What about a Triple (50,40, 30) with Campy Med Cage Der?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Appkiller, Feb 5, 2004.

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  1. Appkiller

    Appkiller Guest

    I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife that if
    I die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. So, in my growing paranoia about this ride,
    I have been thinking of throwing my old Sugino triple crankset on the bike with the Campy med
    cage rear der.

    If I use my 12-25 on the back, will the der handle the range? Or will the triple be unnecessary if I
    use a 13-29 cassette? I can pretty much climb walls with a 39/29.

    Oh, and BTW, if anyone has any advice about this ride, preparations, or comments, feel free. I
    did 4700 miles last year on the relatively smaller hills west of Madison and I plan on having at
    least 2000 under my belt by the time of the ride. I have done back to back centuries (Sat/Sun)
    and the Wright Stuff Century (for those who know it) averaging ~16 mph. Not real fast but I think
    a decent pace.

    App
     
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  2. Appkiller wrote:

    > I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife that if I
    > die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. So, in my growing paranoia about this ride, I
    > have been thinking of throwing my old Sugino triple crankset on the bike with the Campy med cage
    > rear der.
    >
    > If I use my 12-25 on the back, will the der handle the range? Or will the triple be unnecessary if
    > I use a 13-29 cassette? I can pretty much climb walls with a 39/29.
    >
    > Oh, and BTW, if anyone has any advice about this ride, preparations, or comments, feel free. I
    > did 4700 miles last year on the relatively smaller hills west of Madison and I plan on having at
    > least 2000 under my belt by the time of the ride. I have done back to back centuries (Sat/Sun)
    > and the Wright Stuff Century (for those who know it) averaging ~16 mph. Not real fast but I think
    > a decent pace.

    That will work, if you shorten the chain appropriately.

    See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ca-m.html#capacity

    The stock front derailer will work, but poorly. Shifting between the middle and small chainring will
    require care and skill, and you'll likely need to do a good deal of "trimming" of the front derailer
    as you shift in back.

    Sheldon "Better Than Walking" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
    | In order to understand recursion, | first, you have to understand recursion. |
    +--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  3. Tad Borek

    Tad Borek Guest

    Appkiller wrote:
    > I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife that if I
    > die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. So, in my growing paranoia about this ride, I
    > have been thinking of throwing my old Sugino triple crankset on the bike with the Campy med cage
    > rear der.
    >
    > If I use my 12-25 on the back, will the der handle the range? Or will the triple be unnecessary if
    > I use a 13-29 cassette? I can pretty much climb walls with a 39/29.
    >
    > Oh, and BTW, if anyone has any advice about this ride, preparations, or comments, feel free. I did
    > 4700 miles last year on the relatively smaller hills west of Madison and I plan on having at least
    > 2000 under my belt by the time of the ride.

    A 30/triple isn't necessary but would be nice to have as a bail-out. I would assume it would work OK
    with a med-cage rear (haven't tried it tho). [RBT content ends here]

    It's hard to guess how your legs will react to all that climbing until you do it. The climbs are not
    all that steep except on a couple short pitches, and there is that issue of going "too low" and
    slowing down as a result. Certainly a 29 is good to have but a lot of people seem to be OK with a 25
    to 27 low end (if you're racing-fit you may get by w/a 23). An 11 or 12 is nice b/c there are some
    5-min+ stretches where you can spin it out, but better to have gears at the other end where you'll
    spend the bulk of your time.

    As for prep - Madison as in Wisco? - these are looong in-the-saddle climbs & closest simulation
    might be riding 40-60 min flats into a strong headwind, and soft-pedalling with a tailwind (repeat).
    Mentally long climbs can be challenging but I think riding rollers is actually more taxing. If you
    can ride 100s then the main issues are familiar - soreness, comfort, eating, despondency. =) Being
    surrounded by a mob helps a lot.

    If you haven't ridden at altitude you might want to arrive at least a few days early to acclimatize
    a bit. Follow climber's mantra: "climb high, sleep low" (grab a Basque feast down in Minden to
    recharge!) Also re: altitude you might want to read up a bit on preventing water intoxication aka
    hyponatremia...which is more common when exercising in this type of setting (long event, high
    altitude, warm arid air).

    I think the DR site has extensive tips & you may find similar in archives of ba.bicycles. Some of
    these issues (incl gearing) are discussed a bit if you dig around on the Everest Challenge web site
    though those climbs are much steeper & higher-altitude. http://www.everestchallenge.com/

    -Tad
     
  4. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 5 Feb 2004 13:47:50 -0800, [email protected] (Appkiller) wrote:

    >If I use my 12-25 on the back, will the der handle the range? Or will the triple be unnecessary if
    >I use a 13-29 cassette? I can pretty much climb walls with a 39/29.

    Glad you already won the lottery for a spot. The climbs are long and there are only a couple of
    short sections that are over 10% and less than 12%. 5-6% is a lot of the climbing. I've done the
    ride yearly since '94, excepting 2002 where I didn't score in the lottery. I used a 39/28 and I'm a
    poor climber. It's not about climbing walls but endurance.
     
  5. pete-<< I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife
    that if I die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. >><BR><BR>

    I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious injury', type stuff
    in the title.

    A50/40/30 and 12/25 or 13-29 and medium rear cage will work fine.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Appkiller

    Appkiller Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in part:

    "I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious..."

    I think in this case it is more marketing than reality (for any fit cyclist). My brother-in-law used
    to race mtn bikes but hadn't ridden much in a coupla years and he did the two most difficult passes
    last year - on his front suspended mtn bike (slicks, however).

    I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF! The only cattle grates I have seen would be pretty damn
    dangerous to take a bike over just walking it.

    What's up with that?

    App
     
  7. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 06 Feb 2004 14:20:14 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    >I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious injury', type stuff
    >in the title.

    The promoters of the ride now call is "Tour of the California Alps" and the views are unforgettable.
    It's quite a thrill to see 2700 riders climbing mountain passes in the High Sierra on sometimes
    narrow, winding roads. The riders are often crazy. They get to see almost every hazardous turn on
    the ascent and then go over the edge on the decent.
     
  8. Tad Borek

    Tad Borek Guest

    Appkiller wrote:
    > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF! The only cattle grates I have seen would be pretty damn
    > dangerous to take a bike over just walking it.

    A bike does just fine going over a cattle grate, unless you're barely moving while riding over a
    wet one, or for some odd reason steer sharply or lose grip on your bars mid-grate. It's is a bit
    like MTB where it can be a lot worse to brake hard to deal w/an obstruction than to simply let the
    bike go over it. I imagine a hard-braked front wheel would be unpredictable when hitting a grate,
    esp on a turn & esp if damp. Otherwise it's just a vvvvvvvt (if you don't hop it) or whoooosh-thwop
    (if you do).

    I think the biggest grate hazard is at one of the food stops (Ebbetts?) which has one at the crest
    of the climb and some people hop off & try to walk over instead of riding, which in cleats is way
    harder than just ticking over it. I.e., it causes a pedestrian hazard in a narrow (tho slow) spot
    on the road.

    In same vein there's the possible hazard of someone braking unexpectedly to over-prepare for
    the grate.

    So just ride on through and watch for pedestrians and stopped bikes. =)

    -Tad
     
  9. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > pete-<< I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife
    > that if I die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious injury', type
    > stuff in the title.
    >

    Peter: IIRC, this ride was originally advertised separately as *both* the "Markleeville Death Ride"
    and the "5 Passes Tour". 15 riders showed up for the "Death Ride", 1 showed up for the "Tour".
    Advertising counts for a lot.

    Maybe Mike at Chain Reaction can straighten me out- this may be an urban legend.

    Jeff
     
  10. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Appkiller wrote:

    > I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year...I have been thinking of throwing my old Sugino
    > triple crankset on the bike with the Campy med cage rear der.
    >
    > If I use my 12-25 on the back, will the der handle the range? Or will the triple be unnecessary if
    > I use a 13-29 cassette? I can pretty much climb walls with a 39/29.

    Here's a little secret: The grades in the Death Ride are not terribly steep, there's just a lot of
    climbing for one day. Ebbetts, Monitor, and Carson are pretty moderate grades; I've never used lower
    than a 42/26 on them. Now Pacifc Grade and Sonora Pass are really steep in sections. There I end up
    using a 30/21 or even a
    30/23.

    > Oh, and BTW, if anyone has any advice about this ride, preparations, or comments, feel free.

    The biggest problem I see with riders on long climbs is not having trained their legs enough. If
    your legs aren't used to that much climbing in one day, they may start complaining after a few
    passes, and you won't be having very much fun. To get those leg muscles acccustomed to the extended
    stress, try to do rides of several thousand feet, increasing the vertical in successive weeks.

    I'm leading my second annual "Kiss of Death" ride this May, after the passes open. Sonora, Monitor,
    Ebbetts, and Pacific Grade, but over two days. It's about 220 miles and 23,000', over two days. It
    was a big hit last year. I'm thinking of reversing the route this year, so the hard day comes first.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  11. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    [email protected] (Appkiller) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in part:
    >
    > "I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious..."
    >
    > I think in this case it is more marketing than reality (for any fit cyclist). My brother-in-law
    > used to race mtn bikes but hadn't ridden much in a coupla years and he did the two most difficult
    > passes last year - on his front suspended mtn bike (slicks, however).
    >
    > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF! The only cattle grates I have seen would be pretty damn
    > dangerous to take a bike over just walking it.
    >
    > What's up with that?
    >
    > App

    Dear App,

    Walking a bike over a cattle guard would be dangerous because your feet might well go through
    between the bars, but motorcycles and cars roll right over them--and bicycles usually have even
    bigger wheels.

    Maybe you've seen only some incredibly dilapidated cattle guards? Remember, they're built to handle
    the weight of cars with smaller tires. Even a Moulton wheel or a golf cart will cross a normal
    cattle guard.

    From a tire's point of view, cattle guards are no worse than a brief rumble strip or patch of
    washboard road. There's just short buzz as you cross the bars.

    The usual problem, in fact, is not the metal bars, but the spot where concrete edge of the bar-
    covered pit meets the dirt or paved road. The pothole there may be worth dodging because it's wider
    and the lip may be higher.

    Now I'm wishing that Gary Larson had drawn a Far Side cartoon with his ubiquitous cows experimenting
    with wheels to cross the guards, something like the one with the dog scientists studying the
    intricacies of the door-knob.

    Moo!

    Carl Fogel
     
  12. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Appkiller wrote about the Markleeville Death Ride:

    > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF!

    There are bad cattle grates and not-so-bad cattle grates. The bad ones are in the middle of a curve,
    impossible to see until you're upon it, and really tricky when wet. The good ones are in the middle
    of a straight section. Fortunately, the cattle grates on the Death Ride are of the not-so-bad type.

    When I'm descending and see a cattle grate, I:

    1) get off the saddle, with pedals in 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock position,
    2) aim straight for the grate,
    3) relax my arms and release the brakes.

    Other than a little buzz in the hands and feet, I hardly notice them.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  13. B.C. Cletta

    B.C. Cletta Guest

    [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    > m10.aol.com>...
    > > pete-<< I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been warned by my wife
    > > that if I die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear about it. >><BR><BR>
    > >
    > > I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious injury', type
    > > stuff in the title.
    > >
    >
    > Peter: IIRC, this ride was originally advertised separately as *both* the "Markleeville Death
    > Ride" and the "5 Passes Tour". 15 riders showed up for the "Death Ride", 1 showed up for the
    > "Tour". Advertising counts for a lot.
    >
    > Maybe Mike at Chain Reaction can straighten me out- this may be an urban legend.
    >
    > Jeff

    yeah, that's the way i remember it. of course, you can always check with the source (& a cheap
    plug for a really nice couple): <http://www.waynesue.com/>

    85 MDR, the last real one: Daggett, Carson, Luther, Monitor & Ebbetts
     
  14. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Appkiller wrote about the Markleeville Death Ride:
    >
    > > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF!
    >
    > There are bad cattle grates and not-so-bad cattle grates. The bad ones are in the middle of a
    > curve, impossible to see until you're upon it, and really tricky when wet. The good ones are in
    > the middle of a straight section. Fortunately, the cattle grates on the Death Ride are of the not-so-
    > bad type.
    >
    > When I'm descending and see a cattle grate, I:
    >
    > 1) get off the saddle, with pedals in 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock position,
    > 2) aim straight for the grate,
    > 3) relax my arms and release the brakes.

    I've never ridden over one, but I would think that as long as they are dry, and you go over them
    straight, they wouldn't be a major problem.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  15. Eric M

    Eric M Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Appkiller wrote about the Markleeville Death Ride:
    >
    >> I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    >> grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF!
    >
    >There are bad cattle grates and not-so-bad cattle grates. The bad ones are in the middle of a
    >curve, impossible to see until you're upon it, and really tricky when wet. The good ones are in the
    >middle of a straight section. Fortunately, the cattle grates on the Death Ride are of the not-so-
    >bad type.

    Then there are the ones with a ridge sticking up where the pavement ends and the grate begins. If
    they're on a descent, you can either slow down, or speed up and bunny-hop the whole thing... gotta
    make sure you clear it though, I've come up short too many times.

    I only remember one cattle guard on the Death Ride, at the top of Ebbets. Unfortunately last year
    they put an aid station right next to it. With lots of riders stopping and starting the road was not
    clear enough for me to get any speed, so I walked it.

    Eric
     
  16. Bruce Graham

    Bruce Graham Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]_ids.net says...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Appkiller wrote about the Markleeville Death Ride:
    > >
    > > > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > > > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF!
    > >
    > > There are bad cattle grates and not-so-bad cattle grates. The bad ones are in the middle of a
    > > curve, impossible to see until you're upon it, and really tricky when wet. The good ones are in
    > > the middle of a straight section. Fortunately, the cattle grates on the Death Ride are of the
    > > not-so-bad type.
    > >
    > > When I'm descending and see a cattle grate, I:
    > >
    > > 1) get off the saddle, with pedals in 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock position,
    > > 2) aim straight for the grate,
    > > 3) relax my arms and release the brakes.
    >
    > I've never ridden over one, but I would think that as long as they are dry, and you go over them
    > straight, they wouldn't be a major problem.
    >
    >
    Cattle grids are OK. Lots of them down here in Australia in the outback. Ours are usually made of
    old railway line sometimes a foot apart, maybe 8 or 10 rails. They ride OK (even with panniers) if
    you keep speed at about 20Km/hr or so and keep the weight off the seat and relax your arms. Makes a
    bit of noise. Thats with touring tyres (28-32mm). I haven't tried them with normal road tyres and I
    have never seen one wet.

    Up in the the Northern Territory, quite a few cattle grids ride a lot easier. The "grid" is just
    painted. Presumably, they need a few real ones to keep the cattle wary.

    Bruce Graham
     
  17. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    David Kerber <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Appkiller wrote about the Markleeville Death Ride:
    > >
    > > > I was looking at some journals of the ride I found on the web and one of them mentioned cattle
    > > > grates on the descents. Yikes! and WTF!
    > >
    > > There are bad cattle grates and not-so-bad cattle grates. The bad ones are in the middle of a
    > > curve, impossible to see until you're upon it, and really tricky when wet. The good ones are in
    > > the middle of a straight section. Fortunately, the cattle grates on the Death Ride are of the
    > > not-so-bad type.
    > >
    > > When I'm descending and see a cattle grate, I:
    > >
    > > 1) get off the saddle, with pedals in 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock position,
    > > 2) aim straight for the grate,
    > > 3) relax my arms and release the brakes.
    >
    > I've never ridden over one, but I would think that as long as they are dry, and you go over them
    > straight, they wouldn't be a major problem.

    Dear Dave,

    I think you'll do fine, even in the rain. Dryness is less important than not being a cow.

    Painted cattle guards actually exist, although they don't work as well as the real thing. Amazingly,
    bold stripes mimicking the real thing on an asphalt road will cow timid cattle.

    When cattle guards are outlawed, only outlaws will guard cattle. --Rustler Ault

    Carl Fogel
     
  18. Lefty

    Lefty Guest

    On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, B.C. Cletta wrote:
    ][email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    ]> [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    ]> > pete-<< I am doing the Markleeville Death Ride this year and have already been
    ]> > warned by my wife that if I die on the ride, she doesn't want to hear
    ]> > about it. >><BR><BR>
    ]> >
    ]> > I stay away from rides or places that have 'death, extreme, heart stop, serious
    ]> > injury', type stuff in the title.
    ]> >
    ]>
    ]> Peter: IIRC, this ride was originally advertised separately as *both*
    ]> the "Markleeville Death Ride" and the "5 Passes Tour". 15 riders
    ]> showed up for the "Death Ride", 1 showed up for the "Tour".
    ]> Advertising counts for a lot.
    ]>
    ]> Maybe Mike at Chain Reaction can straighten me out- this may be an
    ]> urban legend.
    ]>
    ]> Jeff
    ]
    ] yeah, that's the way i remember it. of course, you can always
    ]check with the source (& a cheap plug for a really nice couple):
    ]<http://www.waynesue.com/>
    ]
    ]85 MDR, the last real one: Daggett, Carson, Luther, Monitor & Ebbetts

    And if that's not enough, try the "Furnace Creek 508" Through the canyon at night, to 29 Palms in
    the morning (2nd day).
     
  19. Dan

    Dan Guest

    I have finished all five passes the last three years running. The cattle guards are not a problem.
    All of them have a couple of flat strips that you can ride if you line yourself up carefully -
    that's what I did. The strips are steel bars welded on top of the guard running in the direction of
    travel. They are about 0.25 inches thick and 1.5 inches wide. It is kinda fun to ride them. Even if
    you don't ride the flat strips, the guards are no problem if you keep your speed up.

    The ride is long but not really hard since most of the climbing is at a slope of 13% or less. There
    are a few spots that might be 20% but they only last a few yards. I only ride about 1500 miles a
    year (Fred) but it is 50% climbing and 50% descent.

    My advice is:
    1) Lose weight before the ride so you aren't hauling useless flab.
    2) Go slow - it's about finishing.
    3) Drink before you get thirsty.
    4) Eat before you get hungry.
    5) Slow down before you get tired.

    The main challenge of the ride is pacing yourself for 10 to 14 hours of endurance and a sore butt.
    Once you get tired, hungry and thirsty you are finished. Practice riding hard for at least a 4-hour
    ride without stopping. The elevation does not seem to be a problem for most riders. If you are a
    slow rider, plan to start before the official start and carry lights. It is usually quite cold until
    the sun comes up but I have never carried a jacket, wore tights or long sleeves. I am very happy
    when the sun arrives.

    Check the elevation, temperature and slope profiles at:
    http://www.geocities.com/danmerrick/deathride2003/
     
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