what derailleurs for loaded touring, suggestions?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by christianbr, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. christianbr

    christianbr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Putting my touring bike toghether. Does anyone know good derailleurs to use? I've been looking on shimanos new stew, but i think it's really ugly. Lookes like cheap plastic space ships.
    I found something called simplex. Both front and rear derailleur looks great, does someone now about performance compared to newer stuff?
    I havent bought cassette yet, but I have a tripple sugino xd2 500 crankset.
    I have the same question regarding shifters, I will put them on the maintube, so I dont think there are any modern ones to put there.
    Thanks for any help!
     
    Tags:


  2. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    4
    Simplex are not index compatible, for click shifters. Look at XT, hard to beat for durability and function. DON'T get the 'low normal' one, get the 'high normal' one. As for shifters, get shimano DT 9s shifters, then get any shimano 9s MTB type cogset, like 11-34. Use any triple FD that matches the chainset rings, ie, matches the 'arc' If fairly big rings, like 48-50 big ring, get a road triple FD, like 6503(Ultegra for 9s).
     
  3. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    0
    A Shimano road brifter won't drive a Shimano MTB FD, but a Campy one will. You could use two Campy brifters with Campy long-cage RD/cluster/ chain and Shimano FD/crankset, or else Campy left brifter and Shimano right brifter with Shimano running gear, which is the set up I have on my tourer. No reason not to use a long-cage road RD on your tourer if you don't like the look of the MTB gear.
     
  4. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    4
    He said-"I have the same question regarding shifters, I will put them on the maintube", downtube shifters, friction for the front der. That will drive a triple FD fine.

    Also, the Campag 'long cage', now part of the triple subgroups, are long like shimano MTB Rder long cage but the Record/Chorus/Centaur, etc 'long' cage is actually the 'medium cage' from 2006, and not long enough for extreme gearing like this gent may need. Even if it isn't extreme, a true long cage doesn't hurt anything.
     
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    If you are really planning on doing LOADED TOURING then you probably don't want to use downtube shifters ...

    At the very least, you should consider bar-end shifters ... either OLDER, SunTour friction (or, equivalent) shifters, or contemporary Shimano bar-end shifters.

    Almost ALL Shimano rear derailleurs are an EXCELLENT choice, and your wallet & aesthetic sensibilities should be your guide ...

    My impression is that (other than capacity) the low-end DEORE rear derailleurs are functionally equivalent to an XTR, but the XTR is significantly lighter. The XT is a common choice because it is a little less expensive than the XTR but use the same pulley wheels, and the XT are marginally more nicely finished than the LX (or, DEORE). Perhaps the only Shimano rear derailleurs that should not be selected are the few that are still used on the few, low-end, 7-speed bikes that are still sold -- not because they don't work, but because a few more dollars really puts you into a better design.

    There is even less difference between the least expensive & most expensive Shimano front derailleurs -- the clamp is nicer & more alloy is used on the more expensive front derailleurs.

    BTW. With regard to derailleurs, TANDEM riders have been mating Campagnolo shifters with Shimano MTB rear derailleurs/cassettes for years because Campagnolo rear derailleurs have a large cog size limit akin to that of Shimano ROAD rear derailleurs. Most of the Shimano MTB rear derailleurs (LX, or "better") can handle a 34t cog -- if you only have to bail out onto a 32t-or-34t cog ONE TIME, then it will have been worth having it.

    Subjectively, I would suggest to you that the Campagnolo ERGO shifters are the best for LOADED TOURING because:
    • the derailleur cables will not preclude using a handlebar bag
    • more importantly, a Campagnolo shifter can downshift when under load (i.e., going uphill)
    NB. Most Simplex derailleurs were really marginal, IMO. The nicest were exquisite to look at, but the "common" ones made with Delrin (the "carbon fiber" of their period) were not structurally sound (again, that's just my opinion).

    Check eBay for some older Shimano XT (750 series) derailleurs ["normal" rise] ... I think NEW OLD STOCK derailleurs are still available.
     
  6. christianbr

    christianbr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for all help, I will have to go back and read your answears a few times moore before I decide what to do ( im new to this bicycle stuff). Regarding the shifters, what I meant was to put them on the downtube, I wrote maintube but I think you understood anyway.
    For the moment I still think I will use downtube friction shifters just because this seems like the simplest design, and I really want to stay simple. For the moment I ride a crescent with downtube friction shifters and I think it works great, but I never ride it loaded and only short distances.
    Aswell I just found that there are new downtube index shifters aswell.
     
  7. curby

    curby New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    0
    shimano downtube shifters are friction for the front and index or friction for the rear... sometimes we forget this! and the friction mode is excellent

    all's'miles

    curby
     
  8. christianbr

    christianbr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems that shimanos main difference in rear derailleurs are the following:

    Top-Normal for Precision up shifting and emergency downshifting. Preferred by traditonal and gravity riders: Best matched with RAPIDFIRE Plus.

    Low-Normal for The smoothest shifting under load, drive train durability and pre-selecting gears : Best matched with DCL.

    GS and SGS for difference in how many teeths they support on the largest cog wheel.

    I couldnt find the term "long cage" anywhere on their site, what could it mean?
    Anyways, it seems like the low-normal would be best to use when loaded, according to shimano.
     
  9. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    0
    SGS is long cage, GS is shorter cage. They both take the same maximum rear sprocket size.
     
  10. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    Actually, AFAIK, GS is the "normal" long cage found on Shimano ROAD rear derailleurs & pre-1998 Shimano MTB rear derailleurs ... and, SGS is the current longer cage that is common on most Shimano MTB rear derailleurs, now. The longer SGS cage is to ensure that excess chain is accomodated when you are using something like an 11-34 cassette & a triple crank.
     
  11. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    0
    He's looking at MTB RDs, so I gave him the appropriate spec for that. I think the SGS spec has long been considered the MTB norm for long-cage.
     
  12. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    4
    SGS is the longest cage. Why they use 'GS' and SGS' for medium and lng beats me. I wouldn't use a low normal RD(backfire plus) with barcons. Altho they would work, they would work backward.
     
  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    FWIW.
    GS == Gran Sport ... a euphemism for "touring" (non-racing) ... using the abbreviation by the boys in Osaka is undoubtedly an echo of the legacy of the 60s-and-earlier in the Euro tradition of abbreviating (e.g., SL == Supra Leggera [i.e., extra light], or something like that ... GTO == Gran Turismo Omologato [i.e., grand touring homologated/(sanctioned)], or something like that)



    As you may recall, the touring version of the Shimano CRANE rear derailleur was given the GS label ...




    Hence:
    SGS == Super Gran Sport ... extra/extended/(more) touring






     
  14. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    4
     
  15. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    0
    Aren't there a few breeds of MTB with a single chainring? A shorter cage is a little less likely to snag stuff.
     
  16. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    My recollection is that there were originally THREE different cage lengths for the XTR 950 rear derailleur ... with the shortest being the same as on a regular ROAD rear derailleur (my understanding is that it was intended for Downhillers) ... the GS cage was/is the same as the ROAD long cage (I use one of those XTR 950 GS rear derailleurs on one of my ROAD bikes!) & was presumably intended for MTB racers who used a smaller cluster (e.g., 12-28 8-speed) ... and, the SGS.

    The SGS cage length seems to have become the de facto standard with the advent of Shimano's 9-speed MTB groups. I didn't know if Shimano actually offered the shorter MTB derailleur cages, now ... but, I presume they do based on your comment. Regardless, the rear derailleur cages can obviously be substituted for one another as an after-thought.

    You are absolutely correct that there is very little reason for Shimano to offer shorter derailleur cages for their MTB rear derailleurs, particularly now that there are Downhill-specific derailleurs ... but, that is akin to saying that Campagnolo (and, Shimano) should only make long cage ROAD rear derailleurs!

    Since I'm not racing, I don't mind dragging a few extra links of chain around -- it's easy enough to remove a bad "inch" of chain on a chain that is too long when you are on-the-road than when the chain length is the "perfect" length for the drivetrain ...

    And, when asked, I always try to encourage people to buy the longest cage that is available for a particular rear derailleur ... few heed my suggestion!

    While it's easy enough to see what the boys in Osaka have done, are doing, and subsequently forecast what they will probably do, I can't fully explain why they (specifically, their marketing department, I suppose) don't refer to anything other than their 48t 104BCD chainring as intended for touring EXCEPT that touring is a limited & non-glamorous segment of the cycling market for which they probably feel the 6600 GS (which I refer to as a 6603, BTW ... plus, equivalent 105 GS rear derailleur) is adequate. To admit cross-compatibility of components would be to encourage mixing-and-matching rather than full group purchases ...

    ... When I first started to use STI shifters (yawn!?!), I was told that components were group specific ... so, when I mated an XTR rear derailleur + 11-32 XT cassette to some Ultegra shifters I suppose it was a big deal ... but, not as big a deal as mating those same components with Campagnolo shifters! Nonetheless, years later, I can't convince people who say they want to put a Campy group on their next bike that they can mate a pair of 10-speed ERGO shifters to their existing Shimano drivetrain ...
     
  17. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    FWIW/FYI. The LEFT Shimano SIS downtube shifter that I had was actually indexed -- real/intended, or pseudo-/unintended -- if you (that is, if 'I') pulled it to the obvious "index stop" it would move the derailleur cage 5mm (or, whatever the distance is to get it from one ring to another) ... and, if you (again, 'I') moved it beyond the "stop" you/'I' could pull the chain onto the third chainring of a triple crankset. The RIGHT shifter was a 7-speed.

    BTW. This issue of the indexing (or, lack of) on the LEFT Shimano bar-end came up recently ... my recollection is that it had the same indexing capability as the Shimano SIS downtube shifters ... but, I still haven't rummaged around enough to locate my set of Shimano (8-speed) bar-ends to confirm indexing, or not.
     
  18. sud35

    sud35 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Along the same lines as this thread. I have an Ultegra GS RD (9 speed 6500) on my wife's Giant CRX (flat bar road) and I'm trying to put an XT 11-34 cassette on it. It has a double 50/36 front, rapid9 shifters (all shimano) Is there any way to get it to work? I tried fitting it all last night, but the top jockey wheel rubs on the cassette, the RD body seems to be just a bit too high. Do I have to run a MTB RD with this cassette, or can I maybe use a longer RD hanger? I've only just read that the RD6500 has a max sprocket of 27, why is it so different to a MTB RD GS? Any ideas?
    Cheers, Jason.
     
  19. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    4
    Use any shimano long cage, HIGH NORMAL, rear derailleur. Like an Deore, XT, etc. The longer cage allows you to have enough chain length for big-big combo and not breaking the chain while also having enough top pulley to large cog clearance to prevent that rubbing sound you are hearing with essentially a 'mid cage' rear derailleur.
     
  20. sud35

    sud35 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Peter, Just ordered a long cage XT M771 from Wiggle, got it on special for 54 aussie dollars, sweet.
     
Loading...
Loading...