What a waste of 2 months! What should I do?

[Little Lance]

Well, I just bought a Felt F3 2010, ordered it in december and it just arrived two days ago and, while it was good to start with I feel gutted. The clearance between the chainstays is tiny so everytime I stand up the frame flexes (or wheel, I do not know) and rubs against the tyre (or wheel flexes and rubs against frame). I have used three different sets of wheels and they all do the same. Just to let you know that I'm 63kg so, excuse my french, its bull**** that I should be able to flex Felt's 2nd top of the line frame. What do you think I should do?
Little L.

 

[alienator]

How do you know the tire's are rubbing the frame and not the brake blocks? It's highly unlikely that the rubbing is the result of any frame flex, unless the frame is broken. Wheels are the more likely source of the problem.

What wheels have you tried?

Are you sure the quick releases are appropriately tight?

Are you sure the wheel (I'm assuming this is happening in only the rear....) is centered in the frame?

Are the brake blocks properly centered on the wheel?

How much clearance is there between the wheel and the brake blocks? How about between the leading edge of the rear wheel and the chainstays?

Do you have any pictures?

 

[Little Lance]

Yep, the wheels are properly centred, it is obvious it is rubbing on the stays because there is rubber residue on it. I have tried Fulcrum Racing 5, Rol Race SL and Mavic Ksyrium Elite,

Little L

 

[dhk2]

Something is seriously off here. Grab the wheel and push it hard back and forth in the plane of the stays, and watch what happens. You might find the skewer is slipping, or a rear dropout screw is missing, or the frame is broken, but the failure ought to be visible.

When you see what's moving, that the bike back to the dealer for a warranty fix or replacement. As long as you've waited, they should give you a loaner bike if needed.

 

[alfeng]

What do you think I should do?

FWIW. I would be sick, too, if I threw down about £2500 for a new bike and it wasn't capable of handling more than a 700-19 tyre (if that) ...

Contact FELT, directly, through their web site ... it sounds like a flaw in the fabrication OR (worse) in the design.

AND, I recommend that you go back to your bike shop and express your concerns, ASAP ... and (before waiting for a reply from FELT), indicate that you would appreciate receiving a replacement frame OR a full credit against another bike (they can swap the components from the FELT to the other frameset if there is an issue of the shop being left with "used" parts).

BTW. Nice bike "on paper" ... I hope you don't have any hassles getting a replacement frame.

In the future (I presume you will continue to grow in the next 2-to-4 years and need another, larger frame), think about a Colnago frameset (your SRAM components should easily/hopefully last much more than 16000 km and you should be able to move them over to the next frame) ... OR a Pinarello or Bianchi if you want a ready-to-ride bike ...

Well, if nothing else, you now know one reason why I think that a laterally stiff wheel is important.

 

[dhk2]

alfeng, have to ask why you would recommend a teenager buy a Colnago or Pinarello. It's not as if all Felts and other major "value-priced" brands have problems like the one he's experiencing, or have any performance advantage over the beautiful legendary italian names. Those might be nice bikes for rich older guys, but can't see why a kid needs to even consider one......most teens have enough fantasies already

 

[alfeng]

alfeng, have to ask why you would recommend a teenager buy a Colnago or Pinarello. It's not as if all Felts and other major "value-priced" brands have problems like the one he's experiencing, or have any performance advantage over the beautiful legendary italian names. Those might be nice bikes for rich older guys, but can't see why a kid needs to even consider one......most teens have enough fantasies already

THAT's an excellent question!

If I were Little Lance's folks, I would not have bought him that FELT ...

And, if it was his own trust fund money, then I would have advised against his buying it because he will undoubtedly grow 2-to-8 more inches in the next 2-to-4 years and that FELT will probably be too small for him to ride by the time he is 20.

As it is, I figure that either Little Lance has deep pockets or his folks have deep pockets; and so, there's no reason for him to be messing about with less than he can afford.

If 'I' were choosing a bike for a 15 year old rider, it would probably have an alloy frame (although someone recently pointed out a sweet deal on a ready-to-ride CF bike which would have been about a third the cost of LL's FELT) which would have cost about 1/4 as much & has 8-speed SORA shifters/etc. which I would immediately jettison (and, resell on eBay) & replace with a pair of 10-speed, non-QS shifters .. and, leave everything else (except the tyres/tubes & saddle) the same.

Having said that, the particular FELT bike is theoretically a nice bike despite having SRAM RED components ...

AND, as I stated a few weeks (?) ago, I think that all SRAM aficionados should anticipate cosmetically different (and, perhaps a mechanically enhanced left shifter with more indents) shifters as soon as May of this year ... and, the recent announcement of the new, supposedly 105-priced APEX group reenforces my impression that new-and-improved shifters are in the wings because SRAM probably has to unload a lot of handle bodies which were probably/originally going to be used for their general production of the RED/FORCE/RIVAL shifters.

IMO, now-more-than-ever is not the time to be buying an off-the-peg SRAM equipped bike, but no one asked-or-is-asking me ...

OF COURSE, I could be wrong as to when SRAM brings out some new shifters for Lance-and-company to use, but what better time than for this year's racing season?

If there are no cosmetically new SRAM shifters slated for 2010, then why not?!?

SRAM has had a year to consider what Shimano & Campagnolo came out with last year ...

If not now (i.e., 2010), then when?

 

[Little Lance]

I have taken it to my LBS and they recommended re dishing the wheels to fit the frame. To be honest this is quite stupid as I would have to have all my wheels redished to even fit in the frame, and considering with a 700x23 there is about 1mm spacing on either side.
@alfneg, I assure you I do not have deep pockets and, im not a shunter who has just started riding. I have been riding for nearly 5 years, started with an alloy Cannondale R300 and then a second hand 2006 Giant TCR C2. And I'm letting you know that we only payed 2750. I would probably recommend that Felt at least put a 2 mm or so cutout in the chainstays to atleast allow some wheel flex.

Little L

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I have taken it to my LBS and they recommended re dishing the wheels to fit the frame. To be honest this is quite stupid as I would have to have all my wheels redished to even fit in the frame, and considering with a 700x23 there is about 1mm spacing on either side.
@alfneg, I assure you I do not have deep pockets and, im not a shunter who has just started riding. I have been riding for nearly 5 years, started with an alloy Cannondale R300 and then a second hand 2006 Giant TCR C2. And I'm letting you know that we only payed 2750. I would probably recommend that Felt at least put a 2 mm or so cutout in the chainstays to atleast allow some wheel flex.

Little L

That is dumb...it needs to be a warranty.

Fiets - Fiets Forum - Wiel wel erg dicht bij staande buis

Another Felt problem.

 

[dhk2]

Sorry I didn't read your first post better; missed the "tiny clearance" part totally. Suppose I brushed that part off because it's hard to envision Felt selling a frame with 1mm clearance for a 23 tire, or your LBS for putting a new bike like this out the door. Any LBS should do a set up check and test ride on a new bike to prevent this kind of problem; shame on both Felt and the LBS for disappointing you. The biggest thing the LBS dealer has to offer over direct online sales is their quality control and set up prior to the sale, and they failed.

 

[alfeng]

I have taken it to my LBS and they recommended re dishing the wheels to fit the frame. To be honest this is quite stupid as I would have to have all my wheels redished to even fit in the frame, and considering with a 700x23 there is about 1mm spacing on either side.
@alfneg, I assure you I do not have deep pockets and, im not a shunter who has just started riding. I have been riding for nearly 5 years, started with an alloy Cannondale R300 and then a second hand 2006 Giant TCR C2. And I'm letting you know that we only payed 2750. I would probably recommend that Felt at least put a 2 mm or so cutout in the chainstays to atleast allow some wheel flex.

Little L

First, I agree with you that your LBS is trying to blow smoke when he suggests that you redish your rear wheel to compensate for dubious frame fabrication and/or questionable design.

FWIW. I'm not the arbiter of what someone else should ride ... or, the bike(s) a person should own.

And, I would not have commented so extensively on your bike or component selection if dhk2 had not asked ...

BUT, regardless of how skilled you are as a rider, in racing situations you have to look at a CF frame as disposable ... that's okay if you are sponsored rider, but can be a bit pricey for aspiring riders.

And, with your exposure to the components that are available, you should know that the current RED shifters really aren't any better than the FORCE/RIVAL or even the soon-to-be-available APEX shifters ... so, it unnecessary conspicuous consumption -- heck, I have a frameset which most would say falls into that category.

To make a long story short (yes, this is 1/3rd the original length of this reply + an old pic of my supposedly-nicer-than-most CF frame with some random components has not been included), IMO, the primary advantage of a CF frame is to the manufacturer, to the distributor and to the local bike shop ...

Nothing wrong with that because commerce has its place in modern society.

Secondarily, a CF frame is good for some Weight Weenies + a CF frame can often be damn good for dubious bragging rights ...

Again, NOTHING wrong with that.

But, I still think your money could have been spent better if you had bought a different bike and/or different components because £2750 is not a small amount for most people to spend on a bike, even for aspiring competitive riders ...

Next time, you can be a wiser shopper.

 

[dhk2]

Interesting link indeed. That last photo with the GP4000 touching the seat tube is amazing. It's hard to believe Felt would market a CF frame that doesn't have clearance for 23mm tires. Good thing for the photos too, as dutch isn't one of my better languages

 

[alienator]

Re-dish to accomodate the frame? Someone needs to take away that mechanic's truing stand before he hurts someone.

I didn't realize that Felt was having such QC problems. The Felt frame on that Dutch forum is, uhm, amazing: what a huge error that is. For something like that to happen, something has to be mucho wrong on the production line.

 

[curby]

You can further diagnose this problem yourself by putting a properly dished rear wheel (without cassette installed) in the frame, measure how close your tire is to each chainstay using some kind of feeler guage (a deck of cards will do the trick if you've got nothing else). then remove the wheel and flip it over, installing it backwards, and re-measure. if the measurements are different then the frame is not in alignment. you an use this information to quantify your omplaint to the LBS or Manufacturer. Again you must use a properly dished rear wheel to make this assessment.

good luck

 

[oldbobcat]

That is dumb...it needs to be a warranty.

Fiets - Fiets Forum - Wiel wel erg dicht bij staande buis

Another Felt problem.

You read Dutch, eh, Peter?

Thanks for for the link, it clears up a lot. Especially with the photo. Until now I though Specialized was the only vendor that ever shipped frames with insufficient clearance for normal tires.

Ditto on dishing the wheel to try to accommodate a defective frame.

So what other Felt problems are you aware of, Peter?

 

[Peter@vecchios]

You read Dutch, eh, Peter?

Thanks for for the link, it clears up a lot. Especially with the photo. Until now I though Specialized was the only vendor that ever shipped frames with insufficient clearance for normal tires.

Ditto on dishing the wheel to try to accommodate a defective frame.

So what other Felt problems are you aware of, Peter?

Nope, just got the picture from a Dutch guy I correspond with. I haven't heard/seen many Felt problems since their early days, in the early 90s, when we got many that saw the rear tire touch both sides of the chainstays on the inside. Aluminum tri frame. Had to put a rod in there and smack it to dimple the nside of the stays so a tire would fit.

With so much made off shore, out of sight or out of observation, as they pump these things out, gonna see more of this type of thing, IMO.

 

[oldbobcat]

With so much made off shore, out of sight or out of observation, as they pump these things out, gonna see more of this type of thing, IMO.

This is so much like the Specialized Roubaix fiasco of 2008, a run with rear brake bridges too low to clear 25s or even a fatter 23.

Will every company that uses offshore jobbers need to wade into a mess like this at least once? **** happens when you're not watching.

 

[roadhouse]

This is so much like the Specialized Roubaix fiasco of 2008, a run with rear brake bridges too low to clear 25s or even a fatter 23.

Will every company that uses offshore jobbers need to wade into a mess like this at least once? **** happens when you're not watching.

that's what Toyota must be thinking right about now...

 

[Peter@vecchios]

that's what Toyota must be thinking right about now...

There is poor design and poor manufacturing. I think the Specialized and Felt examples are poor manufacturing, Toyota is poor design, IMO.

 

[roadhouse]

There is poor design and poor manufacturing. I think the Specialized and Felt examples are poor manufacturing, Toyota is poor design, IMO.

specialized and felt should NEVER have those types of flaws, nor should toyota regardless of maufacturing or design, imo. much too highly respectable and much too long in the game.

and those accelerators from toyora are not even toyota parts so to speak but from what i understand rather they purchase those pieces from company x and put them in so somewhere along the lines those same lines were crossed (manufacturing, design and overseeing) as someone was simply just not paying attention.

i can't imagine buying a bike and not being able to put on 25 tires or rubbing. thankfully for myself, i didn't buy a specialized roadie 'till' 08 and all the kinks are gone.

btw, are you the shop owner of your store?