weyless and wellgo?



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S

Super Slinky

Guest
B. Sanders said...

> Wrong. Supergo engineered the 2003 Weyless Ultra frame in direct collaboration with Easton
> engineers. (Yeah, they know a thing or two about frame engineering). This is not a knock-off. It's
> as thoughtfully engineered as any frame you'll find.

Too funny. Your description is more glowing and exaggerated than the paragraph on the Supergo web
site that it is lifted from. You really shouldn't ***** yourself out like that if you aren't
getting paid for
Ba. Budweiser cans say they know of no other beer that cost more to produce. Is anyone stupid enough
to believe that?

> Is it hand built? Probably.

ROTFL. Probably not, but who cares? In all likelihood it is made in a highly automated factory in
Taiwan or China and very little if any hand work goes into it. If it is hand made by an unskilled
person or a skilled person who rushes through the job, hand made means nothing. It's a cheap frame
and no doubt there are many reasons why it is cheap. It may be a good bargain. Hell, I even
considered buying one myself earlier this year to build up a second bike to replace my aging GT. But
your insinuation that it is world class is complete ********, not to mention an insult to the frame
builders who really do build top notch frames.
 
T

Tyler Durden

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "tyler durden" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:%[email protected]...
> > > "tyler durden" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:p[email protected]...
> > > > > "mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > > "big purple dinosaur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > > > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > > > > > > > Weyless is Supergo's in-house boutique brand name for
> their
> > > > > > > high-quality
> > > > > > > > > > imported cycling components (and frames). I have a
> high-end
> > > > > custom
> > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > (RaceFace/XTR, etc) built around their Weyless Ultra
> > hardtail
> > > > > frame,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > very happy with the frame so far. Nice geometry, very
> > stiff,
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > light.
> > > > > > > > > > From what I've seen, the Weyless "brand" offers
excellent
> > > value.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your wayless is just that barry bargain, way less than a
> > custom
> > > > > > > > > bicycle. If you try to tell us that frame was built
custom
> > for
> > > > you
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > will only reinforce the fact that you are naive about
> > bicycles.
> > > > Do
> > > > > > > > > you even ride?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh, look, another sad and boring troll.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <plonk>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > oh look, another sad and boring coward.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <plonk>
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL. Killed two birds with one stone.
> > > > >
> > > > you plonked yourself?
> > >
> > > No, but I got rid of two useless trolls in one posting.
> > >
> > > If you want to contribute to the discussion, great. If you want to
bait
> > and
> > > troll, then welcome to my killfile. Simple as that.
> > >
> > give up already?
>
> What do you mean?
>
its a yes or no question.
 
C

Corvus Corvax

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> If I had a Santa Cruz Blur with XTR, RaceFace, Marzocchi, Hope, etc, would it meet your criteria
> for "custom bike?"

Nope.

CC
 
B

B. Sanders

Guest
"Super Slinky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> B. Sanders said...
>
> > Wrong. Supergo engineered the 2003 Weyless Ultra frame in direct collaboration with Easton
> > engineers. (Yeah, they know a thing or two
about
> > frame engineering). This is not a knock-off. It's as thoughtfully
engineered
> > as any frame you'll find.

<libelous ad-hominem snipped>

> > Is it hand built? Probably.

> Probably not, but who cares?

Who cares what you think? You know nothing about this frame. You've never ridden one. You've never
closely examined it in person. You don't own one and ride it daily. So, your assertions, like your
opinions, are meaningless.

> In all likelihood it is made in a highly automated factory in Taiwan or China

Like 99% of the bikes on the market, including high-end big-name brands: Specialized, Kona,
Giant, etc?

The workmanship is excellent on this frame. That's what I know for a fact, because I can see, touch
and ride the bike. When you buy one, and ride it, then you can offer your opinion of it. Until then,
you are just another sad and pathetic troll with no life.

> no doubt there are many reasons why it is cheap.

1) No multi-million-dollar ad campaigns
2) No professional racers hawking it for money
3) Reduced distribution overhead: Eliminate the middle-man

I enjoy these conversations. Keep settin' 'em up, and I'll keep knockin' 'em down.

-Barry
 
D

Deluxe Model

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >
> > > If I had a Santa Cruz Blur with XTR, RaceFace, Marzocchi, Hope, etc,
> would
> > > it meet your criteria for "custom bike?"
> >
> > Nope.
>
> Then you're not speaking the same language that the rest of us are
speaking.
>
What do you call my 'custom' (not off the rack) IF Deluxe? It's certainly not custom because I'm
spec'ing my own parts.
 
S

Super Slinky

Guest
B. Sanders said...

> <libelous ad-hominem snipped>

Not particularly libelous or ad hominem. I'm sorry, but if you are going to paraphrase their sales
blurbs in even more glowing terms than they used it is pretty easy to spot.

> > > Is it hand built? Probably.
>
> > Probably not, but who cares?
>
> Who cares what you think? You know nothing about this frame. You've never ridden one. You've never
> closely examined it in person. You don't own one and ride it daily. So, your assertions, like your
> opinions, are meaningless.

The point was about the frame being hand made. Again you ignore the question and try to focus the
attention on me. Do you have anything else to say about the frame being hand made, or are you just
admitting that it was a dumb thing to say?

> > In all likelihood it is made in a highly automated factory in Taiwan or China
>
> Like 99% of the bikes on the market, including high-end big-name brands: Specialized, Kona,
> Giant, etc?

I only pointed out the country of origin because that is how far-eastern manufacturers usually work.
It's called mass production.

> The workmanship is excellent on this frame. That's what I know for a fact, because I can see,
> touch and ride the bike. When you buy one, and ride it, then you can offer your opinion of it.
> Until then, you are just another sad and pathetic troll with no life.

Actually, I didn't make any particular value judgements on the frame. I even said it might be a
good bargain and that I considered buying one. However, since you want to dwell on this point, I
might as well point that if anybody wants to do a little research, not everybody is as in love with
them as you are.

> > no doubt there are many reasons why it is cheap.
>
> 1) No multi-million-dollar ad campaigns

Hah. You could probably buy most boutique bike makers for less. I would be surprised if any of them,
even Trek, spends nearly that much on advertising.

> 2) No professional racers hawking it for money

Yeah, those pro mountain bikers are some of the richest athletes in the world.

> 3) Reduced distribution overhead: Eliminate the middle-man

What middle man? Tell me which frame makers require a dealer to go through a distributor. I would be
interested in what dealers have to say about this. You can buy a Titus from the factory if you don't
have a nearby dealer.

4) No R&D. Just copy an obsolete frame from a trend setting manufacturer or make something without
testing it. If it doesn't work, apologize profusely and recall them.

5) The obvious one: more lenient manufacturing standards and QC. And before you say I'm just yanking
your chain with this, anyone can find complaints about these frames from Google or MTBR, even if
you disregard the recall for the 2002 model of the very frame you own. True, there are complaints
out there for just about any frame, but the Weyless frames have more than the average. I'm OK
with that, it is a low cost frame and there are trade-offs, and it can still be a good value. I
understand that, but you apparently think you are getting something for nothing. It is well known
how these far-eastern manufacturers work and it has been discussed recently on rec.bicycles.tech.
You get as much quality from them as you explicitly demand and no more. The big makers have reps
over there doing QC all the time to keep a handle on what they put their name on.

> I enjoy these conversations. Keep settin' 'em up, and I'll keep knockin' 'em down.

It's fun playing devil's advocate, isn't it?
 
B

B. Sanders

Guest
"Super Slinky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> B. Sanders said...
>
> > <libelous ad-hominem snipped>
>
> Not particularly libelous or ad hominem.

Yes, it was.

> I'm sorry

No you're not. You're an ass.

> It's fun playing devil's advocate, isn't it?

Here's what's fun:

<plonk>

Aaahhh. That's much better.

-=B=-
 
B

B. Sanders

Guest
"deluxe model" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > >
> > > > If I had a Santa Cruz Blur with XTR, RaceFace, Marzocchi, Hope, etc,
> > would
> > > > it meet your criteria for "custom bike?"
> > >
> > > Nope.
> >
> > Then you're not speaking the same language that the rest of us are
> speaking.
> >
> What do you call my 'custom' (not off the rack) IF Deluxe? It's certainly not custom because I'm
> spec'ing my own parts.

I call it a custom IF Deluxe, of course. "Custom," as opposed to "stock."

If you disagree, then specify your semantic taxonomy of "custom bikes" so I will understand it.

-=B=-
 
D

Deluxe Model

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "deluxe model" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > <snip> <snip> <snip>
> >
> > > Until then, you are just another sad and pathetic troll
> > >
> > Because he does not agree with you?
>
> No, because he's a troll.
>
No, because you're the troll.

> What part of "troll" don't you understand?
>
What's a troll?

> <p-p-p-plonk>
>
Lamer, you didn't plonk me.
-----------------
Remember this??
> with no life.
>
Tell us about yours.
 
D

Deluxe Model

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "deluxe model" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > If I had a Santa Cruz Blur with XTR, RaceFace, Marzocchi, Hope,
etc,
> > > would
> > > > > it meet your criteria for "custom bike?"
> > > >
> > > > Nope.
> > >
> > > Then you're not speaking the same language that the rest of us are
> > speaking.
> > >
> > What do you call my 'custom' (not off the rack) IF Deluxe? It's
certainly
> > not custom because I'm spec'ing my own parts.
>
> I call it a custom IF Deluxe, of course. "Custom," as opposed to "stock."
>
Good boy!

> If you disagree, then specify your semantic taxonomy of "custom bikes" so
I
> will understand it.
>
My semantic taxonomy is broken.

Now tell us about your life.
 
B

B. Sanders

Guest
"bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:04:56 +0000, B. Sanders wrote:
>
> > Here's what's fun:
> >
> > <plonk>
> >
> > Aaahhh. That's much better.
>
> Your inability to have a decent debate on a subject without labelling someone a troll, or
> 'plonking' them, shows a lack of conviction and debases your argument.

When debate is (a) worth having and (b) conducted respectfully, then it's great. I'm all for debate,
and have debated with some impressive people on Usenet. Debates can get interesting; but they don't
have to get ugly. Some people just start right in with the ad hominems and infantile jibes, never
even beginning to actually debate (which requires logic, reason and respect). I've covered the
topics I wanted to cover, and said all I wanted to say, and much more. You're confusing debate with
trolling. They are very different beasts.

The inhabitants of my killfile have one thing in common: A serious lack of respect for others. They
act like infantile, arrogant jerks. I can't change them; but I can remove them from the conversation
(from my perspective), which has the desired effect.

It's too bad that people can't just behave respectfully; but I guess not everybody has enough
self-esteem for that. I wish it were otherwise.

-=B=-
 
S

Sorni

Guest
"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> I don't have anyone in my kill file. I get a laugh out of most of the maneuvering. When I get
> tired of a person or a topic I just don't read them/it.

I had a boatload of blocked senders previously, but haven't set any since getting a new 'puter a few
months ago. Easy enough to just ignore "problem posters"...

Bill "reserves right to reverse policy" S.
 
K

Klydesdale

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...> When I say a bike is "custom", I mean "the
bike was built with a customized
> selection of components, and nothing about the bike is stock." If I say my bike "has a custom
> frame," that means that the frame was custom-made for me, to my specs, and is not a production
> model. Many cyclists commonly refer to "custom bikes" that are built with off-the-shelf production
frames.
> In fact, the *majority* of custom bikes are built with production frames. (See
> http://www.speedgoat.com/speedgoat/gallery/galleryDate.asp for
example.
> What percentage of the custom bikes in their gallery are based upon truly custom-made frames?)
>
> Note that just because a frame is hand-made doesn't make it a "custom frame." However, *any* frame
> with a completely customized parts spec is generally referred to as a "custom" or "customized"
> bike. I've been using this definition of "custom bike" for about a decade now, and have never
been
> asked to explain my meaning. It seems to be a commonly accepted
definition.
>

That's the commonly accepted definition? You could have fooled me. Since I built my Curtlo Advanced
Mountaineer when people ask me what type of bike I ride, I just tell them a custom steel hardtail,
the first questions they ask are who built the frame and how I went about specifying and ordering
it. There seems to be a tacit understanding a custom MTB means having a frame designed to your
specifications.
 
B

B. Sanders

Guest
"KLydesdale" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:4Uudnb1xOaVDc[email protected]...
>
> "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...> When I say a bike is "custom", I mean
> "the bike was built with a customized
> > selection of components, and nothing about the bike is stock."

> That's the commonly accepted definition? You could have fooled me. Since
I
> built my Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer when people ask me what type of bike
I
> ride, I just tell them a custom steel hardtail, the first questions they
ask
> are who built the frame and how I went about specifying and ordering it. There seems to be a tacit
> understanding a custom MTB means having a frame designed to your specifications.

Ok, then how *do* you communicate clearly that your bike - not the frame; but the bike as a whole -
was customized to your specs? If you don't say "custom bike," then what *do* you say? It's not
accurate to simply say "I ride a Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer," unless you don't believe that
component choices matter. There's no such thing as a stock Curtlo, so it has to be "built to order."
That's the dictionary definition of custom.

The vast majority of people don't even realize that bike frames can be ordered with precise,
personalized geometry (they don't even know what "frame geometry" means, so there's no point in
confusing the matter).

<understatement>It's not the only ambiguous adjective in the English language.</understatement
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "KLydesdale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...> When I say a
bike
> > is "custom", I mean "the bike was built with a customized
> > > selection of components, and nothing about the bike is stock."
>
> > That's the commonly accepted definition? You could have fooled me.
Since
> I
> > built my Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer when people ask me what type of
bike
> I
> > ride, I just tell them a custom steel hardtail, the first questions they
> ask
> > are who built the frame and how I went about specifying and ordering it. There seems to be a
> > tacit understanding a custom MTB means having a
frame
> > designed to your specifications.
>
> Ok, then how *do* you communicate clearly that your bike - not the frame; but the bike as a whole
> - was customized to your specs? If you don't say "custom bike," then what *do* you say? It's not
> accurate to simply say "I ride a Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer," unless you don't believe that
component
> choices matter. There's no such thing as a stock Curtlo, so it has to be "built to order." That's
> the dictionary definition of custom.
>
> The vast majority of people don't even realize that bike frames can be ordered with precise,
> personalized geometry (they don't even know what "frame geometry" means, so there's no point in
> confusing the matter).
>
> <understatement>It's not the only ambiguous adjective in the English language.</understatement>
>
>

It should go without saying that if you buy a frame, at some point you're going to make choices
about what parts go on it. Some people may pick each individual part, and others may just buy a
build kit. In the end a choice is still made about what goes on the bike. A newbie might call this a
custom bike, but I don't think knowledgeable riders would. We could always take a poll in this ng if
you don't believe that statement.

If someone says "custom bike" the first thing that comes to mind for me is a handmade frame,
built after consultation with the buyer. If you have a Weyless frame, built up with the hottest
shite around, it still doesn't make it a custom bike. All it is, is a frame you built up with
parts that you picked out. You can pull out your dictionary and argue that your bike fits the
definition of 'custom', if that makes you feel cooler. Just don't expect anyone in this ng, or
your LBS to buy into it.

-matt
 
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