What is rest?



"Bear G" <[email protected]> wrote

> I know I need to go into a rest cycle, but what is rest? One of
> our coaches suggested skipping running entirely for about a month,
> but I knew that if I did that I wouldn't resume running until next
> spring.


After a race, I'll take it easy (60-70% of normal mileage) at an easy pace
for 10-12 days or so. I'll even walk some sections. Then I'm rested and
motivated to resume my normal mix of training. Very little fitness is lost
in the interlude.

> Or is this a moot point as winter approaches? I know you guys run
> through 4' snow drifts wearing nothing but shorts, sports bras
> (Dot) and smiles, but I'm a wimp and expect storms to play havoc
> on my schedule.


Here in LA, there are no excuses...it's usually fair.

> The alternative is to plan to do all of my runs on the street with
> trail runs as a pleasant surprise.


Get with Dot re snowshoes...I run on snow in the Mtns above LA when I can.
Waffle soles seem to work fine most of the time.

> I was planning to shift to
> street running anyway (in preparation for a street marathon) but


I ran my best (street) races when I was 80% trail / 20% street. You just
need a little bit of street to keep your foot in it.

-- Dan
----------
Questioner: What should we do with Baldwin's body?
Churchill: Embalm, cremate, and bury. Take no chances.
 
Dan Stumpus wrote:
> "Bear G" <[email protected]> wrote
>>I was planning to shift to
>>street running anyway (in preparation for a street marathon) but

>
> I ran my best (street) races when I was 80% trail / 20% street. You just
> need a little bit of street to keep your foot in it.


That's good to know. A few months ago we ran 11 miles entirely on
streets because we expected our usual trail to be flooded. For
hours afterwards my legs felt... funny... because of the unusual
impact.

I'm currently around 30% street. Last week (still a little light)
I ran 21 miles. 4 were on asphalt, 2 on concrete.
 
"Bear G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>I know I need to go into a rest cycle, but what is rest? One of our
>coaches suggested skipping running entirely for about a month, but I knew
>that if I did that I wouldn't resume running until next spring.
>
> Or is this a moot point as winter approaches? I know you guys run through
> 4' snow drifts wearing nothing but shorts, sports bras (Dot) and smiles,
> but I'm a wimp and expect storms to play havoc on my schedule.
>
> The alternative is to plan to do all of my runs on the street with trail
> runs as a pleasant surprise. I was planning to shift to street running
> anyway (in preparation for a street marathon) but was hoping to shift
> about 10%/month from trail to asphalt. That is, I'm currently about 30/70
> (asphalt/trail) and would go to 40/60, 50/50, etc. in November and
> December.



Well, there's two types of rest (within the cycle, and as a
cycle itself) but I believe they are intertwined.

Everyone is different. Some people do very well even at
the elite level with one or two rest days per week. Others
seem the thrive on mileage. Bill Rodgers was famous for
running a pretty hard 20 miler five days before marathons.
I myself have had conflicting results. My 5k PR was set
the day after my 5 mile PR, but I've had great results in a
race after taking almost an entire week off... even a half
marathon.

In terms of having an entire rest cycle in itself: I believe this
to be a good thing. I took several months off last year for
the first time since I started running in 2000, and felt stronger
coming back. The cycle of nagging injuries went away and
never came back.


Upon starting up again after a few months, it only took a
week at most to be able to more or less do an easy run at
my prior level and enjoy it as such. However, the fast stuff
was gone. I was barely able to run 5k at my half marathon
pace (as a way-too-hard tempo) at first. I eventually got
some speed back (about 3 weeks to 95%), but it took
another 4 months to get that last 5% back. This may or
may not be that important to you.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton ON)
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
www.allfalldown.org
 
Bear G wrote:
> Lyndon wrote:
>
>> http://rockymountainsports.com/story.cfm?story_id=6486&departmentID=4&publ
>>
>> icationID=21

>
>
> Thanks. I noticed that towards the bottom he wrote:
>
> (begin quote)
>
> Ability aside, Hudson believes all athletes will benefit from some type
> of recovery period, whether they’re putting in the mileage and intensity
> to build a competitive season, or setting more modest goals, like
> fitness and weight loss or simply finishing the Bolder Boulder.
>
> For fitness runners, Hudson says, “A few days off on a weekly basis can
> be adequate, but you really can run all year,” while the competitive
> high school and college runner, who essentially has two seasons
> (cross-country in the fall and track in the summer) would be better off
> with two 2-week breaks per year, one following each competitive season.
>
> (end quote)
>
> I've been taking three days off each week and cut way back on intensity
> and duration for a few weeks after the marathon, so maybe that's
> enough. I'll also keep my eyes open for an opportunity to take some
> serious downtime in the next few months.


Agreed. I think the difference between elites and recreational running
schedules is something that gets overlooked too often.


>
> But right now I feel it's important to continue running as the weather
> cools. If I take a few weeks off now it will always feel "too cold" to
> run in the morning. But I can handle the temps dropping 5F/week if I'm
> out there several times every week.


I think that's the approach to take. Good luck.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
 
Bear G wrote:
> Dot wrote:
>
>> IIRC, you're in Colorado which has mostly dry snow, I think. You
>> shouldn't get the ice like we get.

>
>
> The Denver-Boulder metro area has brown winters.


That's scary. I thought they were far enough apart that they were still
distinctly separate. Maybe the Fort is part of Denver now also since I
haven't been there for 24 yrs except for a meeting. I also didn't
realize that Boulder was only 5300 ft. I must be thinking of another
place, maybe Nederland, around 7000 ft, iirc.

>
> I've been thinking about what really concerns me and I believe it's the
> tendency of the weather to run on a seven day cycle. If we have bad
> weather on Friday afternoon (which will make Saturday and to a lesser
> extend Sunday runs a mess) we'll probably have bad weather on Friday
> afternoons for a month.


The personality of our winters tends to get set in Oct and Nov, although
it may change in Jan when we're most likely to get freezing rain, and
why that's frequently the time I used the fitness center, if at all.

>
>> Snowshoe running should allow you to run on trails most of the winter.

>
>
> I actually considered that last year but the pads required to float my
> weight were impractical. Things should be better this year, but I'll
> still need fairly large pads.


Be sure you look at running snowshoes, and not regular ones. Also, don't
expect them to float you like regular snowshoes - they don't have the
surface area, but they are lighter weight. Most running ss work best in
a few inches of fresh snow on top a base. Soft enough that you can
stride downhill as well as kick up a rooster tail (some people get their
kicks from stopwatches, I get mine from rooster tails when the
conditions are right), but not so hard that the ss splat when they hit
hardpack. If we get a couple feet of really fresh, dry snow, I may sink
almost to my knees and just walk. If the snow is hard-packed I prefer
running with yaktrakz rather than ss - they provide grip without thump
of ss. I've heard there's running ss with webbing like the older ss and
are much quieter than the platforms used now, but I've never actually
seen them.

Also you can hike or run an area multiple times to pack the snow, so
each pass gets to be a little faster - changing from strength to aerobic
conditioning. Depending on conditions, you may be able to pack it hard
enough to run sans ss. This might not work for you with rapid melting.

Here's one source of information
http://www.snowshoemag.com/
I can post some others if interested.


>
> On the other hand the close-in trails are so heavily used I could
> probably count on staying on packed snow so I could use smaller pads.
> I've certainly gone out with regular hiking boots (granted size 13
> boots) in the spring.


You might be able to run these trails without ss - maybe use yaktrax for
grip - esp. if you stay on north-facing slopes where you'll have firmer
snow.


>
> I'm already trying to line up a personal trainer for strength training
> so I guess I could plan to maintain my base over the winter, but going
> long when the opportunity presents itself.


That sounds like a plan!

>
> On the other hand I recently learned that I can get a day pass to a
> private health club about one mile away (vs. 20 miles for Bally's) for
> $12/day, and they said that there's rarely a problem getting on the
> cardio machines. That's not unreasonable, esp. if I can piggyback on a
> PT session (which includes a day pass).


Also sounds like a good plan.

Good luck. You'll find you can make it work if you want it badly enough.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
 
Dot wrote:
> Bear G wrote:
>> The Denver-Boulder metro area has brown winters.

>
> That's scary. I thought they were far enough apart that they were still
> distinctly separate.


We still have a green belt but there's almost solid development
from the other side of the Davidson Mesa to Denver. (Then there's
Arvada's grand plans to annex everything up 93 to the Boulder
County border.) Longmont is a fair sized city - I wouldn't be
surprised if it was larger than Boulder in a few years since we've
reached build-out. Denver exburbs extend up I-25 to the Loveland
exits.

> I also didn't
> realize that Boulder was only 5300 ft. I must be thinking of another
> place, maybe Nederland, around 7000 ft, iirc.


The mountain parks also fool a lot of people. My cheap GPS unit
bounces around a bit but I think my second floor floor is right at
5280'. But I live adjacent to a creek bed so I'm a little lower
than average.

I still can't think about that without remembering the time I
visited Olympic NP. A long drive up in the fog, heavy snow on the
ground (on June 22) and a spectacular mountain view below us, then
I notice the elevation sign that said I was still a few hundred
feet below my townhouse. I couldn't stop laughing for a long time.

> The personality of our winters tends to get set in Oct and Nov, although
> it may change in Jan when we're most likely to get freezing rain, and
> why that's frequently the time I used the fitness center, if at all.


I'm sure you remember how we can be subzero for a week, then a few
weeks later it's shorts (no shirt) weather as we hit 60.

> Be sure you look at running snowshoes, and not regular ones.


Okay. I knew there were special running snowshoes but never
noticed them in the stores I visited. These were speciality
stores, but they were probably targeting hikers instead of runners.

> Also you can hike or run an area multiple times to pack the snow, so
> each pass gets to be a little faster - changing from strength to aerobic
> conditioning. Depending on conditions, you may be able to pack it hard
> enough to run sans ss. This might not work for you with rapid melting.


There's not the same cycle over 7000', but I could try that after
a heavy snowfall here. The only downside is packed snow tends to
become an icy patch for a few days after everything else has
melted. That would be a very annoying thing to do in a park. :)
 
Bear G wrote:
>
>
> I'm sure you remember how we can be subzero for a week, then a few weeks
> later it's shorts (no shirt) weather as we hit 60.


I don't remember Fort Collins ever getting below +10. But temperatures
were usually above 40F within a few days.

I also meant to mention that I used to run around the practice athletic
fields at CSU (my office was across street) and you may have the same
options in Boulder.

>
>> Be sure you look at running snowshoes, and not regular ones.

>
>
> Okay. I knew there were special running snowshoes but never noticed
> them in the stores I visited. These were speciality stores, but they
> were probably targeting hikers instead of runners.
>


For examples, I have the Elites
http://www.northernlites.com/index.html
(note weight: 35 oz/pair. These are not your father's oldsmobile ;)

Redfeathers are also good (sponsor our ss club organizer)
http://www.redfeather.com/
(sport racing are the ones I think I've seen but used to be red color)

And I've heard good things about all the following
http://www.atlassnowshoe.com/products/dt.asp
http://www.atlassnowshoe.com/products/dtsl.asp

http://www.crescentmoonsnowshoes.com/
http://www.crescentmoonsnowshoes.com/gold.html

http://www.dionsnowshoes.com/
flexibility is supposed to be nice

These are the major racing brands that I can think of off the top of my
head, but I'm sure there's more.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog