T
Thekid
Guest
The issue regarding as stiff ride is funny as everyone is beginning to think that material has
nothing to do with it. The statement below suggest that it's all just perception. Unfortunately,
differences in perception does a cause. And usually the cause is due to one or more small variations
in the item being perceived or variations in the observer himself. When a common perception is
reached by a large population without any interaction between themselves, then it can be argued that
any perceived differences are due to variations in the items being judged and not variations of the
observer. This of course assumes that the eviroment in which the evaluations occur eithr has no
effect or has equal effect on all evaluations.
With that said, I would agree that materials commonly used in the standard issue bike designs would
have no affect on vertical stiffness unless the material compresses significantly. What I mean by
standard issue bike design is the double triangle layout where the seat tube is a common side
between both triangles. Basically, the triagle design is the major factor in determining vertical
stiffness and without compression of material, there is virtually no vertical give. So, what is the
factor that leads to the preception of differences in stiffness? It would be the part of the design
that did not get it's strenght from geometry but rather the material itself. In the case of the
double triangle design, it would be the side to side flex that gives way to the common perception.
The frame just does not have large enough lateral triangles to minimize the effect of material
selection on stiffness. Bottom line, if a person only think in one dimension, vertical, then
material has no effect on stiffness of the bike, but when you think in two dimesions, then the
problem can be clearly seen. The third dimension does not matter much because this dimension is in
line with foreward motion of the bike.
"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "thekid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Steve,
> >
> > First, other than metal fatigue and a stiff ride, I don't think cyclist
> No material gives a stiffer ride than another. It's just perception.
nothing to do with it. The statement below suggest that it's all just perception. Unfortunately,
differences in perception does a cause. And usually the cause is due to one or more small variations
in the item being perceived or variations in the observer himself. When a common perception is
reached by a large population without any interaction between themselves, then it can be argued that
any perceived differences are due to variations in the items being judged and not variations of the
observer. This of course assumes that the eviroment in which the evaluations occur eithr has no
effect or has equal effect on all evaluations.
With that said, I would agree that materials commonly used in the standard issue bike designs would
have no affect on vertical stiffness unless the material compresses significantly. What I mean by
standard issue bike design is the double triangle layout where the seat tube is a common side
between both triangles. Basically, the triagle design is the major factor in determining vertical
stiffness and without compression of material, there is virtually no vertical give. So, what is the
factor that leads to the preception of differences in stiffness? It would be the part of the design
that did not get it's strenght from geometry but rather the material itself. In the case of the
double triangle design, it would be the side to side flex that gives way to the common perception.
The frame just does not have large enough lateral triangles to minimize the effect of material
selection on stiffness. Bottom line, if a person only think in one dimension, vertical, then
material has no effect on stiffness of the bike, but when you think in two dimesions, then the
problem can be clearly seen. The third dimension does not matter much because this dimension is in
line with foreward motion of the bike.
"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "thekid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Steve,
> >
> > First, other than metal fatigue and a stiff ride, I don't think cyclist
> No material gives a stiffer ride than another. It's just perception.
