well that was scary: LBS didn't tighten lock ring on my new fixed gear

[landotter]

OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.

Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.

Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
low! Muppets, I tell ya.

Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.

 

[G.T.]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>

Trust no one. Hell, I don't even trust myself so I sure as hell ain't going
to trust a mechanic. I do everything myself except for some frame prep and
most suspension work.

Greg

 

[Collin O'Neill]

landotter wrote:
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>
At least let them know about the lock ring. It's pretty important and at
the least the mechanic and managers should learn something from your
potential faceplant.

I love riding without an emergency brake, but this is exactly why I don't.

-Collin

 

[BobT]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>
If you want it done right - do it yourself!

Although I bet if we started a contest, customers versus bike shop
employees, telling stories about dumb things done by customers
versus dumb things done by the bike shop wrenches, I bet
the customers wouldn't fair very well.

BobT
Bike Shop Customer

 

[Fred Clydesdale]

In article <[email protected]>,
"BobT" <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you want it done right - do it yourself!
>
> Although I bet if we started a contest, customers versus bike shop
> employees, telling stories about dumb things done by customers
> versus dumb things done by the bike shop wrenches, I bet
> the customers wouldn't fair very well.

true, but that's mainly because the population of bike shops is
smaller than the population of customers. we have to do our
comparison on the basis of percentages.

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Fred Clydesdale" wrote: true, but that's mainly because the population of
bike shops is smaller than the population of customers. we have to do our
comparison on the basis of percentages.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OTOH, each bike shop mechanic prolly works on ten bikes a day. The average
customer may work on one a month, or less.

 

[[email protected]]

landotter wrote:
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.

None of the above. You should complain to them that they
didn't tighten the cog enough. It should be on there firmly
enough that you can't break it loose by backpedaling - much
less on your first try, since I doubt you were jamming on
the pedal super hard or skip-braking. You don't need a
gorilla to put it on, just a firm hand and a chainwhip.
Also, you might want to go back in person rather than
calling - ask them to tighten it with their chainwhip.
(I'm sure you can do it yourself, but they'll get the point
better in person.)

Whether the lockring is a critical safeguard or just a safety
crutch is the subject of holy wars, which are irrelevant here.
Both sides agree that the cog should not loosen in daily use.
This is why people can ride fixed cogs on old freewheel hubs.
If the LBS is not used to fixed gears, maybe they don't
realize that the lockring is the second line of defense,
not the first (which of course doesn't excuse the lockring
not being tight).

Ben

 

[RS]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
>"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
>> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
>> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>>
>> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
>> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW.
Sure
>> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
>> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>>
>> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm
too
>> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>>
>> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
>> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>>
>If you want it done right - do it yourself!
>
>Although I bet if we started a contest, customers versus bike shop
>employees, telling stories about dumb things done by customers
>versus dumb things done by the bike shop wrenches, I bet
>the customers wouldn't fair very well.
>
>BobT
>Bike Shop Customer
>
Bike shop is providing a professional service for a price, some simple things
they should get right every time. As their error caused a potentially
dangerous situation, i would write the owner of the shop a letter making
him aware of exactly what occurred. Maybe save the next poor schmuck
from doing a header or worse?

 

[landotter]

[email protected] wrote:

> [snip]
> Whether the lockring is a critical safeguard or just a safety
> crutch is the subject of holy wars, which are irrelevant here.
> Both sides agree that the cog should not loosen in daily use.
> This is why people can ride fixed cogs on old freewheel hubs.
> If the LBS is not used to fixed gears, maybe they don't
> realize that the lockring is the second line of defense,
> not the first (which of course doesn't excuse the lockring
> not being tight).
>
> Ben

Yeah, I should make the pilgrimage. Shame it's 10 miles out, as the
real three LBS's are either lame, or really nice, but with poor
inventory. I'm fully aware that a lockring is belt and suspenders, and
a place where I don't mind such thinking. If I'd found just the
lockring loose, but the cog chain whipped into submission, it wouldn't
have been as appalling. It's funny, I was starting from the house on a
mess of slippery leaves, so what I thought was wheel slip on the leaves
when pedaling, was the dang cog starting to tighten up.

I figure I also got to complain that the bike came with tires so crappy
they only sell them in Krakow for $5 (no exaggeration) and a few select
chinese cities. Spec was good urban puncture resistant IRC Tandems.
Great tire for a single rider looking for durability as well. When you
order a bike w/o there being a showroom model, you sort of expect the
specsheet to be followed.

I figure the lockring will give me leverage to get the proper tires. I
don't really care if the shop loses money on this one, and usually I'd
be sympathetic.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

landotter wrote:
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.

Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:09:07 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

>> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
>> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>
> Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
> for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
> distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
> spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.

I bet there was another cause. He didn't get the sprocket on tight to
begin with. Maybe the threads bound some, or maybe he got distracted, or
maybe he was used to freewheels where it just doesn't matter. Anyway,
then, he could have tightened the lockring all he wanted and it would be
loose the first time you rode the bike. Re-tightening the lockring after
a test ride should be standard procedure.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:33:52 -0700, landotter wrote:

> lockring loose, but the cog chain whipped into submission, it wouldn't
> have been as appalling. It's funny, I was starting from the house on a
> mess of slippery leaves, so what I thought was wheel slip on the leaves
> when pedaling, was the dang cog starting to tighten up.

I just suggested this as the real problem on another response. The
lockring might well have been tight, but the sprocket wasn't. Once you
tightened down the sprocket by riding a few miles, the lockring would have
to be loose.

> I figure the lockring will give me leverage to get the proper tires. I
> don't really care if the shop loses money on this one, and usually I'd
> be sympathetic.

The tires are another thing, but the lockring issue is a bit less worthy.
People used to freewheels would never bother tightening them, since one
ride and they are tighter than anyone could do with a chain whip. Of
course, with a fixed gear, you really, really need to get the sprocket
tight before you tighten down the lockring.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
_`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
(_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
internet has proven this not to be the case.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.

If the point is to make sure they don't do something like that again, and
potentially save some other customers from the same thing, the best thing to
do is just mention to the shop that it might be a good idea to check the
other bikes on their floor because the "factory" didn't tighten the
lockring, causing the problem you had. Yeah, you & I know the shop should
have done that, or checked it if it was already installed, but by not saying
that directly they won't become immediately defensive and yet will know,
yeah, they did something stupid.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote:

> OK, shouldda checked it when I flopped the wheel, but you'd think a
> real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
> brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
>
> Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
> of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
> am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
> on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
>
> Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
> low! Muppets, I tell ya.
>
> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.

You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
built up bicycle.

--
Michael Press

 

[landotter]

Michael Press wrote:

>
> You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
> what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
> ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
> built up bicycle.

They sold it to me with the wheel flipped to the freewheel side, so a
test ride would have done little good. To be honest, the slapdash
assembly of the thing probably means I was the first person since
Taiwan that pulled the rear wheel.

Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.

I should deffo suggest that they take fixes for a spin in the lot.
That rear slipping only a single turn was enough to send me in front of
an oncoming car. Thank goodness they weren't on a cell phone or
similar--I often see cars sail through this four way w/o stopping at
30mph.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
> properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.

*Your* bike may have been assembled by a "17 y/o lackey" but please don't
assume all bikes are. We, and many other shops, go to an awful lot of
trouble to try and properly assemble bicycles, spending enough time & effort
to do the job the right way, with the right tools, and having the experience
to know when something arrives from the factory in a way it shouldn't have.
We take a lot of pride in what we do.

Aside from denigrating shop mechanics in general, it's also wrong to assume
that a 17 year old isn't capable of exceptional work. After a whole lot of
years in the business, I've learned that some people have an intuitive knack
for mechanical things, and some don't. Some things can be adequately taught
to a competent but not intuitive person, but there are few things that make
me happier than finding a young person who has a way with all-things
mechanical, and helping them along.

I started my career as a 15 year old mechanic, and still find great pleasure
in working on bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Michael Press wrote:
>
>>
>> You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
>> what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
>> ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
>> built up bicycle.
>
> They sold it to me with the wheel flipped to the freewheel side, so a
> test ride would have done little good. To be honest, the slapdash
> assembly of the thing probably means I was the first person since
> Taiwan that pulled the rear wheel.
>
> Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
> properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
>
> I should deffo suggest that they take fixes for a spin in the lot.
> That rear slipping only a single turn was enough to send me in front of
> an oncoming car. Thank goodness they weren't on a cell phone or
> similar--I often see cars sail through this four way w/o stopping at
> 30mph.
>

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:09:07 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> >> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> >> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
> >
> > Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
> > for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
> > distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
> > spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.
>
> I bet there was another cause. He didn't get the sprocket on tight to
> begin with. Maybe the threads bound some, or maybe he got distracted, or
> maybe he was used to freewheels where it just doesn't matter.

Sorry, it DOES matter with a freewheel, particularly if the freewheel
is new and different from the older one on the hub. Adjust the rear der
with a not tight freewheel and furst stomp, it tightens and then the
chain gets shucked off the small cog, into the frame dropouts..

Anyway,
> then, he could have tightened the lockring all he wanted and it would be
> loose the first time you rode the bike. Re-tightening the lockring after
> a test ride should be standard procedure.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> __o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
> _`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
> (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
> > properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> > satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
>
> *Your* bike may have been assembled by a "17 y/o lackey" but please don't
> assume all bikes are. We, and many other shops, go to an awful lot of
> trouble to try and properly assemble bicycles, spending enough time & effort
> to do the job the right way, with the right tools, and having the experience
> to know when something arrives from the factory in a way it shouldn't have.
> We take a lot of pride in what we do.

Well said Mike but unfortunately, here in the republic, the 2 'big'
shops look to the lower end of the food chain to assemble bicycles, and
it really shows. Bike assembly and bike wrenching in general, at these
two places, are seen as an expense, to be minimized, so bikes outta
boxes are poorly assembled, almost all the time. If Target/Walmart,
other places, could figure out good assembly, service after the sale,
these bikes offered would be quite the nice bike, at less $.
>
> Aside from denigrating shop mechanics in general, it's also wrong to assume
> that a 17 year old isn't capable of exceptional work. After a whole lot of
> years in the business, I've learned that some people have an intuitive knack
> for mechanical things, and some don't. Some things can be adequately taught
> to a competent but not intuitive person, but there are few things that make
> me happier than finding a young person who has a way with all-things
> mechanical, and helping them along.
>
> I started my career as a 15 year old mechanic, and still find great pleasure
> in working on bikes.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
> "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Michael Press wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
> >> what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
> >> ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
> >> built up bicycle.
> >
> > They sold it to me with the wheel flipped to the freewheel side, so a
> > test ride would have done little good. To be honest, the slapdash
> > assembly of the thing probably means I was the first person since
> > Taiwan that pulled the rear wheel.
> >
> > Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
> > properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> > satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
> >
> > I should deffo suggest that they take fixes for a spin in the lot.
> > That rear slipping only a single turn was enough to send me in front of
> > an oncoming car. Thank goodness they weren't on a cell phone or
> > similar--I often see cars sail through this four way w/o stopping at
> > 30mph.
> >

 

[* * Chas]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > [snip]
> > Whether the lockring is a critical safeguard or just a safety
> > crutch is the subject of holy wars, which are irrelevant here.
> > Both sides agree that the cog should not loosen in daily use.
> > This is why people can ride fixed cogs on old freewheel hubs.
> > If the LBS is not used to fixed gears, maybe they don't
> > realize that the lockring is the second line of defense,
> > not the first (which of course doesn't excuse the lockring
> > not being tight).
> >
> > Ben
>
> Yeah, I should make the pilgrimage. Shame it's 10 miles out, as the
> real three LBS's are either lame, or really nice, but with poor
> inventory. I'm fully aware that a lockring is belt and suspenders, and
> a place where I don't mind such thinking. If I'd found just the
> lockring loose, but the cog chain whipped into submission, it wouldn't
> have been as appalling. It's funny, I was starting from the house on a
> mess of slippery leaves, so what I thought was wheel slip on the
leaves
> when pedaling, was the dang cog starting to tighten up.
>
> I figure I also got to complain that the bike came with tires so
crappy
> they only sell them in Krakow for $5 (no exaggeration) and a few
select
> chinese cities. Spec was good urban puncture resistant IRC Tandems.
> Great tire for a single rider looking for durability as well. When you
> order a bike w/o there being a showroom model, you sort of expect the
> specsheet to be followed.
>
> I figure the lockring will give me leverage to get the proper tires. I
> don't really care if the shop loses money on this one, and usually I'd
> be sympathetic.
>

Most people rarely complain about poor service or product quality, they
just shop elsewhere. A business should be made aware that there is a
problem and given the opportunity to rectify it. If they don't care then
the next step is to start badmouthing them.

Epson the printer company did a study a few years ago. They found that
satisfied customers will tell 2 others about their positive experiences
whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 17 others!

The point being, consumers need to stop being passive and speak up if we
want better service or quality products.

A note on tires, there used to be a manufacturer of cheap replacement
tires for kid's bikes out of Korea or Taiwan called Dy Yung Tire Co.

Chas.

 

[* * Chas]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> David L. Johnson wrote:
> > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:09:07 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> >
> > >> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a
man? I
> > >> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
> > >
> > > Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring
on,
> > > for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
> > > distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just
gets
> > > spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.
> >
> > I bet there was another cause. He didn't get the sprocket on tight
to
> > begin with. Maybe the threads bound some, or maybe he got
distracted, or
> > maybe he was used to freewheels where it just doesn't matter.
>
> Sorry, it DOES matter with a freewheel, particularly if the freewheel
> is new and different from the older one on the hub. Adjust the rear
der
> with a not tight freewheel and furst stomp, it tightens and then the
> chain gets shucked off the small cog, into the frame dropouts..
>
> Anyway,
> > then, he could have tightened the lockring all he wanted and it
would be
> > loose the first time you rode the bike. Re-tightening the lockring
after
> > a test ride should be standard procedure.
> >
> > --
> >
> > David L. Johnson

Agree completely. We used to road tested every bike we worked on or
assembled. The loose freewheel issue happened to me several times road
testing newly assembled bikes before putting them on the showroom floor.
They came from the factory with freewheels that weren't tightened
properly. We never put toeclips on new bikes until they were sold.
Almost did a face plant both times when the rear wheel locked up and my
feet slipped off the pedals.

Chas.