What Ftp Does A 170 Lb Man Need To Do A 10 Hour Double Century?

[LivingInThePast]

Sorry, that was all tongue-in-cheek. I didn't think anyone would take me seriously just then.

There are some on this thread who thought 270 was more than enough. I'm definitely way short of the necessary wattage. Now I have to either a readjust my goal or just skip the 200 miler.

 

[swampy1970]

I wasn't throwing YOU a lifeline. Someone may do a sub 10 hour ride this year but it is NOT going to be you unless you sprouted another good chunk off all day sustainable power.

How are your long rides going?

 

[kylerlittle]

Very interesting topic, you guys know much better than I do. I'm glad I'm learning a lot on here.

 

[LivingInThePast]

I wasn't throwing YOU a lifeline. Someone may do a sub 10 hour ride this year but it is NOT going to be you unless you sprouted another good chunk off all day sustainable power.

How are your long rides going?

Nowhere. Just finished the Primavera Century in 7 hours. Even with a full coterie of domestiques I'm not going anywhere close to 10 hours in a double. Oh well, maybe next year.

 

[swampy1970]

Nowhere. Just finished the Primavera Century in 7 hours. Even with a full coterie of domestiques I'm not going anywhere close to 10 hours in a double. Oh well, maybe next year.

Just do the ride and have some fun. It's probably one of the best and easiest doubles on the west coast. Some good eats at the lunch stop and at the firestations towards the end.

If anything, despite the revised route for 2015 and the unintended last minute reroute and shortening, you'll get a good idea of what the course offers for when you are mystically fitter than this year.

I haven't been on the bike in the last few weeks. Sadly, not of my own accord, but due to some asswipe running into the back of me on the freeway and totaling my car, then some dickwad running into the back of him. I'll likely be out on the Davis 'almost' Double and will probably make a long day of it and enjoy the ride. Start in the dark and probably finish in it too. But it'll be fun...

 

[LivingInThePast]

Sorry to hear about the wreck. Sounds nasty. Hopefully you'll recover fully?

My problem is that once I start it I know I'm going to finish it and I don't want to be miserable for that long. I still haven't sorted out a hot foot/neuroma problem. My fallback position is to make an intentional century of it and drop out at lunch. There's another century that same day in Gilroy so I could save some $$ and a lot of driving. I've got a few more days to decide.

 

[swampy1970]

Hot foot - get some insoles that fit.

Google "Steve Hogg insoles" and you'll probably end up with a good read.

Also, consider moving your cleats back.

 

[An old Guy]

I don't want to be miserable for that long.

That seems a poor attitude to take into a ride.

 

[BobCochran]

Long years ago when I was a much younger man and a smoker, I did a double century ride on a higher-end Cannondale road bike. It was a fat tube, metal Cannondale. The ride was from Old Sturbridge Village, Massachusetts to Provincetown, Massachusetts. That ride wiped me out and it took me longer than 10 hours. I was among the last people to finish. I had done one 50 mile ride before and that was the sum total of my experience at the time. I just barely made it to the finish line. I thought I was going to die the last 50 miles. Admittedly, my smoking was hurting me bad, but I had trained too shallowly for the ride and I didn't eat right. The major issues for me were the smoking (although I was too much of a tobacco addict to see it at the time) and lack of training.

Today I'm still willing to try a double -- after about a year of training, maybe longer, and a realistic look at my own personal condition.

Bob

 

[swampy1970]

Long years ago when I was a much younger man and a smoker, I did a double century ride on a higher-end Cannondale road bike. It was a fat tube, metal Cannondale. The ride was from Old Sturbridge Village, Massachusetts to Provincetown, Massachusetts. That ride wiped me out and it took me longer than 10 hours. I was among the last people to finish. I had done one 50 mile ride before and that was the sum total of my experience at the time. I just barely made it to the finish line. I thought I was going to die the last 50 miles. Admittedly, my smoking was hurting me bad, but I had trained too shallowly for the ride and I didn't eat right. The major issues for me were the smoking (although I was too much of a tobacco addict to see it at the time) and lack of training.

Today I'm still willing to try a double -- after about a year of training, maybe longer, and a realistic look at my own personal condition.

Bob

Congrats on sticking it out and finishing that double century years ago.

Long rides like doubles are as much about perseverance and attitude as they are training. Sure it helps if you can cruise at 18 to 20 mph in comfort but if you feel comfortable at 16 mph and enjoy the ride then have a fun day on the bike, enjoy the rest stops and have a chat with some folks that you may otherwise never would have met. Resist the urge, at all costs, to go too hard in the first 100 miles. Better to lose 15 minutes in the first half than spend 45 minutes crashed in the final rest stop before the finish completely spent.

 

[dogokientruc]

That was long but a worthwhile read.

I think you are a bit optimistic.

 

[swampy1970]

So, how was it? A nice day if a little windy. I was sad not to ride but happy that I did do a ride on the bike for the first time in over a month. Back still hurts from the car crash but it's getting better.

 

[swampy1970]

Looks like, sadly, someone was on a mission and didn't stop on a blind turn just a few miles into the Davis Double. Unfortunately a semi truck pulling two trailers (probably a large agricultural truck loaded with tomatoes) was heading down the road he was turning onto and couldn't stop in time. His riding buddy did stop at the junction and witnessed the load semi truck take him out at almost 50 mph.

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sacramento/bicyclist-killed-in-early-morning-crash-during-davis-double-century/33060488

 

[Weatherby]

Running a stop sign 40 minutes before sunrise before the official start and probably no lights on the bike?. Did the truck cross the line. We assume the cyclist did something wrong. Senseless. I slowly roll thru stop signs and look both ways.....maybe time to rethink.

I did a 400k Brevet in 13:24 that day and a car pulled right out on me when I was doing 25 mph.....a young girl with cell phone in hand from the driveway. I did nothing wrong and narrowly avoided serious injury.

Time for reflection. So sad. Are the risks acceptable.

 

[An old Guy]

I slowly roll thru stop signs and look both ways

"roll thru" is not the same as stopping.

"a car pulled right out on me when I was doing 25 mph ... I did nothing wrong .... narrowly avoided serious injury"

There is some part of the vehicle code that requires you proceed at a reasonable speed. I think you were closer to doing something wrong than I would be comfortable doing. (Yes, I have been in situations like yours. I was both wrong and lucky.)

 

[swampy1970]

Running a stop sign 40 minutes before sunrise before the official start and probably no lights on the bike?. Did the truck cross the line. We assume the cyclist did something wrong. Senseless. I slowly roll thru stop signs and look both ways.....maybe time to rethink.

I did a 400k Brevet in 13:24 that day and a car pulled right out on me when I was doing 25 mph.....a young girl with cell phone in hand from the driveway. I did nothing wrong and narrowly avoided serious injury.

Time for reflection. So sad. Are the risks acceptable.

The cyclist essentially came up to a t-junction, albeit one that wasn't exactly a square T. The big rig was just driving down the road and the cyclist just rode out over the stop line and into the path of the truck. Neither saw each other because of the tall fences and trees that blocked the view. From what I gather the truck didn't really have time to slow down much and was just cruising down the arrow straight road close to the speed limit.

CHP do patrol the roads and check that all riders have lights. Those that are deficient get dealt with accordingly. However, lights or no lights, the tall trees and fences would have made seeing the cyclist approaching the junction impossible even with lights. Due to the fact that the road that the cyclist was on does have a small rise before the junction, I doubt that even any light would have been cast into the road in front of him that the truck driver could have seen.

 

[Weatherby]

Looking at the video on the scene and Google maps.......is there a lesson that we can learn?

It looks like the Truck was traveling SW on Sparling or at least that is the direction of the truck in the police interview.

The Cyclist was going W on Tremont in the dark where there was to be a 135 degree turn onto Sparling going NE. The "shoulder" looks to disappear at the corner and there are two metal posts on the corner where someone might have expected more of a shoulder. Blind 135 degree corner in the dark on what looks like bad pavement and/or disappearing shoulder. Did the cyclist hook the metal pole? Were they riding two abreast? Simply too fast to negotiate a 135 degree turn?

From what I thought reading other accounts, the truck was traveling in the same direction (NE on Sparling) but it looks like it was a head on collision.

I really do not like riding on California roads out in the "country". Narrow high speed roads with very little shoulder and drivers who often refuse to move into the other lane to give a rider some space.

I was planning to attempt a 22 hour 600K that has hundreds of country stop signs. I am going to stop and just add 45 minutes to my goal. Maybe we all need to rethink our trust in other riders who shout, "Clear Left, Clear Right".......I had one of these Saturday where it was NOT clear. Since I roll very slow into stop signs, I was able to stop. I am going to completely stop at stop signs on roads that I do not know. Period. So sad and tragic.

 

[Weatherby]

"roll thru" is not the same as stopping.

"a car pulled right out on me when I was doing 25 mph ... I did nothing wrong .... narrowly avoided serious injury"

There is some part of the vehicle code that requires you proceed at a reasonable speed. I think you were closer to doing something wrong than I would be comfortable doing. (Yes, I have been in situations like yours. I was both wrong and lucky.)

Of course roll thru is not the same as stopping. Slowing to 5 mph and looking both ways before going is clearly not stopping. I am not sure how you misunderstood.

I did nothing wrong on the separate point of a driver almost T boning me. I had slowed to 25 mph (slight down hill) in a 30 mph residential zone, so, I was more than obeying the speed limit. I had taken the lane for visibility because there were parked cars here and there. I wore a white jersey with reflectors in the middle of the day with a flashing light and at 6'3'', I doubt there could have been a more visible cyclist. The young girl dropped a young man off, waved and blew kisses with the cell phone in her hand as she did a left hook U turn right in front of us without looking...a turn that failed....she did a K turn. She had been parked on sort of a driveway and just went right across the road. I did not curse or flip the bird. She would not have understood.

I guess I think a lot about safety now. Maybe too much.

 

[swampy1970]

The lesson is look for traffic at junctions and resist the urge to take risks to save a little bit of time. Does it really matter if you have to wait even for several minutes to pass before it's safe to go?

The route took the riders west down Tremont and left to go SW on Sparling - not NE.

Heading down Tremont and left onto Sparling gives the rider a possible fast and easy turn but the issue is no visability north to see what's coming down Sparling. If you are going NE then it's not too much of an issue as there is great visablility to the south (not that this is an excuse to just blast through a junction) and you can see what will be in your lane - but if you're making a left to go SW then you're in the path of anything coming from the north and you don't find that out until you're past the junction. In typical California style, you can't see what's to the right if you stop on the stop line, you have to pull forward a little.

 

[LivingInThePast]

So, how was it? A nice day if a little windy. I was sad not to ride but happy that I did do a ride on the bike for the first time in over a month. Back still hurts from the car crash but it's getting better.

Well, it was a combined epic, farce, and tragedy (though not tragic on the scale this thread seems to have taken).

I was trundling along on a trajectory to finish in something between 12 and 12.5 hours (that's the epic part) when I left the tandem I'd glued onto to climb the last hill of any significance on the ride (the tandem was going pokey slow up the hills as tandems are wont to do). On the backside of that hill the tandem came racing up to me and when I threw my bike into a bigger gear to catch them my chain came off. I jumped off my bike, threw the chain back on and set off in hot pursuit of the tandem line that was already 200 yards ahead of me (that's the farcical part). I hammered as hard as I could thinking I'd catch them on the next small uphill but, alas, there were no more small hills. I hammered and hammered for mile after mile, almost catching them and then ultimately, losing them. Losing them would not have been so bad had I not spent all of my remaining reserves in that pursuit. By 18 miles from the finish I couldn't keep up with any pace line at all. I stopped just short of the Esparto rest stop and both my legs locked up in cramps and I had an asthma attack (did you know that "exercise-induced asthma" was a thing? - ha! Neither did I.). Anyway, long story short, a sag wagon pulled up and asked me if I needed a ride and I just bagged it at that point (The Tragedy).

So to partially answer my original post, a 167 lb man (I lost 3 lbs since this thread began) requires a higher than 275 FTP (I picked up 15 FTP since this thread began) in order to finish this particular double century in 10 hours. How much higher I'm not sure, but I've at least provided the readership one solid data point for their own reference. If the Davis Bike Club replaces the 4 miles of gravel with new pavement that would shave close to 12 minutes off the total time as well.

Other things I learned:

1) Just because you can ride a century in running tights without chamois or padding does not mean you can ride a double century without them.
2) Four tylenol are insufficient to suppress the pain of a neuroma in your foot.
3) Eleven hours is a long time to support one's upper body weight on one's arms when one's elbows don't fully straighten
4) There's always another tandem where that one came from
5) Yolo and Lake counties need to repair their crumbling roads

In retrospect, I'm happy knowing that I'm capable of shaving a couple of hours off my time from 1980, sad that I have no trophy to prove it, and thankful that my brain didn't succeed in killing me.

I'll be back next year, stronger and cannier. Hopefully the weather will be just as good as this year.

Good to hear you're back in the saddle. I'm sure it'll hasten your back's recovery.