Weight Loss help

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by rsalazar, Jul 12, 2003.

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  1. stevek

    stevek New Member

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    The Asian people eat a lot of veggies and fruits and fresh meats and such. The food is not processed and full of garbage. Plus they have eaten it for a very long time. Plus they work harder and take better care of themselves. The grains we have in the us are grown for what they can do when cooked not for the nutritional content.
    Just look at a label and see how little is there per calorie. Grains are cheep and plentiful.
    Hell no animal in the world eat grains in the wild. Some eat seeds but not grains.
    If we eat grains they need to be as whole as possible.
    Even our beloved food pyramid was concocted not by doctors but by corporations. But doc’s now follow it like gospel.
    We have been scammed by marketing to think fat is evil and grains are fantastic. Well if the truth comes out we may see a different light.
    I am not saying I think a real low carb diet is ideal. Just one cutting out the grains and sugars we eat.
     


  2. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid New Member

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    Cutting out the grains and sugars IS the low carb diet.
     
  3. stevek

    stevek New Member

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    depends on the version. under about 100 carbs is a low carb diet. but eating a lot of regular fruit is not on most of the really low carb diet plans.
     
  4. davidbod

    davidbod New Member

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    Try this as an example lunch or dinner.

    Option 1:
    12 Asparagus spears
    1 cup of cooked green beans
    1 cup of cooked broccoli
    8oz of lean turkey breast

    Option 2:
    1/2 cup cooked white rice
    1/2 cup of cooked white potato
    1/2 cup of cooked pasta
    8oz of lean turkey breast

    First notice that option 1 has a much higher quantity of food and is going to fill you up more. There is nothing added for flavor to either of these meals. Now lets count the grams:

    Option Fiber Net-Carbs Fat Protien Calories
    1 11.4g 14.0g 3.6g 90.6g 487
    2 3.0g 54.4g 2.8g 85.8g 623

    Now notice that the fat and protien content for both meals are actually very similar while the fiber, net-carbs and calories are quite different. Anything we do to prepare the food for either option to make it more pallatable is going to add to the net-carbs, fat or both (and the calories).

    So if you were trying to lose weight, or for that matter just eat healthier which meal looks better? Does this tell you anything about the miss-information on the Atkins diet? Where is the fat? Oh, it's higher in fiber too?

    Now the story doesn't end here either. The rice, potato and pasta are simple carbs and break down in our bodies very rapidy to glycogen with very little energy loss. This rapid rise in glycogen unless needed immediately to replenish stores then triggers our bodies to go into fat storing mode. If your trying to lose weight this is exactly what you don't want going on in your body.

    Remember we are talking about people who are already fat. If your not fat and your glycogen stores are low due to exercise and can use all the carbs in option 2 without putting your body into fat storing mode then your fine. You would still be better off eating complex carbs like whole wheat pasta and grains which require longer time and more energy to convert to glycogen though.

    The bottom line is if your a seasoned racer with a very low body fat percentage and you have just completed a serious glycogen depleting effort, you can and maybe even should eat the simple carbs to begin immediate glycogen store replensishing. If your BMI is in the high 20s+ and your trying to lose weight then you should absolutley stay away from them.
     
  5. rickstrong

    rickstrong New Member

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    Carbs are fine, you don't have to give up anything. You just need to balance and limit your intake and up your biking. As a veteran of many diets and exercise regimens I found that Weight Watchers and biking worked best for me. WW is balanced, flexible, uses normal foods (you don't have to buy expensive prepared dishes) and lets you find the right mix of carbs, protein, etc for your metabolism...you can skew the mix a bit towards one or the other to find your optimum combination. No prohibitions WRT food groups, desserts, etc - you just have to keep track of what you're doing and stay within the limits. (But of course learning moderation can be the hard part!)

    I'm not an employee, but a satisfied end-user. I was in almost the same position as you a few years ago, lost almost 40 lbs and did my first century and loved it a little more than a year ago. You can't beat the combination of balanced and moderate eating and regular aerobic exercise.
     
  6. veith

    veith New Member

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    Low carb diets are not a good idea for athletes or those that exercise regularly. Balanced diets that are low in fat work best for me. I recently lost 25 pounds on a diet that was composed roughly of 2200 calories per day that was 65% carbs, 20% fat and 15% protein. I rode my bike regularly. Combining exercise and sensible calorie control is the best approach. Suggest you compute your daily caloric needs and then keep a log to roughly record your daily intake. There are some good computer programs, such as CalorieKing (Calorieking.com) that help and are easy to use. Diet logging is a bit laborious, but to the motivated it is a great way to manage your diet and get daily feedback as to how you are doing against your goals. If you consume fewer calories than you expend, overtime you will lose weight. The best pace is about 1-2 pounds of weight loss per week, on average. It is a slow process, but it works. Suggest you read Sports Nutrition Guidebook by Nancy Clark. Ms. Clark is a sports nutritionist who sticks pretty much to common nutritional wisdom.
     
  7. David Wallach

    David Wallach New Member

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    I think the point is being missed here. He didnt ask how to maintain his weight, or how to do an iso-caloric diet, as he has made repectable losses with that already.

    You want to break through a plateau.

    A CKG will do that for you, without doubt, but Ketogenic diets require a no bull**** approach to cheating. You can't. You cheat, you derail the whole process and in so doing you will certainly feel awful. A body that has little or no glycogen stored in muscle or liver that bounces out of ketosis every time you cheat will be a weak and lethargic body. The process of yo-yo'ing in and out of ketosis will also mess with you mental faculties in a big way: you will notice a marked change in you problem solving ability, which is bad for just about any profession.... unless of course you work for the GOP ;-)

    The other option that allows for some lapses in judgement and still produces very positive results is with a moderate carb diet that includes NO sucrose or fructose (yes, fruit is the devil when it comes to how insulin effects fat storage) is to partition your carbs directly to muscle tissue rather than to adipose tissue. Impossible you say?!? BAH, you read too much readers digest diet plans and not enough nutrition information. (R+)LIPOIC ACID will do just that... at approximately 30mg for every 100gm of carbs ingested, it will allow your muscles to absorb many times the average amount of glucose, where it can be used up efficiently for work.

    So.... to make a long story short: CKG diets are fantastic, but if you dont have the deadication, don't bother, you will not be making the most efficient use of your time. If you want an easier, and very efficient method, get a well tested R-ALA supplement and use it before meals with Biotin (500 mcg/per 100mg of Lipoic acid). Do not use R-ALA supps that do not contain Biotin, as Lipoic acid depletes vitaminB storage. Then, once you have reached your goal weight/LBM-BF%, go back to a healthy Iso-caloric regimen that is fun to eat.

    any questions, feel free to ask, It makes me feel like I am actually using all that money I spent on college... ;-)

    regards,

    David
     
  8. OHsingltrakr

    OHsingltrakr New Member

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    After a lot of reading about a lot diets for a several months I set out on a plan 2 years ago to lose about 100lbs. Like so many things in life, I felt many of the so-called fad diets had some generally good ideas they were based on. These fads really tend to focus on their one big idea but in general similar trends are repeated over and over looking at several diets. These are over an overall colorie reduction to a sensible amount for your body and activity level, a focus on frequently eating small amounts of quality fats, proteins and carbs in a good balance to keep insulin levels low, stave off hunger and the binging that follows, and to provide good nutrition. Throw in some regular exercise and it sounds a lot like what your mother and your doctor has been telling you all along, regardless of what the infomercial of the week is trying to sell you. I stuck to a lot of fat free dairy, lean turkey and fish and plant fats combined with lots and lots of produce. I kept myself limited to two servings of high quality carb daily, one morning and one for lunch. I ate approximately 1500 calories a day for almost a year and averaged a weight loss of about 2 lbs. a week on average, dropping my weight from 267 to about 170 and dropped my cholesterol quite a bit to a well balanced total lipid count of 136 last tested. The first four months were hard and I often felt tired but my body adapted, my physical condition improved and cycling really improved from neighborhood rides only to banging out centuries and long days on the mountain bike no problem. I really felt the combination of the low glycemic eating combined with calorie reduction was a winning combination, having struggled with weight my entire life. I'm in my 30's now. The down side is all those new clothes you'll have to buy and of course you'll need at least two much better bicycles than you have now. The fad diet guys never mentioned these hidden costs. Jokes aside it seems like a lot of these diets had some common sense behind them in part, but it gets lost in all the marketing trying to sell you a bunch of crap to count calories, and plan meals that you could accomplish with a notebook, a scale, both for you and one in the kitchen for measuring, and some cookbooks from the library. Anyway, good luck to everyone in their weight loss endeavours!
     
  9. davidbod

    davidbod New Member

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    See the following links:

    http://www.ketosis-ketoacidosis-difference.com/
    http://www.i-sis.org.uk/isisnews/i-sisnews9-25.php

    The first one is on ketosis and the second one explains some new research on how ketones are thought to protect neurons from the process that induces Parkinson's and limit the accumulation of proteins in the brain that happens to Alzheimer's patients.

    The research shows that 90% of our tissue will happily fuel itself on ketones and that ketosis is a natural physiological process that each one of us enters as we sleep overnight when food intake is cut off.

    The Yo-Yo'ing I'm talking about is going from low to high blood sugar after a high carbo (particualrly simple carbo) loaded meal which triggers your body to go into fat storing mode due to the excess glycogen. By the way when you are in ketosis and your body has produced excess ketone bodies that it can't immediately use as energy, they get flushed out into your urine. This is a huge difference than the other end of the spectrum where excess glycogen is being stored as fat.

    The research also shows that when you eat carbs while you are in ketosis you have a much more controlled insulin response to the carbs and the combination of ketone bodies and insulin improve brain and heart efficiency. The two processes of burning fat and glycogen can and do occur simultaneously in the body, there is no yo-yo effect between the 2.

    Whether you do low carb or moderate carb, once you have reached ketosis, its just a matter of varying degrees of how much your body is fueling itself on glycogen vs ketones. As long as you stay away from the side of the process that generates excess glycogen to trigger your fat storing your OK. Its just a matter of how much weight you want to lose over a given time period and whether you will feel better on a low or moderate carb diet.
     
  10. mjrodney

    mjrodney New Member

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    Fourteen pages of responses.....wow!

    What can I add?

    Only what works for me.

    I find when I diet, I reach a plateau where weight loss stops.

    My body has determined that I am starving to death and it begins to horde those calories for all it is worth.

    This plateau is quickly broken by simply eating a bit more. Not a lot, but just a few more carbs. A half slice of bread. A cracker or two. Just enough to convince my brain that total starvation is not in the cards.

    Sure enough, the weight loss continues.

    Ok, I have achieved my goal.

    Now, who the hell ate my french fries?
     
  11. Look381i

    Look381i New Member

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    --That's one of the beauties of Atkins. Your body never thinks it's starving because you can eat plenty of calories. It just metabolozes them and your own fat rather than trying to store or hoard fat.
     
  12. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    And I guess that you know this from using your intra cellular telescope or your vast reading of the scientific papers (or from the Atkins material). ;)

    Opps, broke my self imposed posting ban on this thread :( There has been some rubbish (with only a little sense since my last post on this topic) and with no one oposing it (i.e. a very bias thread)

    PS. Lots of people have posted that Atkins is low calorie; so who do we believe Look381i :confused: Don't forget (as many Atkins users posting on this site seem too) that the Atkins has a number of phases and the maintenance phase alows quite a lot of carbs (to quote another poster in this thread '40% of the calories from carbs'). I don't think that even the Atkins Company believes that carbohydrates are as bad as they allow Atkins fans to believe!
     
  13. HellonWheels

    HellonWheels New Member

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    Carbs are GOOD for you, and vital if you do aerobics, esp. cycling. As someone who has bonked severa; times due to forgetting to take in enough carbs, I can attest to that.

    Furthermore, if I went on ATkins I'd be throwing up and diahhreaing all the time. My body cannot metabolize large amts of fat in foods...once I overeat my fat limit for the day, I get really sick. For my IBS and possible lipase definciency I need to take in a lot of complex carbs and limit fat to no more than 20% a day.
     
  14. Look381i

    Look381i New Member

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    --I thought I had composed and sent a detailed reply to this earlier, but I don't see it. I tried to make three main points:

    (1) Those who don't read Atkins' book carefully (or at all) often rely on inaccurate characterizations of what he advocates. He does not advocate a no-carb or extreme-low-carb life long diet. Only the early stages are heavily restricted. He does advocate healthy carbs, especially ones that do not induce strong insulin uptake (often described as having a low glycemic load).

    (2) I eat all the calories I want, from densely caloric foods (eggs, meat, cheese, cream). Perhaps I do take in fewer than on my long-time diet of pastas, veggies, milk, bread products and fruit but I doubt it. I'd be very surprised if my body thinks it is starving.

    (3) My story is admittedly just another anecdote, one of several in my own friendship circle, but they do confirm that Atkins provides a remarkably easy and effective way to lose fatty weight. Anecdotal evidence such as mine has apparently triggered some research on the subject that supports Atkins ideas. A recent news story alludes to some: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/10/14/lowcarb.mystery.ap/index.html

    As I said in an earlier post, the results are counterintuitive. They do not conform to current mainstream scientific thinking. Atkins' explanations (re fat burning, insulin dependency, etc.) provide hypotheses that should be subjected to rigorous testing. In the meantime, I'll continue to ride centuries on a breakfast of bacon & eggs and water and a couple of low carb Atkins or Endulge bars along the way, and lose as much weight as I choose (5 pounds to go, perhaps another two or three weeks) before finding a maintenance diet that includes more carbs.
     
  15. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Another post by me, sorry :(
    Sorry, it does seem that you have a better understanding than some other Atkin users that say 'all carbs are bad'. What a shock they will have when they have to start introducing them in other phases of Atkins!
    Most people have a problem with the first phase which is very 'unhealthy'. I'm not so sure how the 'healthy carbs' recomendation is different from mainstream 'healthy' eatting recomendations. I think what often takes people by surprise is by how different the 'carbs' they eat are different from the 'healthy carbs' (particularly when I heared one american say - I miss pankcakes and syrup for breakfast! in the canteen last week).
    Are you not concerned about the health risks of these foods as well or feel that you are missing out on health benefits by cutting out on fruit and veg? You must be eating fewer calories if you are losing weight.
    Well done, on the weight loss. Other anecdotal evidence has also trigered concern, so I don't think its quite plain sailing for the moment.
    And please keep us updated and good luck; I think you would be surprised about the scientific literature on the topic (Atkins isn't that way out, just that it has some practices (particularly in the early phases that science would suggest are dangerous/not advantagous to deiters/health).
     
  16. Ellenz

    Ellenz New Member

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  17. Look381i

    Look381i New Member

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  18. Ellenz

    Ellenz New Member

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    Information about Carb intake.
    As Posted on the http://www.eload.net/eload.htm site.
    The ideal sports drink supplies optimum amounts, and type, of sugar (carbohydrate, or "CHO"). Why? Because sugar supplies much of the energy required to train and compete. Athletes can burn between 40-150 grams of carbohydrate per hour, depending on ambient temperature, sport, gender, body size, exercise intensity and many other factors. Our bodies do not store a lot of carbohydrate, so it is easy to deplete our carbohydrate reserves (carbohydrate is stored as glycogen, located in our muscles and liver). On average, our muscle cells store about 325 grams and our livers store about 110 grams of glycogen (18). Since each gram of carbohydrate has 4 Calories, this translates to about 1750 Calories - NOT MUCH! As these glycogen reserves start to deplete, which they can do within as little as 1-2 hours of strenuous exercise, blood sugar can start to fall (19), leading to several performance related problems including lack of energy, headache, dizziness and the dreaded "bonking" or "hitting the wall" (20, 21, 22). However, there is a caveat, namely that research has clearly shown that the higher the carbohydrate content of a drink, the slower its' emptying out of the stomach, and the more its' potential for causing stomach cramps and nausea (23). Combine this with the fact that when hot and sweaty, drinks that are too sweet can also promote nausea by sole virtue of their taste i.e. too syrupy, leaving a "pasty" mouth feel; therefore, a drink with too much carbohydrate can actually be detrimental to performance for many reasons. It turns out that the amount of carbohydrate for optimal gastric emptying lies between 4-8%, or 40-80 grams per liter (22, 24, 25, 26, 27). However, in practice, drinks with carbohydrate content above 5-6% taste too sweet and syrupy when performing in the heat, contributing to nausea. In fact, one study defined this further by concluding that a 5.5% carbohydrate solution was optimal (28). Drinking a drink that is too sweet may be why you are diluting your current sports drink beyond the mixing instructions on the label. This dilution phenomenon compounds electrolyte problems even further, because now you are ingesting an even lower amount of electrolyte per liter of fluid. Therefore, a practical optimal range for carbohydrate is probably up to 6%, or 60 grams/liter, resulting in maximal gastric emptying, intestinal absorption, taste and subsequent fueling, and minimal "nausea factor" and "pasty" mouth feel. e loadTM weighs in at an optimal 5.4% carbohydrate. By comparison, fruit juices and cola drinks have between 10-15% carbohydrates (100-150 grams/liter), and some of today's traditional sports drinks have up to 8% (80 grams/litre) carbohydrate content!
     
  19. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Please check out the forum rules about advertising a product; as for selling the benefits of carbs as you will see from this thread there seem to be two types of people 1) those on Atkins and 2) those that are not. If you read over some of the last posts you will see my views, I think you are fighting a loseing battle.
     
  20. Look381i

    Look381i New Member

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    --This seems to be true only for those who are carb and sugar reliant. I have discovered that once my body adjusted to lipolysis or ketosis (fat-burning) as opposed to sugar or carb burning, I don't have to worry about the bonk, so long as I have either eaten sufficient fat and protein or have extra body fat stores to draw on. I eat virtually no carbs at this point and lack of endurance is not an issue. If I lack anything, and I am not sure that I do, it might be my overdrive gear for exceptionally long maximum efforts (at or near VO2max).
     
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