What happened to KETO low carb products?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by [email protected], Nov 29, 2005.

  1. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "FOB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I think the media just pushes what they get from the medical establishment.
    > They listen to dieticians who are almost all still low fat pushers. They
    > take the PCRM seriously and do lots of promos for them. The media is all
    > too happy to have a nice ready made story plop into their lazy laps.
    > Makes
    > it easy for those pushing a point of view to get air time. The PCRM gives
    > awards to schools serving their version of healthy lunches. One of our
    > stations has a weekly segment on their news with Florine Mark of Weight
    > Watchers--she's a local minor celeb.


    Yeah, I agree, they often do this. And then sometimes they like to latch
    onto "contrarian" stories, like they did with Atkins. "Look, this guy lost 2
    gazillion pounds eating bacon and cheeseburgers!" I guess it's safe to
    conclude that the primary focus is *not* really educating the consumer, but
    more like (1) filling columns without too much effort or expense, and (2)
    reporting improbable stuff that will catch viewer/reader interest.

    > Actually, I think the recent low carb frenzy hurt the low carb cause.
    > Because so many latched onto it without actually understanding it and
    > doing
    > it correctly, a lot of people got a bad impression of low carb in general.
    > I think the medical community will gradually come to view low carb as a
    > positive thing because the research that supports it is showing up, but it
    > will take a long time, several years at least.


    That happened the first time around, too. Too many people who just ate the
    steak and eggs and a handful of iceburg lettuce for months on end, and then
    didn't feel well so went off and regained and decided Atkins "doesn't work."
    Although there was a lot more fear and loathing among the rest of the
    medical community in the '70's. I agree that the improved medical
    understanding may help make at least reduced carb diets acceptable, maybe
    even popular, in the not-too-distant future.

    The current popularity of the South Beach diet may be an indicator of what
    is to come. Reduced carbs, and much less of the high-glycemic stuff. Of
    course this isn't strong enough medicine for many people, but it's better
    than the very-low-fat-high-carb approach, at least.

    HG
     


  2. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "FOB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I think the media just pushes what they get from the medical establishment.
    > They listen to dieticians who are almost all still low fat pushers. They
    > take the PCRM seriously and do lots of promos for them. The media is all
    > too happy to have a nice ready made story plop into their lazy laps.
    > Makes
    > it easy for those pushing a point of view to get air time. The PCRM gives
    > awards to schools serving their version of healthy lunches. One of our
    > stations has a weekly segment on their news with Florine Mark of Weight
    > Watchers--she's a local minor celeb.


    Yeah, I agree, they often do this. And then sometimes they like to latch
    onto "contrarian" stories, like they did with Atkins. "Look, this guy lost 2
    gazillion pounds eating bacon and cheeseburgers!" I guess it's safe to
    conclude that the primary focus is *not* really educating the consumer, but
    more like (1) filling columns without too much effort or expense, and (2)
    reporting improbable stuff that will catch viewer/reader interest.

    > Actually, I think the recent low carb frenzy hurt the low carb cause.
    > Because so many latched onto it without actually understanding it and
    > doing
    > it correctly, a lot of people got a bad impression of low carb in general.
    > I think the medical community will gradually come to view low carb as a
    > positive thing because the research that supports it is showing up, but it
    > will take a long time, several years at least.


    That happened the first time around, too. Too many people who just ate the
    steak and eggs and a handful of iceburg lettuce for months on end, and then
    didn't feel well so went off and regained and decided Atkins "doesn't work."
    Although there was a lot more fear and loathing among the rest of the
    medical community in the '70's. I agree that the improved medical
    understanding may help make at least reduced carb diets acceptable, maybe
    even popular, in the not-too-distant future.

    The current popularity of the South Beach diet may be an indicator of what
    is to come. Reduced carbs, and much less of the high-glycemic stuff. Of
    course this isn't strong enough medicine for many people, but it's better
    than the very-low-fat-high-carb approach, at least.

    HG
     
  3. Sherry

    Sherry Guest

    I've been surprised to hear of a few doctors who lately have been telling
    people to not eat "white food" - white breads, potatoes, rice, pasta. Hey,
    my doctor just told me to "eat more fruits and vegetables" (to lose 170
    lbs????) so it's a step in the right direction at least :).

    Sherry
    364/297/195 (4/3/05)
    http://lowcarb.owly.net

    "Hannah Gruen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > That happened the first time around, too. Too many people who just ate the
    > steak and eggs and a handful of iceburg lettuce for months on end, and

    then
    > didn't feel well so went off and regained and decided Atkins "doesn't

    work."
    > Although there was a lot more fear and loathing among the rest of the
    > medical community in the '70's. I agree that the improved medical
    > understanding may help make at least reduced carb diets acceptable, maybe
    > even popular, in the not-too-distant future.
    >
    > The current popularity of the South Beach diet may be an indicator of what
    > is to come. Reduced carbs, and much less of the high-glycemic stuff. Of
    > course this isn't strong enough medicine for many people, but it's better
    > than the very-low-fat-high-carb approach, at least.
     
  4. Alice Faber

    Alice Faber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Sherry" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I've been surprised to hear of a few doctors who lately have been telling
    > people to not eat "white food" - white breads, potatoes, rice, pasta. Hey,
    > my doctor just told me to "eat more fruits and vegetables" (to lose 170
    > lbs????) so it's a step in the right direction at least :).


    Not just lately. I was diagnosed in either 1997 or 1998 (the years start
    to blend together). I was told "brown everything, no sugar, fruit juice
    is just as bad as soda". My doctor told me to read Sugar Busters. I
    quickly decided that the brown versions of starches weren't much use;
    whole wheat pasta was too expensive and tasteless, so I just dropped
    pasta. Sweet potatoes don't do much for me. And so forth.

    --
    AF
    "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
    --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
     
  5. Sherry

    Sherry Guest

    I guess I only heard of them lately then. And I already know I need a new
    doctor :).

    Sherry
    364/297/195 (4/3/05)
    http://lowcarb.owly.net

    "Alice Faber" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:afaber-> Not just
    lately. I was diagnosed in either 1997 or 1998 (the years start
    > to blend together). I was told "brown everything, no sugar, fruit juice
    > is just as bad as soda". My doctor told me to read Sugar Busters. I
    > quickly decided that the brown versions of starches weren't much use;
    > whole wheat pasta was too expensive and tasteless, so I just dropped
    > pasta. Sweet potatoes don't do much for me. And so forth.
     
  6. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "Sherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've been surprised to hear of a few doctors who lately have been telling
    > people to not eat "white food" - white breads, potatoes, rice, pasta.
    > Hey,
    > my doctor just told me to "eat more fruits and vegetables" (to lose 170
    > lbs????) so it's a step in the right direction at least :).


    Yes, the "don't eat anything white" strategy has been around a long time,
    but not quite mainstream. It's kinda a watered down version of a glycemic
    diet I guess. As the "eat more fruits and vegetables" approach. The problem
    with these is that for truly insulin resistant folks, they don't usually
    work. They don't lower insulin enough to allow the person to override the
    siren call of hyperinsulimia ("Eat, eat, more, eat," so the person ends up
    perhaps a little healthier, but still overeating and obese. And diabetic, in
    some cases.

    That's one reason South Beach has been more effective, the "induction" gives
    people a chance to see what their appetite is like without all the extra
    insulin. A real eye-opener for many, as it is for those who do Atkins or
    other lc plan. Then a lot of the successful SB'ers, from what I've seen, cut
    way back on starches in order to keep that appetite suppression thing going.
    That's the factor I think many doctors don't even begin to understand.

    HG
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Hannah Gruen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Then a lot of the successful SB'ers, from what I've seen, cut
    > way back on starches in order to keep that appetite suppression thing going.
    > That's the factor I think many doctors don't even begin to understand.
    >
    > HG


    This is so very scary!
    It's basic human physiology. I'm only a lab tech and _I_ understand how
    it works!

    That 12 year old kid I helped out with his compulsive eating was ever so
    amazed and grateful that he suddenly lost his desire to stuff his face
    with soda, cookies and bread all day long. ;-)

    He lost 8 lbs. in the 3 weeks I was working with him.
    He then went on to continue, and started playing football.
    He finally got his mom to join him in his diet. He stuck to his guns
    and ignored her advice to "wait awhile and not worry about the diet
    because you are so young you might grow out of being obese" bullshit.

    <sigh>

    She never "grew out of it".

    I explained how it worked to him, and he understood it and has never had
    any physiology classes. If he can, why can't the doctors???

    WTF is the matter with them???
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  8. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > That 12 year old kid I helped out with his compulsive eating was ever so
    > amazed and grateful that he suddenly lost his desire to stuff his face
    > with soda, cookies and bread all day long. ;-)
    >
    > He lost 8 lbs. in the 3 weeks I was working with him.
    > He then went on to continue, and started playing football.
    > He finally got his mom to join him in his diet. He stuck to his guns
    > and ignored her advice to "wait awhile and not worry about the diet
    > because you are so young you might grow out of being obese" bullshit.
    >
    > <sigh>
    >
    > She never "grew out of it".
    >
    > I explained how it worked to him, and he understood it and has never had
    > any physiology classes. If he can, why can't the doctors???
    >
    > WTF is the matter with them???


    Om, I'm really glad to hear things worked out so well with your 12-year-old
    friend! I remember you posting about that last summer, but never caught how
    it worked out. Excellent! Bless you for taking on that project!

    As to the doctors, I think it's both good and bad. Good because in general
    they seem pretty cautious about recommending something that is drastically
    different in terms of diet without having some good, long term studies and
    general acceptance among the medical community. We probably do not want
    doctors falling for every new, inadequately-supported, harebrained idea that
    comes along (although many seem to do so with respect to pharmaceuticals).
    And unfortunately, while there is a fair amount of data accumulating about
    the efficacy and safety of low-carb diets, it's still not really long term,
    nor is there *lots* of data, and nor is there yet general acceptance.

    But it's still bad because experience shows so many of us who are
    significantly insulin resistant that reducing CHO significantly is the
    *only* drug-free way to reduce appetite enough to effectively and
    consistently limit calories enough to allow weight loss. And because there
    is no money in it, few studies are likely. It's actually amazing that as
    many doctors are as positive about lc as there are out there. And that is
    probably mainly because many of them, or their friends, have discovered
    through necessity and experience how well lc works and what it's health
    impacts are.

    HG
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Hannah Gruen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > > That 12 year old kid I helped out with his compulsive eating was ever so
    > > amazed and grateful that he suddenly lost his desire to stuff his face
    > > with soda, cookies and bread all day long. ;-)
    > >
    > > He lost 8 lbs. in the 3 weeks I was working with him.
    > > He then went on to continue, and started playing football.
    > > He finally got his mom to join him in his diet. He stuck to his guns
    > > and ignored her advice to "wait awhile and not worry about the diet
    > > because you are so young you might grow out of being obese" bullshit.
    > >
    > > <sigh>
    > >
    > > She never "grew out of it".
    > >
    > > I explained how it worked to him, and he understood it and has never had
    > > any physiology classes. If he can, why can't the doctors???
    > >
    > > WTF is the matter with them???

    >
    > Om, I'm really glad to hear things worked out so well with your 12-year-old
    > friend! I remember you posting about that last summer, but never caught how
    > it worked out. Excellent! Bless you for taking on that project!


    He's a great kid!
    And he was so tired of being fat.
    Part of that was peer pressure, part of it was smarts!

    >
    > As to the doctors, I think it's both good and bad. Good because in general
    > they seem pretty cautious about recommending something that is drastically
    > different in terms of diet without having some good, long term studies and
    > general acceptance among the medical community.


    But that's just it!
    There are, at this point, plenty of studies that support low carbing,
    even for obese children!

    > We probably do not want
    > doctors falling for every new, inadequately-supported, harebrained idea that
    > comes along (although many seem to do so with respect to pharmaceuticals).


    <snork> No shit.
    Much to the detriment of how many millions?

    > And unfortunately, while there is a fair amount of data accumulating about
    > the efficacy and safety of low-carb diets, it's still not really long term,
    > nor is there *lots* of data, and nor is there yet general acceptance.


    But it does lower blood glucose levels and prevents spikes that cause
    uncontrolled appetite! That's going to work whether you are 14 or 40!

    >
    > But it's still bad because experience shows so many of us who are
    > significantly insulin resistant that reducing CHO significantly is the
    > *only* drug-free way to reduce appetite enough to effectively and
    > consistently limit calories enough to allow weight loss. And because there
    > is no money in it, few studies are likely. It's actually amazing that as
    > many doctors are as positive about lc as there are out there. And that is
    > probably mainly because many of them, or their friends, have discovered
    > through necessity and experience how well lc works and what it's health
    > impacts are.
    >
    > HG


    Obesity is at epidemic levels.
    I saw a flyer down in the ER last night.
    There is a company now that specializes in Bariatric medical equipment.

    Wheelchairs, walkers and beds with an 800 lb. capacity.

    No market, no product.

    Right?

    <sigh>

    >
    >

    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  10. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,


    > He's a great kid!
    > And he was so tired of being fat.
    > Part of that was peer pressure, part of it was smarts!


    I'd guess he's is a bit of an independent thinker, too, as well as being
    pretty bright. And having a good coach. :cool:

    > But that's just it!
    > There are, at this point, plenty of studies that support low carbing,
    > even for obese children!


    You and I think it's pretty obvious, but I kinda get the feeling many
    doctors aren't particularly good at evaluating competing studies. They seem
    to be more like engineers than scientists (no offense meant to actual
    engineers) in that they are more likely to take the stated results of a
    study at face value, rather than looking at it critically. And there is a
    boatload of "evidence" tand scholarly opinion pieces demonstrating that low
    fat, "balanced" diets are good for you, and that diets high in fat,
    especially *saturated* fat, are bad. As opposed to relatively a thimbleful
    of studies that support the healthfulness and effectiveness of lc.

    >> And unfortunately, while there is a fair amount of data accumulating
    >> about the efficacy and safety of low-carb diets, it's still not
    >> really long term, nor is there *lots* of data, and nor is there yet
    >> general acceptance.

    >
    > But it does lower blood glucose levels and prevents spikes that cause
    > uncontrolled appetite! That's going to work whether you are 14 or 40!


    Yep. I think many realize lc is effective, but are wary of prescribing
    because they fear that there may be adverse long-term effects. Some of those
    same doctors will use Atkins to lose weight themselves, but not prescribe it
    for their patients.

    > Obesity is at epidemic levels.
    > I saw a flyer down in the ER last night.
    > There is a company now that specializes in Bariatric medical
    > equipment.
    >
    > Wheelchairs, walkers and beds with an 800 lb. capacity.
    >
    > No market, no product.
    >
    > Right?


    Yes, unfortunately. And I don't see it getting better any time soon.

    HG
     
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