west highland way

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

While your comments are helpful I'd just say one thing:

The apostrophe is used in plurals just very very occasionally (rarely, even).

Aye, but it doesn't make it right... :-) I know what you mean though. I get round the Ps and Qs
bit by using upper case letters. One of these days I shall find the necessary 'tuits' to Google
for the origin of sayings like that one.

The url for Michael Quinion's website is: Editor: Michael Quinion, Thornbury, Bristol, UK ISSN 1470-
1448 <http://www.worldwidewords.org>

Katherine

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Grant Gordon wrote on 24 Nov 2003 07:07:47 -0800....

[in response to Fran, who criticised the grammatical standards of the Scottish education system]

Quoted message said:

Are you a grammar teacher Fran? If not stop checking grammar mistakes of others.

I suspect that Fran's underlying complaint is at the appallingly low standards of the Scottish
education system when it comes to teaching students how to use newsgroups.

I was bored. Actually, although I could do so, I very rarely bother to correct spelling or grammar
in NG posts, mainly because I can't be bothered to make sure my own posts are correct. I do,
however, get fed up with the ceaseless silly questions about the WHW and "scottish walks" from the
various colleges, especially when they're so horrendously illiterate.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One of these days I shall find the necessary 'tuits' to Google for the origin of sayings like
that one.

Quoted message said:

If you've ever done any type-setting, then you'll realise the letters are easily confused because
they are reversed images of each other. A piece of type (a bit of metal) for a "p" is easily
confused with a "q" when the letters are laterally reversed.

The trouble with that argument for its existence is that 'd' and 'b' are just as easily confused.
I've found a few purported origins for the expression; none of them have really convinced me though.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

While your comments are helpful I'd just say one thing:

The apostrophe is used in plurals just very very occasionally (rarely, even).

Aye, but it doesn't make it right... :-) I know what you mean though. I get round the Ps and Qs
bit by using upper case letters. One of these days I shall find the necessary 'tuits' to Google
for the origin of sayings like that one.

The url for Michael Quinion's website is: Editor: Michael Quinion, Thornbury, Bristol, UK ISSN 1470-
1448 <http://www.worldwidewords.org>

I'd forgotten about that site Katherine - thanks.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

W. D. Grey wrote

Quoted message said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

I heard recently (although I have fogotten where) that it stands for mind your Pints and
Quarts, from a time when drinking houses would get rowdy and violent, thus upsetting the beers
of the patrons.

Just speculating. I have no proof.

Chris

W. D. Grey said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

Errrr a compositor, a typesetter is a machine.

--
Marc. Please note the above address is a spam trap, use marcc to reply Printing for clubs of all
types jaceeprint.demon.co.ukjaceeprint.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ Stickers, banners & clothing, for clubs,teams, magazines
and dealers.

Chris Gilbert said:

W. D. Grey wrote

Quoted message said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

I heard recently (although I have fogotten where) that it stands for mind your Pints and Quarts,
from a time when drinking houses would get rowdy and violent, thus upsetting the beers of the
patrons.

Just speculating. I have no proof.

Chris

It seems you both may be right.

"MIND YOUR P'S AND Q'S---Be precise.---"You had better mind your p's and q's."---18th century
saying. A tab in the local pub once indicated p (pints) and q (quarts); the publican or drinker
could be admonished to keep them straight.---A child learning to read and write may have difficulty
with p's and q's.---In the early days of printing the type was set by hand in wooden frames. As the
print was set by hand, and backwards, it was easy to mix the two up.---Hannah Cowley (1779). Who's
the Dupe? "You must mind your P's and Q's with him, I can tell you.""

For more of the same have a look here.

geocities.comsayM.htmOpen ↗

--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden] Website:- ftscotland.co.ukftscotland.co.ukOpen ↗ IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble
uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667 #Rabble Channel Website:- ftscotland.co.ukrabbledOpen ↗
ICQ : 41266150

noos@[127.0.0.1] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

I have seen the origin of the saying being proffered as the difference between Q Celtic and P
Celtic. It doesn't sound very probable does it?

Not as far as Welsh is concerned, no. We don't have a Q.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

The message <[email hidden]>
from [email hidden] (marc) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

Quoted message said:

Errrr a compositor, a typesetter is a machine.

Not necessarily. The Collins Dictionary has both uses.

--
Roger Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor Top Posters
killfiled on sight

marc said:

W. D. Grey said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

Errrr a compositor, a typesetter is a machine.

Not when type was hand set.

Katherine

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The url for Michael Quinion's website is: Editor: Michael Quinion, Thornbury, Bristol, UK ISSN
1470-1448 <http://www.worldwidewords.org>

That address bothers me somehow ...

Richard Webb

Quoted message said:

All in all however, it was a poor effort. God help the Scottish education system if this is the
best they can produce.

Is there more than one Scottish education system? Dave All Wainwrights completed Looking across
Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Fells

Katherine said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So to recap - the type setter has to watch his "p's" and "q's"

Errrr a compositor, a typesetter is a machine.

Not when type was hand set.

What you mean was? It still is, I know many comps that can set something like a raffle ticket faster
than it's possible make a neg let alone a plate.

As to definitions I give you the

Blueprint Print and Production Manual

Glossary of terms

Compositor : Person involved in the pre-press stage of assembling type into lines/blocks for
letterpress work

Typesetter: Company or machine that sets type.

--
Marc. Please note the above address is a spam trap, use marcc to reply Printing for clubs of all
types jaceeprint.demon.co.ukjaceeprint.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ Stickers, banners & clothing, for clubs,teams, magazines
and dealers.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:06:06 GMT, [email hidden] (RJ

Webb) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The url for Michael Quinion's website is: Editor: Michael Quinion, Thornbury, Bristol, UK ISSN
1470-1448 <http://www.worldwidewords.org>

That address bothers me somehow ...

Richard Webb

Ha ha - looks like the bugger's still about!

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 122
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

[email hidden] (RJ Webb) wrote in news:3fc36813.12966796
@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The url for Michael Quinion's website is: Editor: Michael Quinion, Thornbury, Bristol, UK ISSN
1470-1448 <http://www.worldwidewords.org>

That address bothers me somehow ...

Richard Webb

LOL. Publishing from a campervan?

--
Adrian

Lachie said:

Exodus 22:19. Quisquis concubuerit cum animali, morte moriatur.

Exodus 22:19 Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Ha ha - looks like the bugger's still about!

have you been resting on your laurels lately? your website shows no activity since september oh and
by the way this is a student raised thread so please keep your kapitol letters and punctuation out
of it thatnkyou very ian much

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - mailgate.orgmailgate.orgOpen ↗

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Not as far as Welsh is concerned, no. We don't have a Q.

Quite so, but we have characters not included in the International Character Map. It's a case of
give and take :-)

True. NRB Welsh Gillian will give you the w^ and y^ as well as all the usual oddities. It's
downloadable from ice.prohosting.comfonttest.htmOpen ↗ and appears to be my
favourite price :-)
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

noos@[127.0.0.1] said...

Quoted message said:

In Celtic linguistics, it really pays to "mind your Ps and Qs."

Gracious! I shall keep that post, Lachie - it's far too interesting to digest in just one reading!
Thanks :-))
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Ian Dainty said:

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Ha ha - looks like the bugger's still about!

have you been resting on your laurels lately? your website shows no activity since september oh and
by the way this is a student raised thread so please keep your kapitol letters and punctuation out
of it thatnkyou very ian much

no i bin out a cluope o times this month but i no put up de pictures yet ok la?

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 122
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗