Weight Training Results How Quickly?

[RACING RANDY]

I am now in the gym 3X per week working on strengthing my lower abs, hamstrings, calves and upper legs/hips. The other two days, I am on my bike developing my endurance with 25 mile rides. 1X per week, I am at the bike shop on the Computrainer working with my Coach trying to improve my pedalling stroke which was found to have faults because of my previous bike which was not fitted correctly.

My question to the Group is this. When should I start noticing the increase in power due to the weight lifting in the gym and does this current schedule seem to be a good base for me to start racing next spring/summer?

I just started riding this past June and hired a Coach this past July. At first I could not finish the bike club rides every Wednesday evening. We would ride 20-25 miles with a average speed of 19-20mph. By the end of the summer, I was leading the pack and becoming stronger.

What do some of the readers do during off season to get them prepared for next years racing season.

My goal is to race next year. (Cat 5). But it isn't about just racing. It's about winning to me! Yes, I am having fun and I love watching my endurace improve but I want to know if it appears that I am "overdoing this" and if other riders started out just like me.

I am 40 years old and I weigh 200 lbs.

Thanks!

 

[otb4evr]

I am now in the gym 3X per week working on strengthing my lower abs, hamstrings, calves and upper legs/hips. The other two days, I am on my bike developing my endurance with 25 mile rides. 1X per week, I am at the bike shop on the Computrainer working with my Coach trying to improve my pedalling stroke which was found to have faults because of my previous bike which was not fitted correctly.

My question to the Group is this. When should I start noticing the increase in power due to the weight lifting in the gym and does this current schedule seem to be a good base for me to start racing next spring/summer?

I just started riding this past June and hired a Coach this past July. At first I could not finish the bike club rides every Wednesday evening. We would ride 20-25 miles with a average speed of 19-20mph. By the end of the summer, I was leading the pack and becoming stronger.

What do some of the readers do during off season to get them prepared for next years racing season.

My goal is to race next year. (Cat 5). But it isn't about just racing. It's about winning to me! Yes, I am having fun and I love watching my endurace improve but I want to know if it appears that I am "overdoing this" and if other riders started out just like me.

I am 40 years old and I weigh 200 lbs.

Thanks!

Randy,

Good luck this next year.

I am in the Chicago area also and the racing is decent here...

Being a big guy also, the lack of hills is great.

Check out these 2 threads, as I think they have a relevance to both of your issues...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t233514.html

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

As for personal experience, I can say that when I stopped lifting in the winter and started getting on the bike and doing specific intervals, I got much faster.

The same can be said when I stopped concentrating on "kicking and dragging" through my pedal stroke and started pushing down as hard as I could...

In the end, though, you have to do what is best for you...

Jim

 

[RACING RANDY]

Randy,

Good luck this next year.

I am in the Chicago area also and the racing is decent here...

Being a big guy also, the lack of hills is great.

Check out these 2 threads, as I think they have a relevance to both of your issues...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t233514.html

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

As for personal experience, I can say that when I stopped lifting in the winter and started getting on the bike and doing specific intervals, I got much faster.

The same can be said when I stopped concentrating on "kicking and dragging" through my pedal stroke and started pushing down as hard as I could...

In the end, though, you have to do what is best for you...

Jim

Jim:

Thanks for your quick response!!

Perhaps somewhat niave, I did not know just how much involved this sport was. It is so much more than just getting on a bike and riding.

I was riding on Saturday mornings with my Coach in Wilmette and trying to keep up with her group that she rides with but I could not sustain the speed and was dropped after the 1/2 point. The distance they go is 53 miles. It's not the distance that kills but the endurance and speed. I could go 100 miles at a leasure speed of 15-17 MPH. But I need speed!! Lots of it!

Are you racing? Have you raced?

 

[RACING RANDY]

Randy,

Good luck this next year.

I am in the Chicago area also and the racing is decent here...

Being a big guy also, the lack of hills is great.

Check out these 2 threads, as I think they have a relevance to both of your issues...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t233514.html

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

As for personal experience, I can say that when I stopped lifting in the winter and started getting on the bike and doing specific intervals, I got much faster.

The same can be said when I stopped concentrating on "kicking and dragging" through my pedal stroke and started pushing down as hard as I could...

In the end, though, you have to do what is best for you...

Jim

Jim!!

Everyone has advice and a whole lot of differences in opinions. I have no choice but to listen to my Coach as they would not steer me wrong.

Hope to stay in contact with you as we might meet up at a race!!

 

[blkhotrod]

My question to the Group is this. When should I start noticing the increase in power due to the weight lifting in the gym and does this current schedule seem to be a good base for me to start racing next spring/summer?

At 3x a week, assuming you don't bulk in your weight training, maybe by Xmas you'll notice some increase. But of course if you do the american 7 day pig out from xmas to new year add 2 more months

 

[recoverydoc]

Also dont forget about keeping your weight down that will also help with your speed.

 

[RACING RANDY]

At 3x a week, assuming you don't bulk in your weight training, maybe by Xmas you'll notice some increase. But of course if you do the american 7 day pig out from xmas to new year add 2 more months

Thanks for your response, too!

I have kept the same weight for the past 5-7 years although I have lost about 15 lbs since January.

There will be no bulking of the weights as my Coach has specifically kept the weights of my excercises below 60 lbs with 3 sets at 11-13 per set.

The main concentration is my upper leg muscles and my calves. Toe raises with 60 lbs.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Jim!!

Everyone has advice and a whole lot of differences in opinions. I have no choice but to listen to my Coach as they would not steer me wrong.

Hope to stay in contact with you as we might meet up at a race!!

To clarify:

1) there is some evidence that in moderate fitness people, weight training will have a positive effect on (endurance) cycling performance. However, so will virtually any exercise, as it will be stressful enough to cause adaptations beyond e.g., increases in strength

2) there is no evidence (i.e., in peer reviewed research) to show that weight training will have a positive effect on endurance cycling performance

3) first principles suggests that weights would be unlikely to have a positive effect, and may even be detrimental (e.g., increased mass, decreased mitochondrion and capillary density)

4) in another post you mention about using a Computrainer to sort out your pedal stroke. I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but usually people use SpinScan to try to 'smooth' out the pedal stroke and make it more 'circular'. However, data shows us that better cyclists generate greater downward force and pull up less than less good cyclists who manage a more 'circular' stroke.

ric

 

[RapDaddyo]

If your coach has you doing weight work 3x/wk and work on trying to apply force through more of the pedal stroke (e.g., circular pedaling or "scraping mud off your shoe..."), you might want to get some 2nd opinions. Not all coaches share this thinking. I'm being polite.

 

[Billsworld]

For what its worth, you mentioned being able to apply more force on the pedals? You might try doing your "weight training" on the bike. I may sound like a broken record but lots of starts and a clean diet might shed some pound and build power at the same time. If you have an extra grand, you might want to pick up a powermeter . Keep hammering the abs , and take it easy on the upper body work.One total upper body workout per week ought to do.

 

[Sillyoldtwit]

RR the guys are trying to be polite, but as an ex-powerlifter and bodybuilder until January of this year, take it from me; give up all that weight training ****, it won't help your cycling in the least. The time spent pumping up the muscles coud be put to productive use on the bike or indoor trainer.

I just train occasionally with very light weights now, not to improve my cycling but just to look good. I've lost a lost of bulk - the biceps have shrunk, the pecs are just about there, but boy has my cycling improved.

So listen to what the guys are telling you. If you want to look fantastic on the beach then continue with the weights. BTW, I never do any work on the legs in the gym whatsoever, it's just not necessary. Old ladies have enough strength to turn the crank, they just can't sustain the effort for long because they are not doing their interval training.

Best of luck RR. TYSON

 

[asgelle]

I agree with Ric that there is no evidence that weight lifting will improve endurance cycling performance, but I think we're all jumping to conclusions here when we assume Randy's coach is having him lift weights for the purpose of improving his cycling. While this may be true, nowhere is the coach himself quoted as sying this is so. There may be other, valid reasons for a coach to have a 40 year old rider doing weights.

 

[BlueJersey]

This is what I would say to you about off season training if you have been racing for some time. Train the way you race. If you want to do well in a 2 to 3 hours road race, you better do those 3 hours base miles at high tempo or sub threshold. Weight lifting??? We were all once a cat5 and I went through the weight lifting phase. I didn't feel like training until I begin to train with a power meter. I have no problem with my 30sec to 1 minute power. I have no problem gapping the field or attacking the field hard when needed. My weakness so far is my lower threshold power in relation to the duration of some of the longer road races. Weight lifting won't help me to sustain higher power output for longer time since the activity is purely aerobic. I just have to spend a lot of time riding at high tempo during the winter. I also take protein supplement everyday in order to help my recovery from training and work.

Ask your coach what kind of riders he has coached so far and how are they doing???

I am now in the gym 3X per week working on strengthing my lower abs, hamstrings, calves and upper legs/hips. The other two days, I am on my bike developing my endurance with 25 mile rides. 1X per week, I am at the bike shop on the Computrainer working with my Coach trying to improve my pedalling stroke which was found to have faults because of my previous bike which was not fitted correctly.

My question to the Group is this. When should I start noticing the increase in power due to the weight lifting in the gym and does this current schedule seem to be a good base for me to start racing next spring/summer?

I just started riding this past June and hired a Coach this past July. At first I could not finish the bike club rides every Wednesday evening. We would ride 20-25 miles with a average speed of 19-20mph. By the end of the summer, I was leading the pack and becoming stronger.

What do some of the readers do during off season to get them prepared for next years racing season.

My goal is to race next year. (Cat 5). But it isn't about just racing. It's about winning to me! Yes, I am having fun and I love watching my endurace improve but I want to know if it appears that I am "overdoing this" and if other riders started out just like me.

I am 40 years old and I weigh 200 lbs.

Thanks!

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I agree with Ric that there is no evidence that weight lifting will improve endurance cycling performance, but I think we're all jumping to conclusions here when we assume Randy's coach is having him lift weights for the purpose of improving his cycling. While this may be true, nowhere is the coach himself quoted as sying this is so. There may be other, valid reasons for a coach to have a 40 year old rider doing weights.

Good point. Maybe i was jumping to conclusions as Randy had mentioned improving pedal stroke and a CT (which usually implies some SpinScan rubbish). Admittedly, Randy didn't mention SpinScan and perhaps his coach has him stamp down on the pedals on the CT, i don't know?

So, Randy, apologies if i've misinterpreted why your coach has you do weights. Perhaps you can let us know why she has you do that, and what the CT session consists of.

Ric

 

[klanda20]

I understand that weight training has no evidence of improving endurance cycling.

What about over-weight noobies who decide to pick up cycling right before the Winter months (aka myself) ?


First of all, what exactly is endurance cycling...50miles, 100miles, 200miles??? Right now I realize these distances are way out of my league. I rode with a couple experienced friends for the first time a week ago. We rode just under 20 miles and the distance wasn't the problem for me it was the hills. This I would tend to blame on strength ( and my weight ).

Therefore if I use going to the gym to lose weight and gain strength in my legs and core regions is it such a bad thing??

Obviously nothing can take the place of actually getting on the bike and riding, but in my case the Winter months are approaching quickly, and the gym seems like my only option aside from purchasing a trainer. (Student loans are killing the likelyhood of that happening anytime soon)

So assuming the gym is my only option of keeping in "cycling" shape, what are some good exercise to do?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I understand that weight training has no evidence of improving endurance cycling.

What about over-weight noobies who decide to pick up cycling right before the Winter months (aka myself) ?


First of all, what exactly is endurance cycling...50miles, 100miles, 200miles???

anything > ~75 seconds

Right now I realize these distances are way out of my league. I rode with a couple experienced friends for the first time a week ago. We rode just under 20 miles and the distance wasn't the problem for me it was the hills. This I would tend to blame on strength ( and my weight ).

most likely it's your (sustainable) power, not your strength. Power and strength are often used interchangeably and they shouldn't. the words aren't synonymous with each other.

In other words your power to mass ratio isn't high enough. If you're 'untrained' then *any* exercise will essentially help you. If you're trained then it's cycling all the way.

Obviously nothing can take the place of actually getting on the bike and riding, but in my case the Winter months are approaching quickly, and the gym seems like my only option aside from purchasing a trainer. (Student loans are killing the likelyhood of that happening anytime soon)

no idea how cold it gets for you in the winter, but many of us ride outside all-year round. i don't know if this is possible for you?

you can pick up a trainer quite cheaply (especially second hand)

So assuming the gym is my only option of keeping in "cycling" shape, what are some good exercise to do?

anything that involves activating lots of large muscles, so...
cycling on the gym bike
steppers
running on treadmill
swimming
rowing

ric

 

[klanda20]

Cool thanks for the tips.

I see what you mean when you say Strength and sustainable power are very different. Never really thought about the difference.

 

[TiMan]

I raced at the national Cat 1 level for many years and I saw a LOT of riders lifting weights in the off season, LOTS. In fact many many pros, like Armstrong, include weight training in the off season. Also, Joe Friel recommends it as does Carmichael and David Morris. Friel recommends that all older riders lift year round.

I take Lemonds approach with my trainees and do not recommend it unless a rider is very thin. I very strongly believe that riders that are very thin benefit from some extra size, especially in the legs. They seem to become more "athletic" all around on the bike and especially in sprinting and anaerobic efforts. However, by your last comments I take it you are a bit over weight. In that case focus your energy on lots of endurance rides to loose the fat and hold off on the weights. You should do abb work, back extensions on the hyper-extension bench and perhaps some push ups and chin ups.


Back to weight training.
As someone said, one full body workout per week is enough. Focus on squats to at least parallel, low back work and abb work. If you cannot squat with good form ie: too much forward lean then do a full range of motion leg press. Also learn to do the Romanian Deadlift which works the hamstrings and low back very well. Stick to the big basic compound movements, ones that work a lot of mucsle ie :squats and romanian deads.
For the upper body you can simply do push ups and chin ups but you can throw in basic weight training with benches or dips, pulldowns or rows and an overhead press. These three work the entire upper body well.

Keep the intensity high, form very strict, and number of working sets low. Work hard for 1-3 working sets per body part.

If you gain more than a few pounds of muscle, and are not already very thin, then expect your climbing times to drop a bit. However, your sprint will probably get better and as well as your anaerobic power.

If you weight train year round make darn sure that you have at least two days of recovery after the weights before you do a hard group ride or race.
ie: weights, then a recovery ride the next day, then a short tune up ride the next day and then a hard group ride or race.

 

[NM87710]

I take Lemonds approach with my trainees and do not recommend it unless a rider is very thin. I very strongly believe that riders that are very thin benefit from some extra size, especially in the legs. They seem to become more "athletic" all around on the bike and especially in sprinting and anaerobic efforts.

Any ideas on what is considered "very thin"?

I'm 5'9", 140lbs, ~9% body fat, 250FTP. Very thin, thin, avg, beached whale ??

Thanks

 

[BlueJersey]

You are not thin. I am close to your height but weight about 130lb to 135lb. Same FT as of this pass May. Could be higher now. Know nothing about my body fat. I would benefit some from weight training but I don't have enough energy to spare if I want to increase my FT (lots of sub threshold ride) while working a 40 hours job.

Any ideas on what is considered "very thin"?

I'm 5'9", 140lbs, ~9% body fat, 250FTP. Very thin, thin, avg, beached whale ??

Thanks