diet is a all raw food diet or mostly raw foods. Fruits veggies nuts all raw. But it is hard to get enough protein unless you use a cooked source you have to eat a lot of greens a day. I guess eating bugs would help (G) or raw fish. But a mix of mostly raw and cooked foods is a fantastic diet.
I felt fantastic and had huge amounts of energy on it. since then I have never been sick in over 3 years. Lost 4” off my waist and about 40 pounds. Some of the weight came back but none of the inches. If I start to get sick I just eat lots of raw fruits and veggies and it is gone.
It’s a hard diet if you cant get access to a lot of high quality produce. But it taught me to eat less food and how my body reacts to foods I eat.
It doesn't sound like Atkins so what are you recomending :confused: , and what you describe sounds like a normal diet low in processed foods (why were you eating so many processed foods anyway?). The raw food thing is a bit dodgy and you would put yourself at risk of food poisoning a lot. Futhermore some foods/nutrients are absorbed better when warm or cold but cooked. Looks like you made yourself ill, and on that basis would you really recomend this 'extreme' diet to people? Why couldn't you get enough protein, as a vegetarian I have no problems :confused:?

You suggest that people use their brains and I suggest that anyone on an 'extreme diet' unless specificaly advised by medics or nutritionalists are not using their brains! If you were advised by a medic or nutritionalist you shouldn't advise it for other people.
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by less'go
My oh my, you are very passionate about this subject, Mr. 2-Lap! :)

Sara
:) I work in the health proffesion and I'm really concerned about the reams of bad advice floating around. It seems that many American are confused about what to believe about nutrition. I am very concerned that the UK is going the same way (blindly following America which is daft given that they have more health, exercise and overweight problems than we do in the UK).

The truth is that every post has a little truth in it; simple carbs are bad, high fat is bad, too many/little kcals are bad. But people seem to focus on a single point and make up an extreme diet. If only people would go and read some of the basic nutrition texts then they would realise that the 'normal', 'balanced' diet that is promoted by health professionals makes a lot more sense than any of the 'fad' or 'extreme' diets that they are on.

Its good that people can post what has worked for them, but some people are advising others to do things that are potentialy dangerous (e.g. all carbs are bad or drink one ounce of water for every pound you want to lose - I would be very thirsty and dead in a week!). There needs to be a little quality in what is posted on the site, for the simple reason that some people may follow the advice on it without questioning its credability.
 

stevek

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I had a problem with eating raw in thaqt it made my teeth all go bad (G) well not really it just made all of the problems show up because eating that way really scrubs your teeth. Plus I am lazy about eating and I got to the point iwas eating so little it was becoming a problem. it's a lot of work to eat enough calories when you eat raw.
but I learned what my body felt like when I ate grains. it put me to sleep (G) I would get so tired afterwards.
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
I had a problem with eating raw in thaqt it made my teeth all go bad (G) well not really it just made all of the problems show up because eating that way really scrubs your teeth. Plus I am lazy about eating and I got to the point iwas eating so little it was becoming a problem. it's a lot of work to eat enough calories when you eat raw.
but I learned what my body felt like when I ate grains. it put me to sleep (G) I would get so tired afterwards.
So you wouldn't recomend this approach then and looks like you lost the weight by cutting calories rather than changing the composition of the food you eat.

Tiredness is a common complaint of high carbohydrate meals like sandwiches; there is no need to avoid the carbohydrate in the meal completly, just reduce its glyceamic index by eating other foods at the same time (e.g. a side salad), eating less of the carbohydrate source (1 slice of bread instead of 2) or eating low glyceamic sources of carbs (e.g. whole grain bread). Also regular exercise avoids this problem.

I was just in the canteen and heard an American (not overweight) girl saying she missed the 'sweets' at breakfast and had lost weight as she only had cereals for breakfast in the UK. Again I think this is due to a reduction in calories, but she said that normaly she has syrup, pancakes, french toast, cakes, muffins, etc. for breakfast. Please don't tell me thats the normal American breakfast; if it is now I know why your all afraid of sugar! (But still its hardly a diet that is representative of healthy or balanced!).
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
I had a problem with eating raw in thaqt it made my teeth all go bad (G) well not really it just made all of the problems show up because eating that way really scrubs your teeth. Plus I am lazy about eating and I got to the point iwas eating so little it was becoming a problem. it's a lot of work to eat enough calories when you eat raw.
but I learned what my body felt like when I ate grains. it put me to sleep (G) I would get so tired afterwards.
So you wouldn't recomend this approach then and looks like you lost the weight by cutting calories rather than changing the composition of the food you eat.

Tiredness is a common complaint of high carbohydrate meals like sandwiches; there is no need to avoid the carbohydrate in the meal completly, just reduce its glyceamic index by eating other foods at the same time (e.g. a side salad), eating less of the carbohydrate source (1 slice of bread instead of 2) or eating low glyceamic sources of carbs (e.g. whole grain bread). Also regular exercise avoids this problem.

I was just in the canteen and heard an American (not overweight) girl saying she missed the 'sweets' at breakfast and had lost weight as she only had cereals for breakfast in the UK. Again I think this is due to a reduction in calories, but she said that normaly she has syrup, pancakes, french toast, cakes, muffins, etc. for breakfast. Please don't tell me thats the normal American breakfast; if it is now I know why your all afraid of sugar! (But still its hardly a diet that is representative of healthy or balanced!).
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
I had a problem with eating raw in thaqt it made my teeth all go bad (G) well not really it just made all of the problems show up because eating that way really scrubs your teeth. Plus I am lazy about eating and I got to the point iwas eating so little it was becoming a problem. it's a lot of work to eat enough calories when you eat raw.
but I learned what my body felt like when I ate grains. it put me to sleep (G) I would get so tired afterwards.
So you wouldn't recomend this approach then and looks like you lost the weight by cutting calories rather than changing the composition of the food you eat.

Tiredness is a common complaint of high carbohydrate meals like sandwiches; there is no need to avoid the carbohydrate in the meal completly, just reduce its glyceamic index by eating other foods at the same time (e.g. a side salad), eating less of the carbohydrate source (1 slice of bread instead of 2) or eating low glyceamic sources of carbs (e.g. whole grain bread). Also regular exercise avoids this problem.

I was just in the canteen and heard an American (not overweight) girl saying she missed the 'sweets' at breakfast and had lost weight as she only had cereals for breakfast in the UK. Again I think this is due to a reduction in calories, but she said that normaly she has syrup, pancakes, french toast, cakes, muffins, etc. for breakfast. Please don't tell me thats the normal American breakfast; if it is now I know why your all afraid of sugar! (But still its hardly a diet that is representative of healthy or balanced!).
 

stevek

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Eating raw made me feel fantastic. I had so much energy the first couple of nights I had trouble sleeping. I got over an illness that was taking me 2 to 4 weeks atleast to get over in 2 days. And since then I have not gotten sick. Or if I start to I can get past it without ever getting fully sick. But in this day and age it’s hard to eat that way. A mix of raw and cooked is a great way to live.
But the problem with grains if nothing else they cause tooth decay. People on Adkins report far better checkups. People that eat raw report no teeth problems at all.
But grains are not very nutritious. They are grown for their processed qualities not for their nutrition. It’s hard enough to get enough nutrition in regular foods.
Now I am thinking I am becoming allergic to atleast wheat and corn. If I eat it three or 4 times in a week I will get a cold or atleast start too. Once I can get away with or sometimes I sneeze after I eat it. I miss bread and popcorn but even before I got sick eating it I felt better when I did not eat them.
Eating raw was fantastic and the easiest way to loose weight as you can pretty much eat as much as you want and still loose weight. I never knew how good I could feel till I ate that way.
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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Originally posted by stevek
But the problem with grains if nothing else they cause tooth decay.
They do?

Point taken JAPANic and Less'go. This is officialy my last post on the topic. :)
 

less'go

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Originally posted by 2LAP
They do?

Point taken JAPANic and Less'go. This is officialy my last post on the topic. :)

You're so cute when you're humble...;)
 

Look381i

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Oct 5, 2003
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Originally posted by Blimp
These fanatical devotees of the Atkins diet are nearly as annoying as Amway people, scientologists and telemarketers. There is only one way to lose body fat, and that is to eat less and exercise more. Anyone who doubts that is deluding themselves.

Your final two sentences are probably quite correct. Nonethless, "eating less" is not so easy, and eating "healthy" (as defined in recent years) doesn't always lead to the benefits desired.
Despite riding and racing for years (at average 9-10,000 ks/year) without being able to shed extra pounds, I realized that my basic problem was that my appetite always remained commensurate with my level of exercise. Varous attempts to reduce caloric intake generally, avoid fats and red meat, eat good grains, fruits and veggies, etc. (most of which I have done for years anyway) either left me hungry and craving more food or not losing weight. Believe me, my wife and I have been vigilant about "healthy foods" for years.

In addition to a few extra pounds, I had a long-term, high-triglyceride, low HDL problem, never correctable by diet and exercise. Only medication has had a small effect.

After fifteen years of frustration, I took the example of several friends who had had remarkable success with Atkins. I read the book and started Atkins just over five weeks ago. In that time, i have kept to the strict regimen, with only a couple of minor lapses. I have eaten large servings of eggs, bacon, fish, steak, cheese, etc. (things I ate in very small quantities inthe past) and only one salad and green veggie per day. I have lost 7 kilos of my 10 kilo goal (I started at 82.5). I have maintained my usual cycling routines of about 200+ ks per week, feeling only slightly weak for the first few weeks.

The probable explanation, dictated by the chemistry and physics of the body, is that even though I have eaten densely caloric foods, I have actually consumed fewer calories overall, and fewer than I have expended. The genius in Atkins, in my view, derives from two things: (1) bright line rules: there is no grey area that allows for inadvertent "cheating"; and (2) appetite satisfaction: except at normal meal times I never feel hungry or have cravings. (Atkins' insulin explanation might be the basis. )

Next week, after six full weeks of Atkins, I will have another blood profile done and compare it with the one done just before I started Atkins. If my HDL improves and my triglycerides fall, I might then become a fanatic. Right now, I am just an acolyte.

I believe in science, probably more than most (my wife is an academic and research scientist), but I also believe that science has yet to arrive at a unified theory of nutrition. Because of the volume of anecdotal information developing, Atkins is forcing more research. In the meantime, I am an amateur guinea pig.

I heard as a young student that engineers, applying established scientific theory, had proved that bees cannot fly. In a similar way, science seems to have proved that Atkins cannot work. The problem is that it does for many people.
 

JAPANic

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I am an amateur guinea pig. [quote/]

I think that is the answer for everybody.

Try a few programs and find one that works for you and one that you are happy to stick with....

Be a Guniea pig...
 

davidbod

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Well I can’t resist adding my own experience here. About 20 months ago I decided to get back into serious road cycling to lose weight and get into better cardio shape as I was approaching 40. I was at 235 lbs and BMI of about 34, obese, when I started. Over the first 18 months through diet modification and heavy training I lost 15 lbs and built up to a cycling level between the fastest and second fastest sub-groups within my weekend riding groups. I had definitely hit a plateau though.

Frustrated I decided to go for a major diet change. After much research and second hand experience of friends I decided to try Atkins. First let me say that Atkins is an extreme diet when you are in the induction phase and that like any diet it is not for everyone. Also a lot of the negative comments about the Atkins diet are plain conjecture or based on partial knowledge of what an Atkins diet really is. For example past the induction phase the Atkins diet is not extreme at all and begins to look more and more like a traditional balanced diet, but with a few restrictions.

Science wise we can all agree that to lose weight you must burn more calories than you take in. If that were all that mattered we could eat 2500 calories of Twinkies for breakfast, burn 3000 during the day and lose an appropriate amount of weight. I think we can also all agree that this would not be a good idea.

As far as energy goes our bodies have a natural preference for carbs as the process of converting carbs to glycogen and storing this at the cell level through blood insulin is our most efficient way of obtaining energy. Not surprisingly our bodies least favorite and most expensive way of obtaining energy is through the break down of fats. Another little nasty is that our bodies are very good at storing excess carb intake as fat. This should not be surprising as our bodies have evolved to be this way over time as up until the last century the availability of food was no where near what it is now.

So if you can imagine what happens on a normal balanced diet where you are burning more calories than you consume and most of these calories are coming from carbs, you reach a point after every meal where your body transitions from primary energy of glycogen from carbs to more and more energy produced from fats. This is the whole idea of traditional weight loss, to deplete your glycogen stores so you burn more fat. The problem with this is that your body doesn’t want to burn fat, it wants to store it for emergency use later. This is where your body is signaling you between meals that your hungry and you need to eat more carbs, i.e. carb cravings.

There’s nothing wrong with this method, and plenty of people have lost weight doing this, its just dam difficult to maintain if your BMI is 30+ and you need to sustain it for months on end. It would be much more appropriate for candidates who need to lose 5-10 pounds rather than 50-100+.

So how does Atkins differ? To start off with in the induction phase you limit your daily carb intake to 20 grams. This begins to immediately deplete your glycogen stores so that in a matter of days your body transitions from primary energy from glycogen to primary energy from fat components. Once your body has transitioned and your no longer yo-yoing your blood sugar, the cravings for carbs go away once and do not return, you feel satisfied between meals and you lose weight. There are several advantages to this that even some scientifically trained people still refuse to believe:

1.Because it costs your body more energy to convert fats to useable energy, you lose more energy (i.e. weight) burning the equivalent calories of fats vs. carbs.
2. Burning nearly exclusively fat components triggers signals in your body to suppress hunger.
3. The processes within your body that allow it to use fat components as energy reduce bad cholesterol.
4. If you are losing weight then every gram of fat that you intake into your diet is being converted and burned and then some.

The reality is I have lost 20 additional pounds in the last 2 months alone and I no longer get dropped by the fastest group on my weekend ride. I was very strict the first 2 weeks during induction and did not ride because of my low carb intake. The 3rd through 5th weeks I did some minor carb loading on Thursday and Friday before my usual Saturday ride and had no problems, but didn’t lose as much weight (I was afraid of bonking). The last several weeks I have gone into my Saturday rides with no extra carbs except for half water half sports drink in my bottles. These rides were around 52, 63 and 46 miles and averaged between 19.5 and 21.2. My heart rate data also indicated that I was above 85% max for more than 2/3 of the ride time in each case (this is normal for me). The point here is that I didn’t come close to bonking with virtually 0 carbs and at a level where I spent 2/3 of the ride time at or very near lactate threshold. This would completely seem to contradict the long-standing belief that you would bonk without having carbs during such efforts.

Take this as you will. All I can say is I understand the science behind it and in reality it has worked for me. In fact the items I have eliminated from my diet do not seem extreme in any way. Apart from more egg and bacon/sausage breakfasts my diet is mostly salads, non-root vegetables and lean proteins for lunch and dinner. The only items that worried me to eliminate them from my diet were milk (calcium) and juices (vitamin C). I supplement for these as needed depending on my daily intake.

One other point is that you can go to the Atkins website and research to learn all about the diet and it won’t cost you a penny, it’s completely free.
 

DurangoKid

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davebod,

I've been majorly flamed for praising Atkins on this forum. Thanks for the posting. I am a former couch potato who lost 40 lbs through restricting carb intake as directed by Atkins. It works for me. And so does cycling. Much of what people know about nutrition has been invented by agribusiness corporations and the revolving door agencies that are supposed to regulate them. The feedstocks for high carb foods are cheap and the profits are enormous. The science supports low carb diets. Is it any wonder these institutions push diets that cause disease when they are the same entities that make their fortunes from treating the victims? And then they have the gall to blame the victims of the media blitz that tells them to eat carbs and fear fats. In some neighborhoods one can walk to a McDonald's but you have to drive to a store that sells whole foods. These are the priorities set by the people who rule society. So, for me cycling and eating low carb whole foods is a revolutionary act. My fitness speaks for itself.
 

Shazabelle

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Sep 11, 2003
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Originally posted by rsalazar
I need to lose weight, a lot. But I keep hearing that if I want to lose weight, I need to stay off the carbs. But now that i am into cycling, I read the articles and they mention that I need carbs.
There's nothing wrong with the carbs themselves carbohydrates are a great source of energy and will fill you up, it's what you do with them and what you serve them with that can make them "bad". Potatoes, pasta, rice are all really good low in fat foods, it's when you fry the potatoes or smother the pasta in a creamy sauce that they start to be loaded with calories and fat. Try and stick to plain potatoes, baked, boiled, mashed - pasta in tomato based sauces, with lots of vegetables - you can use lots of spices and herbs to make things nice and tasty, try to steer clear from using cream or cheese to add flavour cause that'll up the fat & calorie content. High fibre high carb is the way to go I reckon ! Best of luck with it :)
 

stevek

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Sep 27, 2003
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Potatoes and grains don't have many calories? the problem with grains is they are empty calories. the whole low fat idea was a marking ply and had nothing based on real facts. but when you mix fat and carbs you have problems. by themselves they are far better.
but you want to be filled eat fat it will keep you full far longer then any carbs ever will. some poeple on a low carb diet are too full to eat enough food.
myself I now don't worry much about fat but I don't eat grains very often. but I do eat a lot of fruits for them. my body does not seem to get enough energy on fat.
if people jsut cut out or cut way down on grains and sugar we would see a huge benifit overal in health.
fat has been a human food all along complex carbs such as grains are a new thing and they have shown the problems they cause like tooth decay and other medical conditions that did not show up before humans became farmers.
 

Shazabelle

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Sep 11, 2003
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Originally posted by stevek
fat has been a human food all along complex carbs such as grains are a new thing and they have shown the problems they cause like tooth decay and other medical conditions that did not show up before humans became farmers.
I can't believe you think grains are bad ! look at the asian population who live mostly on rice ?! it's only when they start eating western food that they start getting our diseases and problems.
 
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