weight loss

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by paul, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. paul

    paul Guest

    Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without falling
    off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition, but to
    lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I will need to
    eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try and rescue my
    heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu food alone
    hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online guides for this
    sort of thing, or good books that people have tried. Any guidlines would
    be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')

    TiA
    --
    ..paul

    If at first you don't succeed...
    Skydiving is probably not the sport for you.
     
    Tags:


  2. Doki

    Doki Guest

    paul wrote:
    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without
    > falling off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition,
    > but to lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I
    > will need to eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try
    > and rescue my heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu
    > food alone hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online
    > guides for this sort of thing, or good books that people have tried.
    > Any guidlines would be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')


    Riding your bike a bit more and eating a bit less should do it. IME, it's
    better to eat something different rather than less. All I've done to lose
    weight steadily is buy stuff that's got less fat in it, rather than
    specifically low fat, avoiding all the stuff that tastes like terror. And
    avoided eating lots of biscuits / having lots of sugar in my tea. I just
    look at whatever the fat is per / 100g and try and keep it low - stuff like
    curry sauces often vary between 20% and 3 or 4%, which is a pretty big
    difference.
     
  3. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    paul wrote:

    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without falling
    > off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition, but to
    > lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I will need to
    > eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try and rescue my
    > heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu food alone
    > hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online guides for this
    > sort of thing, or good books that people have tried. Any guidlines would
    > be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')
    >
    > TiA


    I found a HRM an excellent investment, along with a copy of "The heart
    rate monitor for Cyclists" (isbn 1-931382-04-2) by Sally Reed and Sally
    Edwards. Comes with 30 day trial of software for use with appropriate
    HRM (that can do download/programming to a PC). Gave me a structure to
    work to, incentive to keep at it, and resulted in successfully cycling
    58 miles in a day over hillier terrain than I'd done before, and
    reaching home being tired but not on my last legs, despite it being the
    most I'd ever cycled and definitely the hilliest 50 miles!

    I'm fitter, MUCH faster (except up hills), and feel great :)

    The book is split into several chapters, and while there is some overlap
    between them, one of them addresses cycling for weight management, which
    is useful. Some excellent tips in the book, good info on how to avoid
    overtraining (I nearly fell prey to this a couple of weeks ago I think
    and wouldn't have realised).

    Of course, the simple and cheap way is just to get out there and ride
    ride and ride some more - but it depends if you're happy doing it like
    that or not. Temptation is to eat more when cycling lots, my weight's
    not moved downwards at all, but I AM slowly getting thinner, though the
    muscles are getting bigger too, so I'm changing shape more than anything
    LOL - and I just can't cycle for hours on end without a regular intake
    of food.

    Even if you don't lose weight, if you cycle regularly and spend plenty
    of time in the aerobic side of things (ie, not all your time pushing so
    hard your muscles are burning up!) your heart (and body) will get fitter
    fast. That's where the HRM comes into it's own, I think - it allows you
    to pace yourself a bit better, and keep a rough idea of if you're riding
    hard enough but not too hard to get the beneficial effects.

    --


    Velvet
     
  4. Succorso

    Succorso Guest

    paul wrote:
    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without falling
    > off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition, but to
    > lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I will need to
    > eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try and rescue my
    > heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu food alone
    > hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online guides for this
    > sort of thing, or good books that people have tried. Any guidlines would
    > be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')
    >
    > TiA


    Ride a bit more, and eat a bit less each week. You will, after a few
    weeks, reach a point where you are losing weight at a healthy rate (no
    more than 1Kg a week). Then, as you approach the point you are getting
    "lean" (ie, little spare lard) start increasing the eats a little each
    week until your weight stabilises.

    Don't target an absolute weight. Weight is a pretty poor metric really -
    %age body fat is a better indicator, and you want as little as possible ;)

    Avoid sugar, saturated fat, hydrogenated fat and pretty much anything
    that comes out of a factory or fast "food" joint; we humans work best
    when powered by stuff that's been grown, not manufactured. Wine is ok as
    long as it's red; beer has way too many superfluous calories/carbs. Eat
    oily fish at least twice a week (Salmon, Tuna etc) and a handful of nuts
    a day (Almonds, Hazels, Cashews - and even Peanuts if you are not "Low
    Carbing"). Fruit (esp berries) is/are excellent, and of course Veggies -
    but then you knew that already, I bet!

    Drink LOTS of water (I have at least 3 ltrs a day, more when doing long
    rides) and supplement Vitamin C and Vitamin E (help to repair Oxidative
    damage you get from exercise). Oh and eat Marmite - it contains lots of
    B complex Vitamins which are essential in repairing stressed muscles.

    Repeat this until you die - which will probably be when you are very
    very very old :)

    --
    Chris
     
  5. paul wrote:
    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without
    > falling off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition,
    > but to lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I
    > will need to eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try
    > and rescue my heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu
    > food alone hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online
    > guides for this sort of thing, or good books that people have tried.
    > Any guidlines would be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')
    >
    > TiA


    As the other replies said, eat low fat food, the diet books say less than 4%
    fat is good. A HRM is useful at the start to show you what your heart is
    doing but IMHO you soon learn what your body is doing and don't need it. A
    Training with a HRM book will show you the zones in which your body uses
    different source of fuel for the effort. One of the sources is fat so the
    goal is to ride within your fat burning zone and of course your HRM will
    tell you this. You may be surprised, you do not need to ride hard and get
    totally knackered to get some benefit.

    I have done all of this over the years but I have found that simply riding
    at a comfortable pace for long distances (>60 miles) in varying terrain
    coupled with a healthy but not extreme diet has allowed me to lose three
    stones in the last 19 months. BTW Fast weight loss is not healthy. I don't
    call my training serious, totally unstructured but committed.
     
  6. paul wrote:

    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without falling
    > off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition, but to
    > lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I will need to
    > eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try and rescue my
    > heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu food alone
    > hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online guides for this
    > sort of thing, or good books that people have tried. Any guidlines would
    > be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')


    To reinforce Velvet's last point - don't forget to ride
    aerobically. Many beginner cyclists push hard against
    high gears (anaerobic), which will give you big leg muscles
    but do less for your overall fitness. Ride by spinning
    the pedals faster in lower gears, and you'll get a good
    cardiovascular workout.

    Don't wait to read a fitness guide, go out this evening for
    a few miles and enjoy yourself!

    --
    jc

    Remove the -not from email
     
  7. Skunk

    Skunk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    74
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    I have been cycling for about two years after previously doing very little exercise in adult life.
    I have lost just over 2 stone.
    I don't diet but I try to eat sensibly - I have mainly cut down on sugar, butter , beer and fatty foods.
    My weight started to go up again recently and I started doing more uphills and I have lost a stone and a half since easter.
    I am not a big build and although I hardly drink beer now, my gut was built over many years drinking bitter on a daily basis, and my gut has absolutely refused to go, though it has gone down a lot. I have just started sit ups but that doesn't seem to be doing much either. I traded beer for white wine, though after what an earlier poster said, I might trade down to red wine - the thought isn't doing much for me though.
    I have never thought about a hrm. Would it be worth it. I cycle about 12 hours a commuting to work via roundabout routes and try to do a 50 mile run every weekend.
     
  8. Saint

    Saint Guest

    "Skunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > I have been cycling for about two years after previously doing very
    > little exercise in adult life.
    > I have lost just over 2 stone.
    > I don't diet but I try to eat sensibly - I have mainly cut down on
    > sugar, butter , beer and fatty foods.
    > My weight started to go up again recently and I started doing more
    > uphills and I have lost a stone and a half since easter.
    > I am not a big build and although I hardly drink beer now, my gut was
    > built over many years drinking bitter on a daily basis, and my gut has
    > absolutely refused to go, though it has gone down a lot. I have just
    > started sit ups but that doesn't seem to be doing much either. I traded
    > beer for white wine, though after what an earlier poster said, I might
    > trade down to red wine - the thought isn't doing much for me though.
    > I have never thought about a hrm. Would it be worth it. I cycle about
    > 12 hours a commuting to work via roundabout routes and try to do a 50
    > mile run every weekend.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Skunk


    Don't have exactly the same problem as you (i.e. 'gut') but seem to have
    'plateaued' in terms of weight loss. Got an HRM with an HR Max of 185 and a
    RHR of 63 and am perenially confused as to whether my training zones should
    be at 50 - 60% or 60 - 70% of max hr and also whether I should use the Heart
    Rate Reserve (Karvonen) method or the 220 - age formula.

    Each give different results and 'target zones' within which to work:

    Karvonen (185 HR Max)

    50 - 60% = 123 - 134 bpm
    60 - 70% = 135 - 146 bpm


    Age Related (220 - age = 182 HR Max)

    50 - 60% = 91 - 109 bpm
    60 - 70% = 109 - 127 bpm


    I suspect that the age related formula, even on the lower % zone for fat
    burning/longer duration, is flawed as raising my RHR by less than 30 bpm is
    not really gonna do the job - I can do that walking upstairs.

    If I could pinpoint the more accurate way, with some clear definition over
    what exactly the correct 'weight loss' zone is, then I may have more success
    with the HRM.

    On the other hand maybe I'm just a classic endomorph! ;-)

    S
     
  9. Succorso

    Succorso Guest

    Skunk wrote:
    > I have been cycling for about two years after previously doing very
    > little exercise in adult life.
    > I have lost just over 2 stone.
    > I don't diet but I try to eat sensibly - I have mainly cut down on
    > sugar, butter , beer and fatty foods.
    > My weight started to go up again recently and I started doing more
    > uphills and I have lost a stone and a half since easter.
    > I am not a big build and although I hardly drink beer now, my gut was
    > built over many years drinking bitter on a daily basis, and my gut has
    > absolutely refused to go, though it has gone down a lot. I have just
    > started sit ups but that doesn't seem to be doing much either. I traded
    > beer for white wine, though after what an earlier poster said, I might
    > trade down to red wine - the thought isn't doing much for me though.
    > I have never thought about a hrm. Would it be worth it. I cycle about
    > 12 hours a commuting to work via roundabout routes and try to do a 50
    > mile run every weekend.
    >
    >


    Yeah, I have exactly the same "gut" issues - main reason I don't wear Lycra!

    However, the good news is the gut *is* disappearing; I guess it was
    quite a few years in the making, so is likely to take more than a couple
    of weeks to disappear. It has diminished from 42" to 35" though :D

    --
    Chris
     
  10. Martin 'MSeries' Newstead wrote:

    > As the other replies said, eat low fat food, the diet books say less than 4%
    > fat is good. A HRM is useful at the start to show you what your heart is
    > doing but IMHO you soon learn what your body is doing and don't need it. A
    > Training with a HRM book will show you the zones in which your body uses
    > different source of fuel for the effort. One of the sources is fat so the
    > goal is to ride within your fat burning zone and of course your HRM will
    > tell you this. You may be surprised, you do not need to ride hard and get
    > totally knackered to get some benefit.


    This is what I had read in a HRM book too, but I have also seen long and
    apparently learned articles and threads which say (summarised as far as
    I understand them...) that the 'fat burning zones' idea does not quite
    tell the full story. (It doesn't contradict what you're saying about the
    benefits to be gained of even low intensity exercise, just the concept
    of 'fat burning zones').

    As far as I understand it (and please correct me if you know better...)

    * exercising in the zone burns more fat as a percentage of the fuel
    sources being used; BUT

    * exercising at higher rates burns more calories in total and it is the
    number of calories used (not the source of the calories) which really
    counts in weight loss.

    Therefore while it's easy to do too much and 'burn out', you don't need
    to worry too much about staying in the range of the 'fat burning zone'.

    Or to quote from one page I found:

    "It is the final balance between total Calories burned (from ANY source
    - carbohydrates, fats, or protein) and those eaten (i.e. the NET
    NEGATIVE CALORIC BALANCE) that determines whether weight is gained or
    lost. The advantage of riding more slowly is that it may make the ride a
    more enjoyable experience for the novice rider, and the pace can be
    maintained for hours. If you have only a limited amount of time to ride,
    the faster your average speed, the more Calories you will burn and the
    more weight you will shed."

    http://www.cptips.com/weight.htm


    It appears to make sense, but then I don't do enough exercise to test
    the theory... ;-)

    David
     
  11. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, paul
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without
    > falling off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition,
    > but to lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I
    > will need to eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try
    > and rescue my heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu
    > food alone hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online
    > guides for this sort of thing, or good books that people have tried.
    > Any guidlines would be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')


    To my surprise I seem to have lost about three or four pounds over
    Saturday's audax (as in, it's stayed off, so it wasn't just dehydration
    or anything). Normal riding doesn't help me lose weight, although it
    does help me lose flab. I've heard other people say that sustained
    exercise, rather than short periods of exercise, is good for losing
    weight

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    "This young man has not the faintest idea how socialists think and does
    not begin to understand the mentality of the party he has been elected
    to lead. He is quite simply a liberal"
    -- Ken Coates MEP (Lab) of Tony Blair
     
  12. Simon Brooke wrote:
    > in message <[email protected]>, paul
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without
    >> falling off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition,
    >> but to lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I
    >> will need to eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try
    >> and rescue my heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu
    >> food alone hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online
    >> guides for this sort of thing, or good books that people have tried.
    >> Any guidlines would be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')

    >
    > To my surprise I seem to have lost about three or four pounds over
    > Saturday's audax (as in, it's stayed off, so it wasn't just
    > dehydration or anything). Normal riding doesn't help me lose weight,
    > although it does help me lose flab. I've heard other people say that
    > sustained exercise, rather than short periods of exercise, is good
    > for losing weight


    and by sustained they mean several hours of bike riding instead of 1 hour in
    the gym ? I think it'll be due to using the fat burning zone more during the
    longer exercise periods. Whereas during short, tough workouts, energy will
    be taken from muscle glycogen stores and not fat. See my other reply about a
    heart rate book or STFW.
     
  13. John Hearns

    John Hearns Guest

    On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:07:26 +0100, Succorso wrote:

    >
    > Ride a bit more, and eat a bit less each week. You will, after a few

    Listening to your excellent advice...
    Up until this point -
    > damage you get from exercise). Oh and eat Marmite - it contains lots of
    > B complex Vitamins which are essential in repairing stressed muscles.

    Eeeoowwwww...
    I'll take my chances with the Grim Reaper, thankyou very much.


    ps. Did anyone see the programme earlier on diet with the couple from
    Birmingham?
    I felt not a little smug as I caught it near the end, just having done
    two hours out on the bike, and settled in front of the TV with a
    healthy(ish) meal. Pride comes before a fall and all that of course,
    as I'm not half as fit as I should be.
     
  14. David Bertenshaw wrote:

    >
    > This is what I had read in a HRM book too, but I have also seen long
    > and apparently learned articles and threads which say (summarised as
    > far as
    > I understand them...) that the 'fat burning zones' idea does not quite
    > tell the full story. (It doesn't contradict what you're saying about
    > the benefits to be gained of even low intensity exercise, just the
    > concept
    > of 'fat burning zones').
    >


    I have read similar articles too I think it must be new findings, my Ed
    Burke book is quite old. I ride alone at a pace that is comfortable for me.
    I don't avoid hills and where I ride there are some long and steep ones. I
    generally do 3 - 11 hour rides at my comfortable pace which will use all
    zones. I have lost three stones in the last 19 months without really trying.
    Long rides work for me ! I have mentioned my pace because like your paper
    says its what makes the exercise enjoyable, if I tried to flog myself I'd
    not enjoy it and probably do less.
     
  15. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    Saint wrote:

    > "Skunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>I have been cycling for about two years after previously doing very
    >>little exercise in adult life.
    >>I have lost just over 2 stone.
    >>I don't diet but I try to eat sensibly - I have mainly cut down on
    >>sugar, butter , beer and fatty foods.
    >>My weight started to go up again recently and I started doing more
    >>uphills and I have lost a stone and a half since easter.
    >>I am not a big build and although I hardly drink beer now, my gut was
    >>built over many years drinking bitter on a daily basis, and my gut has
    >>absolutely refused to go, though it has gone down a lot. I have just
    >>started sit ups but that doesn't seem to be doing much either. I traded
    >>beer for white wine, though after what an earlier poster said, I might
    >>trade down to red wine - the thought isn't doing much for me though.
    >>I have never thought about a hrm. Would it be worth it. I cycle about
    >>12 hours a commuting to work via roundabout routes and try to do a 50
    >>mile run every weekend.
    >>
    >>
    >>--
    >>Skunk

    >
    >
    > Don't have exactly the same problem as you (i.e. 'gut') but seem to have
    > 'plateaued' in terms of weight loss. Got an HRM with an HR Max of 185 and a
    > RHR of 63 and am perenially confused as to whether my training zones should
    > be at 50 - 60% or 60 - 70% of max hr and also whether I should use the Heart
    > Rate Reserve (Karvonen) method or the 220 - age formula.
    >
    > Each give different results and 'target zones' within which to work:
    >
    > Karvonen (185 HR Max)
    >
    > 50 - 60% = 123 - 134 bpm
    > 60 - 70% = 135 - 146 bpm
    >
    >
    > Age Related (220 - age = 182 HR Max)
    >
    > 50 - 60% = 91 - 109 bpm
    > 60 - 70% = 109 - 127 bpm
    >
    >
    > I suspect that the age related formula, even on the lower % zone for fat
    > burning/longer duration, is flawed as raising my RHR by less than 30 bpm is
    > not really gonna do the job - I can do that walking upstairs.
    >
    > If I could pinpoint the more accurate way, with some clear definition over
    > what exactly the correct 'weight loss' zone is, then I may have more success
    > with the HRM.
    >
    > On the other hand maybe I'm just a classic endomorph! ;-)
    >
    > S
    >
    >

    This book I have (that I mentioned in the earlier post) gives about 4
    different ways to determine your max hr - one of which is the age-based
    version, but also by doing specific rides (indoor or out) to determine
    it, or extrapolating by judging what is roughly 85% of max, or by the
    max you've ever seen whilst out riding, and also a formula based on age
    but also weight, etc.

    It also sets out all the zones as percentages of your max hr, in bands
    of 10% starting at 50%, and the sort they are (healthy heart, aerobic,
    threshold, anerobic, all out max etc etc) and some info on the apparent
    differences in fat vs glycogen? burning at each zone, but also balances
    that with the fact that working in higher zones burns less % fat, but
    more of it cos the total calories burned is that much higher.

    But the main thing is that it does explain why you don't get as much
    benefit out of training hard up at your anaerobic threshold as you would
    if you did a lot of that time in the aerobic intead.

    Really do recommend it if you're thinking of getting a HRM or doing some
    semi-serious training and want some background on it, but if anyone
    wants the formula stuff, I'll dig it out and post it on request.

    --


    Velvet
     
  16. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    David Bertenshaw wrote:


    >
    > This is what I had read in a HRM book too, but I have also seen long and
    > apparently learned articles and threads which say (summarised as far as
    > I understand them...) that the 'fat burning zones' idea does not quite
    > tell the full story. (It doesn't contradict what you're saying about the
    > benefits to be gained of even low intensity exercise, just the concept
    > of 'fat burning zones').
    >
    > As far as I understand it (and please correct me if you know better...)
    >
    > * exercising in the zone burns more fat as a percentage of the fuel
    > sources being used; BUT
    >
    > * exercising at higher rates burns more calories in total and it is the
    > number of calories used (not the source of the calories) which really
    > counts in weight loss.
    >
    > Therefore while it's easy to do too much and 'burn out', you don't need
    > to worry too much about staying in the range of the 'fat burning zone'.
    >



    Yep, this is how I understand it to work too - but the thing is you can
    sustain exercise at the aerobic levels for a LOT LOT longer than you can
    at the higher zones - I can do hours and hours of the former and burn
    2600 calories (sunday's ride!) but can only manage brief forays into the
    anaerobic zone (or close to it) of maybe a few minutes each time, which
    won't burn nearly as much in total, simply cos of the reduced time I can
    do it for.

    --


    Velvet
     
  17. Succorso

    Succorso Guest

    John Hearns wrote:
    >
    >>damage you get from exercise). Oh and eat Marmite - it contains lots of
    >>B complex Vitamins which are essential in repairing stressed muscles.

    >
    > Eeeoowwwww...
    > I'll take my chances with the Grim Reaper, thankyou very much.


    Ah, you fall into that camp... same as my eldest Son who calls Marmite
    "Sandwich Tar".

    Well, you can always use a B supplement I suppose - but I always found
    those pills enormous - harder to swallow than a nice Cheese and Marmite
    sarnie ;)

    --
    Chris
     
  18. Graeme

    Graeme Guest

    Succorso <[email protected]> wrote in news:ce7eqa$1sp$1$8302bc10
    @news.demon.co.uk:

    > Well, you can always use a B supplement I suppose - but I always found
    > those pills enormous - harder to swallow than a nice Cheese and Marmite
    > sarnie ;)
    >


    I can't stand the stuff either, but strangely the mention of a cheese and
    marmite sandwich has started off a strange desire to have one. I'll be
    stuck with using Vegemite over here though (equally noxious).

    Graeme
     
  19. Saint

    Saint Guest

    "Velvet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Saint wrote:
    >
    > > "Skunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >>I have been cycling for about two years after previously doing very
    > >>little exercise in adult life.
    > >>I have lost just over 2 stone.
    > >>I don't diet but I try to eat sensibly - I have mainly cut down on
    > >>sugar, butter , beer and fatty foods.
    > >>My weight started to go up again recently and I started doing more
    > >>uphills and I have lost a stone and a half since easter.
    > >>I am not a big build and although I hardly drink beer now, my gut was
    > >>built over many years drinking bitter on a daily basis, and my gut has
    > >>absolutely refused to go, though it has gone down a lot. I have just
    > >>started sit ups but that doesn't seem to be doing much either. I traded
    > >>beer for white wine, though after what an earlier poster said, I might
    > >>trade down to red wine - the thought isn't doing much for me though.
    > >>I have never thought about a hrm. Would it be worth it. I cycle about
    > >>12 hours a commuting to work via roundabout routes and try to do a 50
    > >>mile run every weekend.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>Skunk

    > >
    > >
    > > Don't have exactly the same problem as you (i.e. 'gut') but seem to have
    > > 'plateaued' in terms of weight loss. Got an HRM with an HR Max of 185

    and a
    > > RHR of 63 and am perenially confused as to whether my training zones

    should
    > > be at 50 - 60% or 60 - 70% of max hr and also whether I should use the

    Heart
    > > Rate Reserve (Karvonen) method or the 220 - age formula.
    > >
    > > Each give different results and 'target zones' within which to work:
    > >
    > > Karvonen (185 HR Max)
    > >
    > > 50 - 60% = 123 - 134 bpm
    > > 60 - 70% = 135 - 146 bpm
    > >
    > >
    > > Age Related (220 - age = 182 HR Max)
    > >
    > > 50 - 60% = 91 - 109 bpm
    > > 60 - 70% = 109 - 127 bpm
    > >
    > >
    > > I suspect that the age related formula, even on the lower % zone for fat
    > > burning/longer duration, is flawed as raising my RHR by less than 30 bpm

    is
    > > not really gonna do the job - I can do that walking upstairs.
    > >
    > > If I could pinpoint the more accurate way, with some clear definition

    over
    > > what exactly the correct 'weight loss' zone is, then I may have more

    success
    > > with the HRM.
    > >
    > > On the other hand maybe I'm just a classic endomorph! ;-)
    > >
    > > S
    > >
    > >

    > This book I have (that I mentioned in the earlier post) gives about 4
    > different ways to determine your max hr - one of which is the age-based
    > version, but also by doing specific rides (indoor or out) to determine
    > it, or extrapolating by judging what is roughly 85% of max, or by the
    > max you've ever seen whilst out riding, and also a formula based on age
    > but also weight, etc.
    >
    > It also sets out all the zones as percentages of your max hr, in bands
    > of 10% starting at 50%, and the sort they are (healthy heart, aerobic,
    > threshold, anerobic, all out max etc etc) and some info on the apparent
    > differences in fat vs glycogen? burning at each zone, but also balances
    > that with the fact that working in higher zones burns less % fat, but
    > more of it cos the total calories burned is that much higher.
    >
    > But the main thing is that it does explain why you don't get as much
    > benefit out of training hard up at your anaerobic threshold as you would
    > if you did a lot of that time in the aerobic intead.
    >
    > Really do recommend it if you're thinking of getting a HRM or doing some
    > semi-serious training and want some background on it, but if anyone
    > wants the formula stuff, I'll dig it out and post it on request.
    >
    > --
    >
    >


    Velvet

    Many thanks for that - it's very useful. It would be great if you couuld
    post some of the stuff on zones/formulas as it would give me a brief insight
    into whether I should go ahead and learn more/get the book you mention.

    Thanks again - much appreciated.

    S
     
  20. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    On 27/7/04 9:35 pm, in article
    [email protected], "Simon Brooke"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > in message <[email protected]>, paul
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> Now I've bought my road bike, and I can ride it uphills without
    >> falling off, I want to do some serious training. Not for competition,
    >> but to lose sopme weight. I've tried dieting, and I realise that I
    >> will need to eat properly is I put some miles in, but I want to try
    >> and rescue my heart before it becomes too cloged up, and doing it byu
    >> food alone hasn't worked for me in the past. Are there any online
    >> guides for this sort of thing, or good books that people have tried.
    >> Any guidlines would be helpful (like 'do I need a HRM?')

    >
    > To my surprise I seem to have lost about three or four pounds over
    > Saturday's audax (as in, it's stayed off, so it wasn't just dehydration
    > or anything). Normal riding doesn't help me lose weight, although it
    > does help me lose flab. I've heard other people say that sustained
    > exercise, rather than short periods of exercise, is good for losing
    > weight


    I find an HRM really helps. I know from experience (throw the formula away)
    what my aerobic limit is (about 170-175). For long distance I'll do 120-145
    bpm. For shorter rides (up to a couple of hours) I try to keep the HR over
    140.

    The thing noone has mentioned is intervals. I find that my recovery period
    has dramatically shortened since I started trying interval training.

    And re weight/waist loss: 16kg in the last year (most in the first six
    months) and more than 8 inches off the waist.

    The other thing if you want to keep weight off is to not eat within an hour
    after exercise as this is when the body does its best at laying down
    reserves. This obviously has a performance hit in terms of ability to
    recover from exercise.

    ...d
     
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