What happend to my clutch?

Discussion in 'rec.sport.unicycling' started by cyberpunk, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. cyberpunk

    cyberpunk Guest

    Is anyone even working on a costing hub/clutch uni? I mean I can totally
    understand if they are being developed by someone, and they are hard to
    make, ect, ect. But I would personaly spend a great deal of money to
    beable to coast down into a half pipe, the possibilities that would open
    up for street, and downhill unicyclist, are emense! I'm personaly
    suprised geared uni's came before coasting uni's (with a clutch)

    Now I know about the coasting uni made by team SWAT I belive it was. But
    that is not what we need, we need to beable to ride backwards, forwards,
    then pull in a clutch and coast as we please. My personal idea is that
    we use a system much like that is in a bicycle, where you can pedal
    forwards but not back, but it also has a lock so you can pedal in both
    directions, the lock will be permenently "on" and as you please you can
    pull it loose with a clutch lever, this way you can still pedal forward
    to pick up speed, and then use the uni as a BC wheel, then once you've
    slowed enough you can catch your pedals back up with the hub, and if
    your not holding the clutch it will automaticly snap back into a locked
    position.

    This will also create three peices to a uni, that will replace the
    single peiced hub, you will have the new hollow hub, axle, and clutch
    mechenism, its a pretty simple system to figure out, but I think the
    mechenism should be on the side of the hub, and hold onto the axle via
    splines, so this way it can be easily replaced if its to break. I dunno
    hit me if you think i'm stupid, but yeah KH, Bedford, koxx, Qu-Ax, I
    don't care who someone please just atleast make a prototype. I'd be
    happy just seeing someone use one.


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  2. Hmm, interesting project. I might make one, being as I am getting a
    9x36" milling machine in 2 days, and my boss just gave me a large amount
    of 1/2" and 3/8" 7000 series aluminum plate, along with plenty of
    stainless tube and bar stock. My only issue is I think the amount of
    work required to make an effective clutch hub. The only way to really
    make on is to use friction clutch plates, since it's unridable to
    suddenly be in gear, and friction clutches are easier to make and more
    effective to run (less precision required during machining).

    As for the design, i was thinking a double set of clutch plates on each
    side of the flanges.

    As for the actual manufacture, i think it's important to point out that
    making one of these hubs is a big endeavor, not just something you throw
    together in an afternoon. If you really want to see one made, make it
    out of wood and then bring it to a friend with a cnc mill and ask him or
    her to make it.

    Of course unicycles evolved in the manner they did, though! Imagine
    learning to initially ride on a coasting unicycle! Unicycles evolved
    from penny farthings, so unicycling has followed the logical
    progression.


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    "The genesis of genocide is like a Pagan religion; carefully hidden,
    woven into the holidays of a Christian."-Immortal Technique

    * I need a profile hub, any condition, as long as the splines work! (PM
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  3. Hmm, interesting project. I might make one, being as I am getting a
    9x36" milling machine in 2 days, and my boss just gave me a large amount
    of 1/2" and 3/8" 7000 series aluminum plate, along with plenty of
    stainless tube and bar stock. My only issue is I think the amount of
    work required to make an effective clutch hub. The only way to really
    make on is to use friction clutch plates, since it's unridable to
    suddenly be in gear, and friction clutches are easier to make and more
    effective to run (less precision required during machining).

    As for the design, i was thinking a double set of clutch plates on each
    side of the flanges.

    As for the actual manufacture, i think it's important to point out that
    making one of these hubs is a big endeavor, not just something you throw
    together in an afternoon. If you really want to see one made, make it
    out of wood and then bring it to a friend with a cnc mill and ask him or
    her to make it.

    Of course unicycles evolved in the manner they did, though! Imagine
    learning to initially ride on a coasting unicycle! Unicycles evolved
    from penny farthings, so unicycling has followed the logical
    progression.


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    gerblefranklin - Trials Unicyclist

    http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Trials-Muni

    Nick's main man.

    "The genesis of genocide is like a Pagan religion; carefully hidden,
    woven into the holidays of a Christian."-Immortal Technique

    * I need a profile hub, any condition, as long as the splines work! (PM
    me) *
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  4. cyberpunk

    cyberpunk Guest

    Friction clutches are good, but they have inharent problems clutch
    plates wear out. Although they can be replaced, and thats not to say
    that any other clutch system wouldn't wear out over time with strenious
    use. But the second problem would be slipping, which is something to
    contened with.

    I don't know of other ideas out there, and someone elses idea could put
    mine to shame, but more or less my uni when the clutch is pulled in
    would ride like the one team SWAT made, or in other words it would ride
    just like a bicycle forward is hunky dory, but backward is a no go. And
    the lock, wouldn't reangage until the axle (which is spining freely)
    catches up to the hub. The alternative would be to get rid of the
    automatic catch mechanism, (less parts) and just trust someone isn't
    stupid enough to put something in gear while coasting, and would wait
    until the axle has caught up, (you would beable to feel it just like on
    a bike when it does.)

    But yeah.


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  5. Naomi

    Naomi Guest

    "cyberpunk" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Friction clutches are good, but they have inharent problems clutch
    > plates wear out. Although they can be replaced, and thats not to say
    > that any other clutch system wouldn't wear out over time with strenious
    > use. But the second problem would be slipping, which is something to
    > contened with.
    >


    A magnetic clutch might be feasible. This would require power input
    though, but would be a neat option if it could be made to work.

    Nao
     
  6. TrialsUni

    TrialsUni Guest

    I never rode with one when I did ride two wheels, but what you're
    talking about kind of sounds like a BMX freecoaster hub. Only the main
    problem with that is it's primarily for flatland (which I rode
    street--I've seen quite a few riders do so with one, though). So when
    the bike starts rolling backwards for some tricks, you just move the
    cranks backwards until the clutch enables you to coast in reverse
    (without the pedals/cranks moving). I think there is a little pedal
    slack in a hub like this, and I'd imagine so because of the clutch
    engaging/disengaging.

    But what you need is a direct-drive hub that works like that going
    forwards...

    This probably doesn't help, but I didn't know if you've heard of a
    freecoaster before.


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  7. cyberpunk wrote:
    > *Friction clutches are good, but they have inharent problems clutch
    > plates wear out. Although they can be replaced, and thats not to say
    > that any other clutch system wouldn't wear out over time with
    > strenious use. But the second problem would be slipping, which is
    > something to contened with.
    >
    > I don't know of other ideas out there, and someone elses idea could
    > put mine to shame, but more or less my uni when the clutch is pulled
    > in would ride like the one team SWAT made, or in other words it would
    > ride just like a bicycle forward is hunky dory, but backward is a no
    > go. And the lock, wouldn't reangage until the axle (which is spining
    > freely) catches up to the hub. The alternative would be to get rid of
    > the automatic catch mechanism, (less parts) and just trust someone
    > isn't stupid enough to put something in gear while coasting, and would
    > wait until the axle has caught up, (you would beable to feel it just
    > like on a bike when it does.)
    >
    > But yeah. *



    OH NO! A part of a unicycle *wearing out*?! Whatever will I do?! Such a
    phenomenon has never been witnessed before, except with cranks, hubs,
    tires, pedals, inertubes, seatcovers, handles, seatbases, spokes, and
    rims. Honestly, so what if something wears out? Tires need replacing
    every 6 months or so (less for some). As long as you design in the
    ability to replace the clutch plates, there shouldn't be a problem.

    Not to mention, the 14x40" lathe at my shop has been running for 47
    years without needing its clutch plates replaced. As a matter of fact,
    they've only needed adjustment every 15 years or so. A metalworking
    lathe is much harder on clutch plates than a unicycle is. You can just
    adjust the plates for wear when they get loose.

    As for slippage, simply make it so the plates can handle far more torque
    than the cranks. that way the plates only slip when the cranks bend,
    actually acting as a safety.

    Pedalling in a freewheel is very difficult on a uni, and if you consider
    someone stupid for not engaging the gear at the right time, maybe you
    should adjust your standards.


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    Nick's main man.

    "The genesis of genocide is like a Pagan religion; carefully hidden,
    woven into the holidays of a Christian."-Immortal Technique

    * I need a profile hub, any condition, as long as the splines work! (PM
    me) *
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  8. shapr

    shapr Guest

    A quick google search turns up quite a bit of information on magnetic
    clutches. 'Rimtec' (http://tinyurl.com/8fj3j) has nice explanations of
    their various magnetic clutches.
    The Rimtec advertising claims that magnetic clutches are maintenance
    free and can be hermetically sealed. It seems to me that a clutch that
    disengages the cranks from the hub would be nice if it also engages the
    cranks to the frame at the same time. With this feature, a magnetic
    clutch could also double as a magnetic brake, though I don't know what
    long term effect that would have on the magnets themselves. If the
    tension clutches at Rimtec are any indication, magnetic clutches may be
    able to absorb braking forces for a very long time without problems.

    Thank you Naomi for this excellent suggestion! I had never read up on
    magnetic clutches before, maybe I can acquire one for testing purposes.


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  9. Naomi

    Naomi Guest

    "shapr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > A quick google search turns up quite a bit of information on magnetic
    > clutches. 'Rimtec' (http://tinyurl.com/8fj3j) has nice explanations of
    > their various magnetic clutches.
    > The Rimtec advertising claims that magnetic clutches are maintenance
    > free and can be hermetically sealed. It seems to me that a clutch that
    > disengages the cranks from the hub would be nice if it also engages the
    > cranks to the frame at the same time. With this feature, a magnetic
    > clutch could also double as a magnetic brake, though I don't know what
    > long term effect that would have on the magnets themselves. If the
    > tension clutches at Rimtec are any indication, magnetic clutches may be
    > able to absorb braking forces for a very long time without problems.
    >
    > Thank you Naomi for this excellent suggestion! I had never read up on
    > magnetic clutches before, maybe I can acquire one for testing purposes.
    >


    Don't know anything about Rimtec, and don't even remember the brand name
    of the mag clutches I was involved with, but they used magnetic dust
    rather than specific "bar " magnets . We used them as both clutch and
    brake, although in our application the braking effect was quite evil, in
    that it had to stop everything within a few milliseconds. ( we had a stop
    go cycle of 20 milliseconds ). These clutch/brake units were hammered day
    and night for years, and few ever exhibited problems.
    They were used to provide the motion for the paper on continuous stationery
    computer printers, as used mainly on big mainframe system.
    These could print up to 2000 or so sheets an hour and the clutch/brake had
    to stop the paper whilst it printed each of the 60 or so lines per page.
    Should at least give you an idea of reliability. Suitability: you will
    have to decide yourself.


    Nao .
     
  10. cyberpunk

    cyberpunk Guest

    I actually never saw the multi-pole magnetic clutches, but I have seen
    the dust clutches, although I will admit I wasn't aware of the dust
    clutches insane reliability. But regardless of that, I don't think to
    many people want to carry a powersource around when they unicycle, just
    seems like a little to much. But personaly I think magnetic clutches are
    a great idea within a uni, although theyd have to be permanent
    magnetics, insted of electromagnets. I havn't had a chance to check out
    the magnets at the given site in great detail but they "Seem" to be
    permenent magnets, the only problem I see though, is that a permenent
    magnetic clutch might need a substantial amount of room to disengage,
    and therefore take up more space on your axle, making your feet further
    apart, i'd like to see the whole clutch system within a two inch
    enclosed cylinder, and I think it can be done.


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  11. cyberpunk wrote:
    > *But regardless of that, I don't think to many people want to carry a
    > powersource around when they unicycle, just seems like a little to
    > much. *



    Well clearly most people don't want to carry a unicycle with a clutch,
    either. Otherwise they'd already exist. Honestly, just fit a battery in
    the spokes, it wouldn't be hard.


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    "The genesis of genocide is like a Pagan religion; carefully hidden,
    woven into the holidays of a Christian."-Immortal Technique

    * I need a profile hub, any condition, as long as the splines work! (PM
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