B
B. Sanders
Guest
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "KLydesdale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...> When I say a
> bike
> > > is "custom", I mean "the bike was built with a customized
> > > > selection of components, and nothing about the bike is stock."
> >
> > > That's the commonly accepted definition? You could have fooled me.
> Since
> > I
> > > built my Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer when people ask me what type of
> bike
> > I
> > > ride, I just tell them a custom steel hardtail, the first questions
they
> > ask
> > > are who built the frame and how I went about specifying and ordering
it.
> > > There seems to be a tacit understanding a custom MTB means having a
> frame
> > > designed to your specifications.
> >
> > Ok, then how *do* you communicate clearly that your bike - not the
frame;
> > but the bike as a whole - was customized to your specs? If you don't
say
> > "custom bike," then what *do* you say? It's not accurate to simply say
"I
> > ride a Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer," unless you don't believe that
> component
> > choices matter. There's no such thing as a stock Curtlo, so it has to be "built to order."
> > That's the dictionary definition of custom.
> >
> > The vast majority of people don't even realize that bike frames can be ordered with precise,
> > personalized geometry (they don't even know what "frame geometry" means, so there's no point in
> > confusing the matter).
> >
> > <understatement>It's not the only ambiguous adjective in the English language.</understatement>
> >
> It should go without saying that if you buy a frame, at some point you're going to make choices
> about what parts go on it. Some people may pick
each
> individual part, and others may just buy a build kit. In the end a choice is still made about
> what goes on the bike. A newbie might call this a custom bike, but I don't think knowledgeable
> riders would.
Do you have any proof of your assertion? And if so, does it necessarily keep me from using
my definition, in absence of a dictionary reference? IOW: Why should I care what you think?
Make me care.
> We could always take a poll in this ng if you don't believe that statement.
> If someone says "custom bike" the first thing that comes to mind for me
Sample of one. Opinion noted.
> a handmade frame, built after consultation with the buyer. If you have a [Insert Brand Here]
> frame, built up with the hottest shite around, it still doesn't make it a custom bike.
Yes, it does.
> All it is, is a frame you built up with parts that you picked out.
Again, I ask the very simple question: What word do you choose to describe a bike that was entirely
built to order, as opposed to being purchased as a stock configuration? Which English word is most
commonly used to describe that? Not a paragraph. A word. One word. If you want to argue semantics,
you must be prepared to offer counterexamples (words that better express meaning).
> You can pull out your dictionary and argue that your bike fits the definition of 'custom', if that
> makes you feel cooler.
A dictionary is a reference tool, used to establish a baseline of understanding regarding semantics.
Nothing more. I don't feel "cooler" by establishing a common reference frame. It's the only way to
proceed rationally. We could, instead, attempt epistemological analysis, if you prefer. "X is custom
if and only if" and that sort of thing. Is that your preferred analytical framework? Go right ahead.
> Just don't expect anyone in this ng, or your LBS to buy into it.
My expectations about this NG are dropping daily, sorry to say.
-=B=-
>
> "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "KLydesdale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...> When I say a
> bike
> > > is "custom", I mean "the bike was built with a customized
> > > > selection of components, and nothing about the bike is stock."
> >
> > > That's the commonly accepted definition? You could have fooled me.
> Since
> > I
> > > built my Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer when people ask me what type of
> bike
> > I
> > > ride, I just tell them a custom steel hardtail, the first questions
they
> > ask
> > > are who built the frame and how I went about specifying and ordering
it.
> > > There seems to be a tacit understanding a custom MTB means having a
> frame
> > > designed to your specifications.
> >
> > Ok, then how *do* you communicate clearly that your bike - not the
frame;
> > but the bike as a whole - was customized to your specs? If you don't
say
> > "custom bike," then what *do* you say? It's not accurate to simply say
"I
> > ride a Curtlo Advanced Mountaineer," unless you don't believe that
> component
> > choices matter. There's no such thing as a stock Curtlo, so it has to be "built to order."
> > That's the dictionary definition of custom.
> >
> > The vast majority of people don't even realize that bike frames can be ordered with precise,
> > personalized geometry (they don't even know what "frame geometry" means, so there's no point in
> > confusing the matter).
> >
> > <understatement>It's not the only ambiguous adjective in the English language.</understatement>
> >
> It should go without saying that if you buy a frame, at some point you're going to make choices
> about what parts go on it. Some people may pick
each
> individual part, and others may just buy a build kit. In the end a choice is still made about
> what goes on the bike. A newbie might call this a custom bike, but I don't think knowledgeable
> riders would.
Do you have any proof of your assertion? And if so, does it necessarily keep me from using
my definition, in absence of a dictionary reference? IOW: Why should I care what you think?
Make me care.
> We could always take a poll in this ng if you don't believe that statement.
> If someone says "custom bike" the first thing that comes to mind for me
Sample of one. Opinion noted.
> a handmade frame, built after consultation with the buyer. If you have a [Insert Brand Here]
> frame, built up with the hottest shite around, it still doesn't make it a custom bike.
Yes, it does.
> All it is, is a frame you built up with parts that you picked out.
Again, I ask the very simple question: What word do you choose to describe a bike that was entirely
built to order, as opposed to being purchased as a stock configuration? Which English word is most
commonly used to describe that? Not a paragraph. A word. One word. If you want to argue semantics,
you must be prepared to offer counterexamples (words that better express meaning).
> You can pull out your dictionary and argue that your bike fits the definition of 'custom', if that
> makes you feel cooler.
A dictionary is a reference tool, used to establish a baseline of understanding regarding semantics.
Nothing more. I don't feel "cooler" by establishing a common reference frame. It's the only way to
proceed rationally. We could, instead, attempt epistemological analysis, if you prefer. "X is custom
if and only if" and that sort of thing. Is that your preferred analytical framework? Go right ahead.
> Just don't expect anyone in this ng, or your LBS to buy into it.
My expectations about this NG are dropping daily, sorry to say.
-=B=-