Weight Training?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by shutterbugg, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    In theory, that should be possible. Dr. Coggan, in a piece titled "Strength vs. Power" from a few years back discusses some of this. Jist of the paper was that most of the short and medium term gains in strength come from improved neuromuscular coordination and are specific to the joint angles and speed of movement used during resistance training. He goes on to say that muscular hypertrophy could increase sustainable power.
     


  2. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    JollyRogers: :)

    Enriss: Muscle mass is not the limiter in terms of your sustainable power. You can see this as an even in a completely sedentary, jumped off the couch, just put down the hot dog, average joe/jane, the blood demand for that person's muscles exceeds the capacity of the heart to provide it.

    I think as an endurance cyclist what you what are the smallest possible muscles possible (while still enough muscle mass to be able to generate enough short-term power for your specific races/events since muscle mass does tend to correlate with maximal power production). This lets you pack a whole lot more energy pathways and power plants, if you will (aka mitochondria). One glance at the build of the best endurance cyclists in the world shows them to be built much along these lines, very slight and no more muscle than absolutely necessary....Contador, Schleck, even Cancellara isn't a big buff guy, he's fairly slight too compared to the regular population - he just looks big when next to say, Contador or Schleck.
     
  3. Enriss

    Enriss New Member

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    Is jollyrogers' summary of the Coggan paper inaccurate then? Cyclists have nothing to gain from muscular hypertrophy?
     
  4. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    That's not what I wrote, though "imply" would be a better choice than "say".

    Here is the paper, minus the graphic:

     
  5. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    So, what is it about cycling that confuses some people into thinking "strength" equates to sustained aerobic power on the bike? Perhaps it's the fact that that inexperienced cyclists often try to push big gears at a low cadence, so it occurs to them first that more muscle is what it takes to ride faster/longer.

    Imagine the response a cyclist would get if they went to a weightlifting website and recommended cycling as a way to get stronger and lift bigger weights :)
     
  6. choffman

    choffman New Member

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    I would suggest NOT doing high reps in the weight room. You can do lightweight reps while pedaling big gears. Stick with moderate to heavy weights. Yes, you will have to work up to heavier weights, but you will get a better workout. After you are done with the weight room, you should be walking out with a tired limp.

    Don't forget to work hard on your abs and mid to lower back (core strength).
     
  7. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    You are dead on correct about that statement. :)
    Cardio to a lifter is typically a taboo thing, but is sometimes a necessary evil because it is about the most efficient way to make a weight class or to lean out for some. Some lifters can make weight class by using a low carb diet, but typically cardio has to be done to get to the goal. However, most consider it a bad thing and for me I was considered a "hard gainer" in those days so the only energy I used was to lift and the rest of the day spent lounging, eating or napping to save calories.
     
  8. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Love the references to Chris Hoy. Hoy has stated that he would prefer smaller legs and that his "thoughts" on weights are that they are only beneficial for the first few pedal strokes of a starting effort. It must also be noted that for all of Hoys strength he is 90lb behind the Worlds strongest woman in the same 90kg weight group for the squat. Fortunately Hoy knows that pedalling a massive gear faster than the other guy is what keeps him winning World Titles and this is where the bulk of his training is focused.
     
  9. Enriss

    Enriss New Member

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    Didn't we have this discussion before, and we recognized that the woman was competing in full gear, while Hoy doesn't use a belt, and that the difference between the men's raw and world records hover around a ratio of 4 to about 5 or 6?
    Should we mention this time that regardless of Hoy's standing in the rankings of world's strongest men, that a 500 lb raw squat is pretty big?
    Hoy wishing he had smaller legs doesn't mean he wishes he had a smaller squat, and wishing for a smaller squat doesn't mean he wishes his squat was under 200 lbs, or even 300 lbs.
     
  10. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Which according to a local World Powerlifting Champion makes a 30-50lb difference and that we are talking about a woman. The Brits acknowledge that 500lb squat is pretty average. If you think a big squat total is what it takes to win sprints it shows you have much to learn about sprinting.
     
  11. Enriss

    Enriss New Member

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    If you think my argument is that a 500 lb squat will win races for you, you have a lot to learn about my argument. I think cyclists have something to gain from being stronger than your average Joe, especially track cyclists.
     
  12. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Lot of thinking going on round here but not a lot of concrete evidence. Cherry picking rider examples is not a great way to develop a training philosophy!
     
  13. jstnice

    jstnice New Member

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    Some form of strength training will help to overcome the muscle imbalances that occur from such an activity.
     
  14. shutterbugg

    shutterbugg New Member

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    whoa. im gonna have to come back and real all this later.
     
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