What do Jens Voigt and Bob Dylan have in common?



J

Jason Spaceman

Guest
They've both been called 'Judas'.

-----------------------
For CSC rider Jens Voigt the ride up the Alpe d?Huez turned into a living nightmare.
Not because he was going badly, but because of all the abuse he had to take from Jan
Ullrich fans shouting ?Judas? at him, writes Susanne Horsdal.

On Tuesday?s stage to Villard de Lans, the German rider was ordered to work hard at
the front of the Lance Armstrong/Ivan Basso group. Voigt did his job dutifully, and
effectively neutralised Ullrich?s attack. That act didn?t go down well with a large
group of the German spectator?s amongst the million-strong turn-out on Alpe d?Huez.
In his diary on sport1.de, Voigt explains the terrible experience he had and how
much it hurt him.

?Today was anything but a nice stage for me ? the thorn of disappointment is sitting
deep. I have nothing positive to say about the myth of Alpe d?Huez and the many
enthusiastic spectators. The Jan Ullrich fans who don?t understand that I was
chasing him in the service of my team captain Ivan Basso on stage 15 were shouting
insults of the worst kind at me. All the way up the mountain people were booing at
me and showing Judas-posters the size of bedsheets with my name on it.
------------------------

Read it at http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=323




J. Spaceman

--
My email address ([email protected]) is fake. Email sent to it will
only get caught in my spam tarpit.
 
It is amazing to me to hear this story unfold over the past day. Don't those
hooligans know anything
about pro cycling? Jens races for CSC and his loyalty is to Basso, not
fellow German Ullrich.
They just cant get over the fact that Ullrich blew it this year and are
taking out their anger on the
other riders. They should have been upset that Jan waited 16 stages to show
decent form.
What a bunch of sore losers.


"Jason Spaceman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They've both been called 'Judas'.
>
> -----------------------
> For CSC rider Jens Voigt the ride up the Alpe d?Huez turned into a living

nightmare.
> Not because he was going badly, but because of all the abuse he had to

take from Jan
> Ullrich fans shouting ?Judas? at him, writes Susanne Horsdal.
>
> On Tuesday?s stage to Villard de Lans, the German rider was ordered to

work hard at
> the front of the Lance Armstrong/Ivan Basso group. Voigt did his job

dutifully, and
> effectively neutralised Ullrich?s attack. That act didn?t go down well

with a large
> group of the German spectator?s amongst the million-strong turn-out on

Alpe d?Huez.
> In his diary on sport1.de, Voigt explains the terrible experience he had

and how
> much it hurt him.
>
> ?Today was anything but a nice stage for me ? the thorn of disappointment

is sitting
> deep. I have nothing positive to say about the myth of Alpe d?Huez and the

many
> enthusiastic spectators. The Jan Ullrich fans who don?t understand that I

was
> chasing him in the service of my team captain Ivan Basso on stage 15 were

shouting
> insults of the worst kind at me. All the way up the mountain people were

booing at
> me and showing Judas-posters the size of bedsheets with my name on it.
> ------------------------
>
> Read it at http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=323
>
>
>
>
> J. Spaceman
>
> --
> My email address ([email protected]) is fake. Email sent

to it will
> only get caught in my spam tarpit.
 
Hmmm. I was thinking more along the links of a song "Tangled up in Blue" ...
;)

David

"Jason Spaceman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They've both been called 'Judas'.
>
> -----------------------
> For CSC rider Jens Voigt the ride up the Alpe d?Huez turned into a living

nightmare.
> Not because he was going badly, but because of all the abuse he had to

take from Jan
> Ullrich fans shouting ?Judas? at him, writes Susanne Horsdal.
>
> On Tuesday?s stage to Villard de Lans, the German rider was ordered to

work hard at
> the front of the Lance Armstrong/Ivan Basso group. Voigt did his job

dutifully, and
> effectively neutralised Ullrich?s attack. That act didn?t go down well

with a large
> group of the German spectator?s amongst the million-strong turn-out on

Alpe d?Huez.
> In his diary on sport1.de, Voigt explains the terrible experience he had

and how
> much it hurt him.
>
> ?Today was anything but a nice stage for me ? the thorn of disappointment

is sitting
> deep. I have nothing positive to say about the myth of Alpe d?Huez and the

many
> enthusiastic spectators. The Jan Ullrich fans who don?t understand that I

was
> chasing him in the service of my team captain Ivan Basso on stage 15 were

shouting
> insults of the worst kind at me. All the way up the mountain people were

booing at
> me and showing Judas-posters the size of bedsheets with my name on it.
> ------------------------
>
> Read it at http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=323
>
>
>
>
> J. Spaceman
>
> --
> My email address ([email protected]) is fake. Email sent

to it will
> only get caught in my spam tarpit.
 
"Brian P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It is amazing to me to hear this story unfold over the past day. Don't

those
> hooligans know anything
> about pro cycling? Jens races for CSC and his loyalty is to Basso, not
> fellow German Ullrich.
> They just cant get over the fact that Ullrich blew it this year and are
> taking out their anger on the
> other riders. They should have been upset that Jan waited 16 stages to

show
> decent form.
> What a bunch of sore losers.
>
>


It just goes to reinforce the theory that if Hamilton had beaten LANCE, he
would have been treated like a pariah in the USA.
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brian P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > It is amazing to me to hear this story unfold over the past day. Don't

> those
> > hooligans know anything
> > about pro cycling? Jens races for CSC and his loyalty is to Basso, not
> > fellow German Ullrich.
> > They just cant get over the fact that Ullrich blew it this year and are
> > taking out their anger on the
> > other riders. They should have been upset that Jan waited 16 stages to

> show
> > decent form.
> > What a bunch of sore losers.
> >
> >

>
> It just goes to reinforce the theory that if Hamilton had beaten LANCE, he
> would have been treated like a pariah in the USA.
>
>


I don't agree. I think because of the bravery Hamilton has exhibited, he's
made himself an underdog hero. If anyone were to knock off Armstrong, I'm
sure most Americans would have preferred it to be Hamilton versus any
foreigner ... or even Levi for that matter. I think Americans who know the
sport at all would have felt Tyler was a deserving winner.

But that's all speculation now, isn't it. Too bad.

Bob C.
 
Jason Spaceman <[email protected]> wrote:

>They've both been called 'Judas'.
>
>-----------------------
>For CSC rider Jens Voigt the ride up the Alpe d?Huez turned into a living nightmare.
>Not because he was going badly, but because of all the abuse he had to take from Jan
>Ullrich fans shouting ?Judas? at him, writes Susanne Horsdal.
>
>On Tuesday?s stage to Villard de Lans, the German rider was ordered to work hard at
>the front of the Lance Armstrong/Ivan Basso group. Voigt did his job dutifully, and
>effectively neutralised Ullrich?s attack. That act didn?t go down well with a large
>group of the German spectator?s amongst the million-strong turn-out on Alpe d?Huez.
>In his diary on sport1.de, Voigt explains the terrible experience he had and how
>much it hurt him.


So maybe Americans AREN'T the most clueless nationalistic morons on
the planet...
--dt
 
Pariah? Ridiculous. This has nothing to do with the riders. This is all
about a few classless drunken german fans of T-mobile that dont
understand cycling.

If Tyler, Levi, any other American would have beaten Lance, there would be
disappointment from the Lance fans. However,
very doubtful that spitting, cursing, middle fingers or terms like Judas
would be used. It's just a friggin bike race.


"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brian P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > It is amazing to me to hear this story unfold over the past day. Don't

> those
> > hooligans know anything
> > about pro cycling? Jens races for CSC and his loyalty is to Basso, not
> > fellow German Ullrich.
> > They just cant get over the fact that Ullrich blew it this year and are
> > taking out their anger on the
> > other riders. They should have been upset that Jan waited 16 stages to

> show
> > decent form.
> > What a bunch of sore losers.
> >
> >

>
> It just goes to reinforce the theory that if Hamilton had beaten LANCE, he
> would have been treated like a pariah in the USA.
>
>
 
Brian P wrote:

> Pariah? Ridiculous. This has nothing to do with the riders. This is all
> about a few classless drunken german fans of T-mobile that dont
> understand cycling.
>
> If Tyler, Levi, any other American would have beaten Lance, there would be
> disappointment from the Lance fans. However,
> very doubtful that spitting, cursing, middle fingers or terms like Judas
> would be used. It's just a friggin bike race.
>


Yeah, dude, because there are no classless drunken american fans of USPS.

Get real
 
Jason Spaceman wrote:

> They've both been called 'Judas'.
>
> -----------------------
> For CSC rider Jens Voigt the ride up the Alpe d?Huez turned into a living nightmare.
> Not because he was going badly, but because of all the abuse he had to take from Jan
> Ullrich fans shouting ?Judas? at him, writes Susanne Horsdal.
>
> On Tuesday?s stage to Villard de Lans, the German rider was ordered to work hard at
> the front of the Lance Armstrong/Ivan Basso group. Voigt did his job dutifully, and
> effectively neutralised Ullrich?s attack. That act didn?t go down well with a large
> group of the German spectator?s amongst the million-strong turn-out on Alpe d?Huez.
> In his diary on sport1.de, Voigt explains the terrible experience he had and how
> much it hurt him.
>
> ?Today was anything but a nice stage for me ? the thorn of disappointment is sitting
> deep. I have nothing positive to say about the myth of Alpe d?Huez and the many
> enthusiastic spectators. The Jan Ullrich fans who don?t understand that I was
> chasing him in the service of my team captain Ivan Basso on stage 15 were shouting
> insults of the worst kind at me. All the way up the mountain people were booing at
> me and showing Judas-posters the size of bedsheets with my name on it.
> ------------------------
>
> Read it at http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=323
>



From Jans homepage (bad translation by me):

"""
[...]
One final thing I have to say:
There was one thing I found sad yesterday, and that's what happend to my
mate Jens Voigt. That he was berated as "traitor" and "Armstrong shill
(helper?)" made me sad. Jens just did what every cycling professional
would have done in his stead. In cycling there is the unwritten rule
that you have to wait for your captain if there is need. And there was
need for Basso! Jens, you acted completely right."
 
You get real. There are classless drunks everywhere. But yesterday, Germany
just happened to dominate.

Just sour grapes and no clue.

"Ernst Noch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brian P wrote:
>
> > Pariah? Ridiculous. This has nothing to do with the riders. This is all
> > about a few classless drunken german fans of T-mobile that dont
> > understand cycling.
> >
> > If Tyler, Levi, any other American would have beaten Lance, there would

be
> > disappointment from the Lance fans. However,
> > very doubtful that spitting, cursing, middle fingers or terms like Judas
> > would be used. It's just a friggin bike race.
> >

>
> Yeah, dude, because there are no classless drunken american fans of USPS.
>
> Get real
>
 
Ok, it happens that people are unable to grasp what others say, but
seldom one sees people not able to grasp their own words. But no
problem, I'm here to help you. I've allowed myself to reorder your
writing a little bit, and snip to the core sentences, makes it easier:

You wrote:
>>>This is all about a few classless drunken german fans of T-mobile
>>> that dontunderstand cycling.
>>>If Tyler, Levi, any other American would have beaten Lance, there
>>>would be disappointment from the Lance fans. However,
>>>very doubtful that spitting, cursing, middle fingers or terms like
>>>Judas would be used. [1]


I answered:

>>Yeah, dude, because there are no classless drunken american fans of
>>USPS.
>>
>>Get real



And you then said:

> You get real. There are classless drunks everywhere [2]. But yesterday, Germany
> just happened to dominate.
>
> Just sour grapes and no clue.


Maybe you should decide what your stance is on this.
Either [1] or [2], you decide, but you can't have both.
And please see my other post citing JU regarding idiotic fans, I've no
impetus to defend these retards, germans, basques, french or whatever
nationality.

Oh, and what does your incoherence have to do with anyone having or not
having a clue?

Thanks,
Ernst
 
Carl Sundquist wrote:
> It just goes to reinforce the theory that if Hamilton had beaten LANCE, he
> would have been treated like a pariah in the USA.


A much better comparison would be if Bobby Julich helped Basso beat
Lance. How would Bobby be treated in US then?

Tyler is too admired to be hated, plus he'd have the win, in your
scenario. In the Julich-Basso scenario, a lesser US light helps move
the yellow from US to non-US shoulders.

I abhor the bad behavior of these few German fans, but the above makes
it easier to understand what they are thinking.

Mark
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:23:36 -0400, "Brian P"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>You get real. There are classless drunks everywhere. But yesterday, Germany
>just happened to dominate.
>
>Just sour grapes and no clue.


Today's NY Post headline:

SOUR KRAUTS

German "idiots" spit on Lance.
 
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:33:17 GMT, "Philip Holman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Neither one can sing for ****?
>> Dave


How do you know Jens can't sing?
 

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