What difference would a 115g saving in tyre weight make?

[41]

Art Harris wrote:
> 41 wrote:

> > By the way, are your cu rrent Road Winners from Japan or Korea, and what
> > width are they in real life? 28 or 25? And do you have tanwall or
> > blackwall? I am wondering if they were resized or relabelled when
> > production shifted to Korea, like Avocets were. Thinking of stocking up
> > mail order and wanting to be sure of what I am getting.
>
> I use my oldest ones first, so I still have a bunch of newer ones in
> storage. But they all have tan sidewalls and the same labels, so I'm
> guessing they were all made in Japan. The ones I've mounted measure 25
> mm on the rim. All bought from Nashbar, but I didn't see them in the
> latest catalog. Currently listed on their website on sale at $9.95.

Thanks for the info. When I looked, last spring or last year, Nashbar
had only the blackwall, even though the picture was of tan. It seems
now they are tanwall, and made in Korea. I can't help wondering if they
changed the sizing in the newer production, since I believe the
labelling laws changed.

Funnily, I just noticed than an old pair of Kendas on my former
commuter bicycle is marked both 700x35 and 37-622. So I guess
mislabelling can be either way. The 27x1-1/8 (therefore 28mm) Pasela I
just received is marked 26-622.


 

[Art Harris]

41 wrote:
> When I looked, last spring or last year, Nashbar
> had only the blackwall, even though the picture was of tan. It seems
> now they are tanwall, and made in Korea. I can't help wondering if they
> changed the sizing in the newer production, since I believe the
> labelling laws changed.

Very interesting. I hope someone can give us a first hand report on the
current Road Winners being sold by Nashbar. Based on what I've heard
about the Korean made Avocets, it may be time to look for a different
brand.

Art Harris

 

[Chris M]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Artoi wrote:
> > My bike presently has a set of Conti UltraSport 700cX25. If I change it
> > to a set of new Grand Prix 4000 with a saving of 115g/tyre, what
> > practical differences would I be able to feel during my rides? Is it a
> > weight saving that'll be obvious?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > --
>
> Practical differences...less punctures with the Ultrasports...and less
> expensive..seems like the choice is an easy one. Don't expect a lighter
> tire to make a significant difference in your riding performance.

I agree with Senor Campy and add these remarks as well;

I would recommend changing only the front tire. If you are easy enough
on tires to handle a GP4000 in the rear, then try an Ultra Sonic for
the front paired with it (if you don't care for the 2 packs that Conti
sells). I have used both combos (not the 2-pack thought) and they are
excellent training and racing tires depending on road conditions and
your weight. You sound like you are smarter than the average cyclist,
since you already discovered the 25 width that so many American
(larger) riders should be using in the rear if not for both.

Oh, the difference will be in feel. They feel more supple and uh, it is
hard to describe. I am not sure it is worth it in the rear but for me,
I do prefer the handling of good supple front tire. I never notice a
lighter tire or wheel in the rear except when accelerating or climbing
out of the saddle. The lighter inertia makes it feel more lively side
to side. That is about it. After many years of running Veloflex Pave
(180 grams in a tire a bit smaller than the typical 23s you find now)
for the front and a good quality 700*23 200 to 220 grams front. I also
tried (as I said above) the Ultrasonic front and rear and then the
Vittoria tire of the same class (700*23 weight about 160 grams). and
for training I now use 25s in the rear and nice 200 to 220 gram front
tires and they are the perfect blend for me in feel and reliability.
That is why I mention the weight. You can almost tell the weight of the
tires by the way they feel, especially in the sizes that allow you to
run 95 to 105 psi. They also generally last as you would expect for the
lighter tires. The other major factor is the runner compound and
durometer. Maxxis quotes durometer on their tires but most brands you
have to search for the fine print. The ultimate tires without regard to
price""" would be a dual compound 700*25 rear tire at about
200-210grams and the front would be a high volume 22 or typical 23
single durometer, equal to the softer compound in the rear tire in
about 170 to 190 grams, no Kevlar or equivalent stiff belts, just keep
your eyes open and enjoy the smooth ride!


"""A good sale price can completely change my priorities! Most of these
factors fall under the category of "bang for the buck" and Performance
Bike shop has their own brand that changes every time I buy some but
they have had some good tires for the past few years. I forget the
models but there are 2 I like, one is available in 700*26 and the other
is 20 or 23 only . Use the 23 for the front and rear, or use the 26 in
the rear only. Up to 200 pound guys can run 90 psi all day in those
tires)

 

[Donald Gillies]

"Chris M" <[email protected]> writes:


>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> Artoi wrote:
>> > My bike presently has a set of Conti UltraSport 700cX25. If I change it
>> > to a set of new Grand Prix 4000 with a saving of 115g/tyre, what
>> > practical differences would I be able to feel during my rides? Is it a
>> > weight saving that'll be obvious?
>> >
>> > Thanks.

Chances are that you've already worn 50 grams off the tires you
already own. If you change to GP4000's you'd feel about $80 lighter
in the pocketbook, that's the main difference you would feel.

Seriously, I had a bike with 25mm x GP3000's and CXP21/Ultegra wheels.
Not the lightest rims - comparable to my other wheels, but the tires
were light. The main thing I noticed on that bike is that I could not
store momentum in the wheels. You pedal like hell to go fast, and as
soon as you pause to coast you're going slow again.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:

> Seriously, I had a bike with 25mm x GP3000's and CXP21/Ultegra wheels.
> Not the lightest rims - comparable to my other wheels, but the tires
> were light. The main thing I noticed on that bike is that I could not
> store momentum in the wheels. You pedal like hell to go fast, and as
> soon as you pause to coast you're going slow again.

Gosh, physics is a double edged sword!

Thanks for the advice.
--

 

[Artoi]

Thanks for the reply and wow, quite a bit to digest.

Let me just get this right. You are suggesting that I can get an even
nicer ride by running different front and rear tyres? Yes, I am
relatively light weight at 65kg/145lb and don't really stress the wheels
that much given that cycling is primarily for fitness with no racing, so
GP4000 rear and UltraSonic front would be your suggestion? I guess the
other issue is trying to go down to 23mm tyre. Is that worth it?

Given that I've newly returned to cycling with a new bike, I am keen to
experiment a bit. So a little extra expenditure here and there won't
worry me too much. And I wouldn't mind getting things sorted out over
the next few weeks before some long distance rides (50/90km, short by
you guys' standard) I have planned.

Any further suggestions?


In article <[email protected]>,
"Chris M" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree with Senor Campy and add these remarks as well;
>
> I would recommend changing only the front tire. If you are easy enough
> on tires to handle a GP4000 in the rear, then try an Ultra Sonic for
> the front paired with it (if you don't care for the 2 packs that Conti
> sells). I have used both combos (not the 2-pack thought) and they are
> excellent training and racing tires depending on road conditions and
> your weight. You sound like you are smarter than the average cyclist,
> since you already discovered the 25 width that so many American
> (larger) riders should be using in the rear if not for both.
>
> Oh, the difference will be in feel. They feel more supple and uh, it is
> hard to describe. I am not sure it is worth it in the rear but for me,
> I do prefer the handling of good supple front tire. I never notice a
> lighter tire or wheel in the rear except when accelerating or climbing
> out of the saddle. The lighter inertia makes it feel more lively side
> to side. That is about it. After many years of running Veloflex Pave
> (180 grams in a tire a bit smaller than the typical 23s you find now)
> for the front and a good quality 700*23 200 to 220 grams front. I also
> tried (as I said above) the Ultrasonic front and rear and then the
> Vittoria tire of the same class (700*23 weight about 160 grams). and
> for training I now use 25s in the rear and nice 200 to 220 gram front
> tires and they are the perfect blend for me in feel and reliability.
> That is why I mention the weight. You can almost tell the weight of the
> tires by the way they feel, especially in the sizes that allow you to
> run 95 to 105 psi. They also generally last as you would expect for the
> lighter tires. The other major factor is the runner compound and
> durometer. Maxxis quotes durometer on their tires but most brands you
> have to search for the fine print. The ultimate tires without regard to
> price""" would be a dual compound 700*25 rear tire at about
> 200-210grams and the front would be a high volume 22 or typical 23
> single durometer, equal to the softer compound in the rear tire in
> about 170 to 190 grams, no Kevlar or equivalent stiff belts, just keep
> your eyes open and enjoy the smooth ride!
>
>
> """A good sale price can completely change my priorities! Most of these
> factors fall under the category of "bang for the buck" and Performance
> Bike shop has their own brand that changes every time I buy some but
> they have had some good tires for the past few years. I forget the
> models but there are 2 I like, one is available in 700*26 and the other
> is 20 or 23 only . Use the 23 for the front and rear, or use the 26 in
> the rear only. Up to 200 pound guys can run 90 psi all day in those
> tires)

 

[Ron Ruff]

Artoi wrote:
> GP4000 rear and UltraSonic front would be your suggestion?

Wouldn't be my suggestion... as I said before (and I think there is a
table somewhere in this thread), Conti tires have high rolling
resistance... but maybe that doesn't matter to you. Personally, if I'm
going to get high resistance then I want the tires to be cheap... or
super tough like Armadillos.

Putting a good "racing" type tire on the front is a good idea though,
since for me anyway, I never get front flats and the front tread lasts
3-4 times as long as the rear. So I use a cheaper and/or more durable
tire on the rear. On the rear I'm presently using IRC Redstorms
purchased from Price Point for $12.50 each, with Pro2s on the front
bought at Probikekit for $26 each. The 20mm Pro2s are ~21.5mm and the
23mm are ~24mm... so the 20s work ok on the front if your roads are
decent or if you have aero rims. The Redstorms are ~23mm.

 

[Art Harris]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> Seriously, I had a bike with 25mm x GP3000's and CXP21/Ultegra wheels.
> Not the lightest rims - comparable to my other wheels, but the tires
> were light. The main thing I noticed on that bike is that I could not
> store momentum in the wheels. You pedal like hell to go fast, and as
> soon as you pause to coast you're going slow again.

What was the weight difference of the tires in your comparison? It's
hard to believe that 100 grams or so would have such a large effect on
the momentum of a bike + rider system of about 200 pounds.

Art Harris