what do you think of this frame - is it worth renovating?

[[email protected]]

It's from a specialized rock combo, late 80s.

Here's some spec:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rca3.jpg

Here's a pic:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rc14.jpg

Frame -

triple butted chrome-moly main frame chrome-moly stays and forks

** Questions you might be able to help with: **

* Is this a decent frame

* How much would a new frame of equivalent quality cost today?

* What do you think of the angles - are bikes very different shapes
now?

thanks for the advice

* Should I spend £80 respraying (paintwork is knackered) or buy a new
/ 2nd hand frame?

 

[wafflycat]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It's from a specialized rock combo, late 80s.

Here's some spec:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rca3.jpg

Here's a pic:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rc14.jpg


Well, if you are interested, the October editin of Cycling Plus has an
article on how to build up a cyclocross bike from an old frame such as the
one you have.

Cheers, helen s

 

[Jim Price]

[email protected] wrote:
> It's from a specialized rock combo, late 80s.
> Frame -
>
> triple butted chrome-moly main frame chrome-moly stays and forks
>
> ** Questions you might be able to help with: **
>
> * Is this a decent frame

If its not damaged, then its just fine if its fits and you like it. With
care, it would last years.

> * How much would a new frame of equivalent quality cost today?

Double rather than triple butted, but probably better overall quality
(as a mountain bike on the road) - £69.95 from Merlin. You may well also
need to factor in a different sized seatpost, headset, stem and front
derailleur.

> * What do you think of the angles - are bikes very different shapes
> now?

The frame is old school mountain bike inspired. Things have changed, but
the changes don't sound huge because the numbers have only changed by
relatively small amounts. If you like the feel of the bike as it is,
stick with it. I would expect it to ride comfortably, but the stem would
be too long for me, and I would personally prefer something with faster
sharper handling than the geometry suggests, but without losing the comfort.

> * Should I spend £80 respraying (paintwork is knackered) or buy a new
> / 2nd hand frame?

If you're considering spending £80, and you want the best bike for your
outlay, then the Merlin frame mentioned above will stretch the budget a
little because of the extra bits mentioned above which you would need to
finish the bike - another ~£40-£80. If you're going to get a bike shop
to do all the work, that would also add to the cost.

A second hand frame would be a bit of a lottery, as it may be a
wonderful bargain, or just a previously crashed and bent straight(er)
piece of junk. It would still be quite likely that you would need to
change certain parts as well with a s/h frame.

A friend of mine changed to a Merlin frame as his existing bike frame
was too small for him, and ended up with an excellent bike. He has tried
it with both flat bars and drops with Campag ergo shifters, and both
setups were great.

P.S. Was the photo taken in the USA?

JimP

 

[Doki]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It's from a specialized rock combo, late 80s.

Here's some spec:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rca3.jpg

Here's a pic:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/****her/peugeot/rc14.jpg

It looks interesting, and triple butted means it was a quality bike when
new. You should be able to get it powder coated for £20 or so, which isn't
as lovely and spangly as a respray but keeps the bike from rusting and it at
least looks alright. I'd be inclined to keep it, as it's a bit of an oddity.
A new frame seems cheap, but by the time you've got all the other bits
(headset, stem, possibly new bars if the current ones are an odd diameter,
front mech if the seattube is a different size, most likely BB and so on),
it's not going to be a cheap project any longer.

 

[lubaloo]

thanks Jim - photo isn't my bike but from one that was on ebay.com - it
is a US pic

Could you explain a little more how and why "things have changed" ?

Do you know where I could get replacement rings for the specialized st
2 crank?

 

[lubaloo]

do you know where I could get it powder coated - would i need to sand
down / paint strip the frame before doing this?

thanks

 

[Doki]

"lubaloo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> do you know where I could get it powder coated - would i need to sand
> down / paint strip the frame before doing this?

Powder coating in the yellow pages. I expect you'd need to get the old paint
off, but the people who'll be doing the coating might be able to sandblast
it for you.

 

[Jon_H]

"Doki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "lubaloo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > do you know where I could get it powder coated - would i need to sand
> > down / paint strip the frame before doing this?
>
> Powder coating in the yellow pages. I expect you'd need to get the old
paint
> off, but the people who'll be doing the coating might be able to sandblast
> it for you.
>
>

does anyone have any pics of a powder coated frame so i can tell if it is
worth doing or not as I may be tempted to strip my sons bike and give it a
new lease of life.

cheers
Jon_H

 

[Ian Blake]

>
>Could you explain a little more how and why "things have changed" ?

Marketing mostly and a bit of technical improvement.

>
>Do you know where I could get replacement rings for the specialized st
>2 crank?

You need the BCD or PCD value for the chainrings then you can specify
the rings from your favourite manufacturer. I favour TA Specialities
which are available from the better bike shops. It might be cheaper
to buy a new crank and rings (from a lesser manufacturer) than
replacing all rings.

 

[Jim Price]

lubaloo wrote:
> thanks Jim - photo isn't my bike but from one that was on ebay.com - it
> is a US pic
>
> Could you explain a little more how and why "things have changed" ?

I assume you mean wrt frame design and construction. Some changes have
been purely cosmetic or marketing influenced, and many have been about
just generating more profit. Its now cheaper to make a light frame from
aluminium than most other materials. Some of them are even quite good.
However, the human body hasn't changed much (for fit people, at least)
recently, and there are some very nice frames which are 40 years old and
very good indeed. I ride an old Falcon which I've converted to fixed
gear, and it is a lovely ride. This is because the balance of stiffness
and strength has been chosen to provide that. All the technology needed
to make a comfortable bike has been available for many years. The
efficiency of the bike tends to be a tradeoff with comfort, though.
Modern racing machinery really ought to be more efficient than the old
stuff, but even that is sometimes diverted by demands from sponsors
trying to sell the latest greatest idea. So, for a frame like yours, if
you like it and you have no desire to obtain extra speed or reliability,
then don't change it. These are the things which you would get with a
newer frame which might make improvements, but they will not be worth
anything if they destroy the things you like about your existing bike:

Vertical rear dropouts - chances are you frame has horizontal dropouts.
I like them because they reduce faff when putting a wheel back on. There
may be other issues with hub or fixed gears, though.

Strength to weight ratio - by design, using the same amount of material,
you would be hard pushed to find an old bike frame which is as
out-and-out strong as a new one which is designed to be strong. Use of
larger radius tubes gives added stiffness, but not something you are
going to want if you want to retain comfort, unless you make the
additional stiffnes in areas where comfort is not affected e.g. the head
tube. A 1"1/8 head tube as found on modern bikes is stronger. This is
really only a serious issue for mountain bikers who may actually need
the strength.

Er, that's it for my major issues. Because custom frame builders have
been around since the dawn of the bicycle era, I can't really say that
geometries are better now. They've changed for off the shelf bikes, but
they've changed in a way which reflects the change of view of the
bicycle itself, from utilitarian transport to the eBay-ish "sporting
goods".

Although the cost motive may have started as a way to improve profits,
while the current economic situation continues you can get very good
quality new frames for not much money if you know where to look. So,
really, I have to ask the questions:
Do you like the feel of the bike you've got?
Do you have a desire to try and improve the performance of the bike, and
if so in what areas?

If the answer is yes to the first then its a question of whether you can
achieve the improved performance (because who wouldn't want that)
without changing the frame, and whether that will be economically viable
when balanced against the risk of ending up changing the frame and
finding you don't like the bike with its new frame.

> Do you know where I could get replacement rings for the specialized st
> 2 crank?

You need to establish the BCD (bolt circle diameter) of the rings, as
no-one will likely recognize specialized ST-2 size. It is quite likely
to be 110mm (for the two larger rings), as that was a common size at the
time, but measure it, inspect it for clues (like numbers on the back of
the rings between 70 and 150) or try a ring of a know size against it.

JimP

 

[David Martin]

Doki wrote:
> "lubaloo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > do you know where I could get it powder coated - would i need to sand
> > down / paint strip the frame before doing this?
>
> Powder coating in the yellow pages. I expect you'd need to get the old paint
> off, but the people who'll be doing the coating might be able to sandblast
> it for you.

Any decent powder coater will do the paint removal for you. It is a
good idea when doing such a jobn to keep as little time as possible
between the cleaning and coating for impurities (dirt/rust grease) to
get in and ruin the coating.

I paid 40 gbp for a sparkly black finish on my road bike. This included
powder coat and laquer.

The stages in powder coating are broadly 1. clean frame - done by
blasting with small beads, typically plastic is used these days. 2.
coat with coloured powder, typically using an electrical charge to get
the powder to stick onto the metal. 3. Melt in kiln at a temperature
that is below the point at which changes to the metal will occur but
hot enough that water etc isn't a problem. 4. Repeat 2 and 3 but with a
clear lacquer.

Colour choice is vast. Effects such as colour fades etc can be
included, usually at extra cost.

...d

 

[lubaloo]

so what's the difference between getting a powder coat and getting a
'proper' frame respray at somewhere like Argos?

 

[Doki]

"Jon_H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "lubaloo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > do you know where I could get it powder coated - would i need to sand
>> > down / paint strip the frame before doing this?
>>
>> Powder coating in the yellow pages. I expect you'd need to get the old
> paint
>> off, but the people who'll be doing the coating might be able to
>> sandblast
>> it for you.
>>
>>
>
> does anyone have any pics of a powder coated frame so i can tell if it is
> worth doing or not as I may be tempted to strip my sons bike and give it a
> new lease of life.

Google image search chucks up a few.

 

[James Thomson]

"Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You need to establish the BCD (bolt circle diameter) of the
> rings, as no-one will likely recognize specialized ST-2 size.

Oh ye of little faith!

> It is quite likely to be 110mm (for the two larger rings)

Bingo. 74 for the tiddler.

James Thomson

 

[Ian Blake]

<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>You need to establish the BCD (bolt circle diameter) of the rings, as

BCD is Bolt Circle Dimension (or Distance) it is not a diameter.

http://www.settlecycles.co.uk/BESPOKE/TA/ringsGuide.htm?pid=2299

Sheldon Browns excellent glossary seems to be wrong on this matter his
glossary seems to imply BCD=PCD which it is not.

 

[James Thomson]

"Ian Blake" <NoNotMe@NotAnywhere> wrote:

> BCD is Bolt Circle Dimension (or Distance) it is not a diameter.
>
> http://www.settlecycles.co.uk/BESPOKE/TA/ringsGuide.htm?pid=2299

Nobody else uses that definition. In fact, further down the same page, the
phrase 'bolt circle diameter' is used to describe what the tables above
call PCD.

> Sheldon Browns excellent glossary seems to be wrong on this matter
> his glossary seems to imply BCD=PCD which it is not.

In general usage they're interchangeable.

James Thomson

 

[sothach]

What size is the steerer tube? I had a great Giant steel-framed MTB
from about this era, but when the forks exploded on me (literally, they
where RockShox), I couldn't easily or cheaply get replacements with a
1" steerer. I ended up chucking the frame and transfering all the good
bits to my ex-commuter (ally framed MBK, 1 1/8" steerer) for which
forks are plentyful.

 

[lubaloo]

Jim - thanks for all that info - I appreciate it, very helpful.

 

[lubaloo]

"Do you like the feel of the bike you've got? "
Yes, but I haven't got much experience of anything else

"Do you have a desire to try and improve the performance of the bike,
and
if so in what areas? "

No - I'm happy with the performance. I want practical reliability, I'm
not interested in impressing anyone with the bike (although it was a
different story when I got the bike in 1988!)

 

[Ian Blake]

On 13 Oct 2005 07:08:17 -0700, "lubaloo" <[email protected]> wrote:

>so what's the difference between getting a powder coat and getting a
>'proper' frame respray at somewhere like Argos?

Framebuilders offer extra little services such as sticking new OEM
decals on your bike. So you can have an authentic Specialized Wotsit
in a colour or colours they never made.

You may prefer powder coat to stove enamelling some people do.

There are some amazing paint jobs from Argos, usually belonging to
employees and owners who are able to experiment. None of these are
pictured on the website.

Get your crayons out and colour in a bike.

Framebuilders are also equipped to repair and enhance the frame in any
way you might want.

-------

My view on your project is as follows.

If you love your bike renovate it as best you can. It deserves it.

If it is just a bike, buy a new/sh. one. You deserve it.