Weight Loss help

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by rsalazar, Jul 12, 2003.

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  1. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Carbohydrates are broken down enzymatically into glucose, then stored as glycogen in the muscles and liver. So carbs do wind up as glycogen, before they are glommed together (polymerised for the technically minded).
     


  2. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Fat is metabolised directly. The human body can convert carbs into fat, but then metabolises the fat directly, not through converting it back to carbohydrates.
     
  3. 2WheelsGood

    2WheelsGood New Member

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    Now I'm really scratching my head... I already said that... unless you're just agreeing.
     
  4. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid New Member

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    Did I say carb? I meant fat. Oops.
     
  5. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Originally posted by DurangoKid
    The important thing to remember is that insulin will direct the body to utilize carbs first. The excess fat and carbs will be squirreled away as fat. The amount of available carb must be sufficiently low before the body starts burning fat as fuel. Thus, in a diet too high in carbs, the body never gets around to using much of the available fat as fuel.

    >>If you have a calorie defocit you will lose weight irrespective of where the calories are from (i.e. carbohydrate, fat or protein). If you expend more calories than you take in you will lose weight and there won't be an issue of 'excess fat and carbs'!!!

    >>Given that carbohydrate is very important during all exercise and alows you to maintain a higher workload than fat (i.e. during glycogen depletion); exercise in a non-glycogen depleted state allows for the largest energy expendature and largest potential for a calorie defocite to be formed.

    >>If you are not losing weight it is neither about the excess fat or carbohydrate in the diet, rather excess calorie intake and insucficent calorie expendature.

    >>Why not just eat a balanced diet and control calorie expendature to lose weight and maintain exercise performance? This seems the most acceptable, sensible and safest approach to me.

    Some small amounts of fat will always be used for other purposes. The mistake is to think it is the fault of the fats when actually the carb burning metabolic path has put the fat burning path on hold.

    >>The maximum rate of fat oxidation is acheived at relativly low levels of exercise and maintained through the range of intensities to maximal aerobic exercise. Although carbohydrate metabolism increases at higher intensities; neither does fat metabolism decrease or become altered as a result of the increased fat metabolism. Carb metabolism doesn't put fat metabolism on hold, thats impossible!

    For example, a diet rich in French fries and shakes will make you fat faster than a diet that includes plain McDonald’s cheeseburgers without the bun and ketchup, all other things being equal.

    >>There will be no difference in weight loss or weight gain between the two diets if they contain the same amount of calories. In weight control energy balance rather than macronutrient content that is most important!!!

    Chronically high levels of carb can induce a condition called insulin resistance. This is the prelude to type II diabetes. You don’t have to be obese to be diabetic.

    >>Eating a diet high in fat will lead to CHD and atherosclerosis; these are the largest killers in the western world (more so than diabetes)!!!! Development of CHD is seen in children as young as 3 (from autopsy studies), even though symptoms don't apper until latter life. A balanced diet with an emphesis on unrefined carbohydrates (i.e. limited intake of sweets, table sugars, etc) helps avoid diabetes by maintaining insulin sensitivity (I can get the reference if you want). No dietition would recomend a diet so high in carbohydrate/simple carbohydrates and low enough in fat that would induce such a condition. This type of diabetes is also linked to smoking, lack of exercise, obesity, drinking, etc. with diet only playing a small (although important) part.

    By the way, McDonald’s has some of the safest hamburger on the planet. They are meticulous about testing for e. coli. Read “Fast Food Nation”, if you have the stomach for it.

    >>Well lets all go eat McDonalds!!!! I'm a bit more worried about atherosclerosis than e-coli. Although it may be the 'safest hamburger, I can think of 1000's of 'safer' choices than hamburgers. I recomend that you give up your trips to McDonalds for your health and cycling performance!!!

    Here’s a hint for the punctuationally challenged. Type your posting with a word processor and get it right there before pasting it into the window on the website. MS Word checks for grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

    >>Most people post for fun and some don't even have English as their first language, hope you don't mind but I'll keep posting 'off the top of my head'.
     
  6. M2cycler

    M2cycler New Member

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    "The important thing to remember is that insulin will direct the body to utilize carbs first. The excess fat and carbs will be squirreled away as fat. The amount of available carb must be sufficiently low before the body starts burning fat as fuel. Thus, in a diet too high in carbs, the body never gets around to using much of the available fat as fuel."

    i thought the ratio of glycogen to fat utilised depended on the intensity of the exercise. aerobic vs anaerobic.

    a 100m sprint would use all glycogen but a marathon effort would use a fair proportion of fat.
     
  7. M2cycler

    M2cycler New Member

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    speaking of marathons, werent you contender in ur hey day ;-)
     
  8. art_babe

    art_babe New Member

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    Interesting debate.

    To make a long story short: growing up, i was a chunky and "athletically-challenged" kid. Presently, however, i have competed in a triathlon, got into a serious cycling accident (and destroyed an ancient Miele), and am, in general, a babe.

    i lost a lot of weight by doing the basics: cutting out processed, ****ty foods, exercising, and drinking lots and lots of water. i've kept my weight the same for the past 6 years (well, apart from that one year abroad in Scotland), by watching what i eat and exercising.

    i've watched friends and family, however, gain the weight back after being on the Atkins diet.

    Moral of my story: diets don't work; you must change your lifestyle. Keep it simple - **** fads, gizmos, and magic pills. **** McDonalds too.
     
  9. art_babe

    art_babe New Member

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    woah, you can't swear on this thing?

    what the **** is that bull****?
     
  10. marion

    marion New Member

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    LOOK >.< it does and it has --?/+=_)(*&^%$#@! as well is that better? Hope your having a nice day..............................

     
  11. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Just come accross a few good articles that people may want to check out on the health risks and carbohydrates.

    6 papers in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition V76-1 (Supplement) July 2002

    In short, carbohydrates are required for heath and exercise (they are very important) however diets with a high glyceamic load (glyceamic index x carbohydrate amount) have been linked to health probems. It appears that these concerns are only real for people who are sedentary, overweight or genetically suceptable.

    There is little evidence that actualy suggests that high glyceamic carbohydrates are bad and even less evidence of interventions of low glyceamic diets are better. There is some evidence in diseased people that low glyceamic index carbohydrate diets may imporve the diseased state (diabetes, insulin resistance, glucose intolerance, etc).

    Many health organisations including the American diabetes association, American Heart Association and American Diabetic Association don't even recognise a role for GI in disease prevention or treatmen (as of 2002). There is insufficent evidence for any organisation, government or 'fad' diet book to recomend a low GI diet and even less eveidence for low carbohydrate/high fat/high protein diets.

    Balance and healthy choices remain order of the day.
     
  12. fuelrider

    fuelrider New Member

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    This is interesting dialogue. But, let me strand someone on an island for 60 days and I bet we can solve any insulin resistance problem. How can anyone endurance train without carbs? 50 carbs a day? I don't care how much fat you have stored, you would totally bonk. Am I wrong?
     
  13. HellonWheels

    HellonWheels New Member

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    Nope, you are 100% correct. Although I do not at all believe in the high fat/low carb thing, I dont tend to eat as many simple carbs because I had to reduce fat in my diet for health reasons (my IBS). I found that by reducing fats I automatically cut out a lot of carbs (pastries, etc). And I have bonked three times in the last couple yrs since I went back to cycling and stationary bike training. Bonking is NO fun! I have to consciously make an effort to eat enougb carbs because I work out intensly most days of the week.
     
  14. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Yes, 'bonking' occurs when your body runs out of carbs so for exercise (particularly at moderate to high intensities) carbohydrates are essential!!!

    It is interesting that by avoiding fatty foods you also managed to cut out many simple sugars (i.e. from pastries). If you are eating less fat, you will naturaly eat more carbohydrate or protein as alternatives within your diet.

    My advice to you is to make sure that you eat more complex carbs, so restoring your glycogen levels after every training session. During training sessions, make sure that you consume some carbs to prevent getting the bonk while exercising. With a correct nutritional regime there is no reason why you should get the bonk, infact the bonk should act as a message that you are doing something wrong (i.e. not eating enough carbohydrates).

    High fat/low fat diets increase the likely hood of 'bonking' as they don't allow your glycogen levels to be restored between training sessions.
     
  15. HellonWheels

    HellonWheels New Member

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    I agree...and yes I do compensate by eating more complex carbs, mostly whole grain things like whole wheat breadm whole wheat pasta, etc. Yet I find when I did bonk, eating a few cookies or something similar that is low fat yet high carb, I got over the bonking in about 15 mins or so. Its horrible though to get it--disoriented, dizzy, confused, fatigued, etc I tend to do my stationary bike at high intensity for 75 mins (taking a short break every 25 mins)...I used to do it 6x/wk and the bonking was worse then. Now its only 3-4 days a wk
     
  16. Harrow

    Harrow New Member

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    I don't know about elsewhere, but here in Australia the word 'Bonk' is slang for a universally popular activity.

    Makes these message quite funny in many instances.

    Regards,
    Harrow. :p
     
  17. JAPANic

    JAPANic New Member

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    If you have a high metabolism from training often, then you can get away with eating as much fat as you like.

    If you are just starting out riding and are overweight you have to have a different approach. You are overweight due to poor metabolism (lack of exercise) and over eating.

    I am overweight and have only been riding 2 months now. I'm 91 kg and want to get down to 75. (Was 68 b4 I got married).

    How will I do it....

    Tonight I will make an excel file with my training and weight goals.

    Till I get the metabolism winning the war,....

    I will drink more water... much more....
    I will stop eating fats.
    I will stop eating bread.
    I will stop drinking alcohol.
    I will stop using sugar.
    I will exercise as much as I can.
    I will rest as much as I can.
    More salads. (Lunches)
    More vegetables. (Dinner)
    More fruit. (Breakfast)
    Protein at night 3 hours before bed only.... some fish or chicken with little oil.

    As my fitness improves, and my weight is dropping, I will be able to eat a few more of the foods that had made me fat....

    I want to be at a stage where I need to eat a lot of food to stop me from losing weight.

    I used to go to school with an Olympic swimmer (short distances) She was slim and she could down a few Big Mc's easliy and not gain any weight.

    When she retired she ballooned out. It took her a while to stop eating.....

    Get your metabolism up and keep it up for ever.....

    I'll let you know how I'm going over the next few weeks so please post here to ask me, and I'll subscribe to the responses.

    Come on... help me.... I have 2 races in October & November and I'm carrying a bit too much luggage....
     
  18. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Originally posted by JAPANic
    If you have a high metabolism from training often, then you can get away with eating as much fat as you like.

    >> There still needs to be some balance in terms of calories and eating 'as much fat as you can' is always going to be bad for your health in terms of CHD.

    If you are just starting out riding and are overweight you have to have a different approach. You are overweight due to poor metabolism (lack of exercise) and over eating.

    >> People are always (apart from some clinical conditions) overweight because they don't use enough energy (i.e. have a low metabolism via lack of activity) and eat too much energy. Starting riding is a great way to begin burining more calories and you will lose weight as long as you don't increase the energy you consume in response to the increased activity.

    I am overweight and have only been riding 2 months now. I'm 91 kg and want to get down to 75. (Was 68 b4 I got married).

    How will I do it....

    Tonight I will make an excel file with my training and weight goals.

    Till I get the metabolism winning the war,....

    I will drink more water... much more....
    I will stop eating fats.
    I will stop eating bread.
    I will stop drinking alcohol.
    I will stop using sugar.
    I will exercise as much as I can.
    I will rest as much as I can.
    More salads. (Lunches)
    More vegetables. (Dinner)
    More fruit. (Breakfast)
    Protein at night 3 hours before bed only.... some fish or chicken with little oil.

    >> Just make healthy choices and keep counting those calories! For people who have gained weight over a long period its important that they make 'lifestyle' changes, which incorporate diet and exercise.

    As my fitness improves, and my weight is dropping, I will be able to eat a few more of the foods that had made me fat....

    I want to be at a stage where I need to eat a lot of food to stop me from losing weight.

    I used to go to school with an Olympic swimmer (short distances) She was slim and she could down a few Big Mc's easliy and not gain any weight.

    >> You just need to be very active to acheive this; 2 hours steady on a bike might use 1000 kcals or more, thats almost 2 big mac burgers!!!

    When she retired she ballooned out. It took her a while to stop eating.....

    >> She wasn't balancing expendature with intake, she stopped exercising yet kept eating.

    Get your metabolism up and keep it up for ever.....

    I'll let you know how I'm going over the next few weeks so please post here to ask me, and I'll subscribe to the responses.

    Come on... help me.... I have 2 races in October & November and I'm carrying a bit too much luggage....

    >> Why not start a new thread 'Project Get Fit', should make interesting reading.
     
  19. SCOOBA STEVE

    SCOOBA STEVE New Member

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    YOU DONT NEED CARBS. I LOST 40 POUNDS ON THE ATKINS DIET AND STILL TRAINED AND RACED FINE. CARBS KILL
     
  20. JAPANic

    JAPANic New Member

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    One or the other....

    Personally, I did the 'Fit For Life' program about 7 years ago, and lost weight quickly. The low fat diet, was good for me.

    The Atkins diet may be good if you already have a high metabolism, but doing a high carb diet first helps fire the metabolism..



    If you stop eating carbs you will (should) lose weight.
    If you stop eating fat you will (should) lose weight.
    If you stop eating protein you will (should) lose weight.

    A few good examples on why carbs may be better....

    Ever see a horse eat a boiled egg or steaks & sausages?
    Which horse would you bet on in a race?
    One who ate oats or one who ate steaks?

    Gorillas..... 10 time more powerful than a man.
    Do they eat high fat diets?

    All carnivorous animals eat herbivores?
    Why?
    They are healthier to eat. They have all the good vitamins.

    Tell me one carnivorous animal that has good stamina?

    Milk is for cows. Otherwise women would have been given udders.


    I think the secret to having a happy eating life is to have a very fast metabolism...

    I also read the books on eating for your blood types. There seems to be some sense to this as well....

    If you follow everybodies advice, you will end up not being able to eat anything...
     
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