What is the law? Do pedestrians (runners) have the right of way.



L

Len A.

Guest
Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
road".

We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
them.

Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".

Any thoughts out there?

Len
 
>Any thoughts out there?

Next time I'll run your (_!_) over.
 
>Any thoughts out there?
>
>Len

Any thoughts, yeah. A lot of drivers are assholes. Also never try to press
the point, you're just showing your stupidity. I don't care if you're tough as
nails you're no match for 1 1/2 tons of steel moving at 30 m.p.h. or more.
Being right doesn't mean a helluva a lot if you're dead. Use your head, either
that or carry a 357 magnum.
 
>Also never try to press
>the point, you're just showing your stupidity.

He's good at it.

>I don't care if you're tough as
>nails you're no match for 1 1/2 tons of steel moving at 30 m.p.h. or more.

I am, that's about even odds.
 
"Bethowmuch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any thoughts, yeah. A lot of drivers are assholes. Also never try to
> press
> the point, you're just showing your stupidity. I don't care if you're
> tough as
> nails you're no match for 1 1/2 tons of steel moving at 30 m.p.h. or more.
> Being right doesn't mean a helluva a lot if you're dead. Use your head,
> either
> that or carry a 357 magnum.
>

Alot are a$$holes, but most are very stupid as well when a runner pisses
them off. Back when I used to be relatively fast, and was young and
probably equally as arrogant and stupid, I had no problem being vocal and or
physical with drivers - and on more than one occassion had drivers get out
of their cars to try to run after me. Kinda like me trying to run after
them as they are driving away.

And insofar as right of way, it doesn't do you much good when you're dead
after being run over.

Oh well.

JerryB
 
Len A. wrote:

> Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> road".
>
> We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow.

Depending on the crown of the road and the type of snow and/or ice, I
actually prefer running on the snow than on the road, if I'm going to be
there at all. Where I am, it fills in the crown, so it's more level -
sometimes. The stuff we had around Thanksgiving was just really ugly -
didn't level anything and was like broken glass.


So needless to
> say there was competition for road space with cars.

you'll lose.


Usually I try to
> stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> them.
>
> Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
> traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
> favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".

In cross walks - and probably on sidewalks or bikepaths

as far as legality is concerned. But even there, I'm not going to argue
with a moving vehicle.

Otherwise you're fair game.

If the roads are icy, I'm not about to depend on people being able to
control their cars to avoid hitting me. I've seen cars slide off the
road onto the bike path (not when I was there) or into a ditch beside a
sidewalk - about 50 m in front of me. Actually, they were skidding when
they passed me going the same direction. In recent years, they've put up
more guardrails separating the bike path from the road.

While people should drive with their vehicles under control, the reality
is that not everyone does and some people may not realize their vehicle
isn't under control until they try to maneuver. Just count the number of
4wd in the ditches on the way to Anchorage on snowy/icy days.

Even on good days, I've seen a semi come through a traffic light at the
base of a hill and never slow down. The light had just changed for me to
run across the street with a walk sign in a pedestrian cross-walk. I
waited. I'm alive.

This has a lot to do with me preferring trails.


However, depending on the circumstances, the driver may be charged with
assault, manslaughter, and possibly some degree of murder. But I really
prefer to avoid the situation.

Dot

--
"Dream Big, and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughn
who was with Byrd in Antarctica and whose 99th birthday was Dec 19
 
I don't think pedestrians ever have the right of way if they're running
or walking within the traffic lanes and outside of a designated
crosswalk. I think that luxury is limited to sidewalks and crosswalks,
and even then, it's a legal distinction without a difference if you're in
a hospital bed...or a coffin.

I got hit on my bike in a crosswalk last summer by a guy who looked one
way but not the other before blasting out from a sidestreet. It resulted
in a lot of scrapes and bruises, a strained left knee, several weeks of
no running, more than a hundred bucks in office copays....and the driver
of the delivery van that ran into me didn't even get a ticket.

If I were you, I'd find a nice trail or some sidewalks...

[email protected] (Len A.) wrote in news:514-41CA5313-237@storefull-
3256.bay.webtv.net:

>
> Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> road".
>
> We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
> say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
> stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> them.
>
> Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
> traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
> favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
> Any thoughts out there?
>
> Len
>
 
Newsdude wrote:
> I don't think pedestrians ever have the right of way if they're running
> or walking within the traffic lanes and outside of a designated
> crosswalk. I think that luxury is limited to sidewalks and crosswalks,
> and even then, it's a legal distinction without a difference if you're in
> a hospital bed...or a coffin.
>
> I got hit on my bike in a crosswalk last summer by a guy who looked one
> way but not the other before blasting out from a sidestreet. It resulted
> in a lot of scrapes and bruises, a strained left knee, several weeks of
> no running, more than a hundred bucks in office copays....and the driver
> of the delivery van that ran into me didn't even get a ticket.
>
> If I were you, I'd find a nice trail or some sidewalks...

Just curious, were you riding in a crosswalk or walking the bike across.
If you were riding on the sidewalk and rode through the crosswalk, I
could see the problem. Riding on the sidewalk in most places is not
legal as far as I know. Part of the problem with alternative forms of
transportation is that drivers don't know what to expect from cyclists
sometimes. I cycle quite a bit and ride on the side of the road
observing the same rules motorists do. I got hit in Little Rock, AR by a
young gal. It was obvious who was in the wrong. Fortunately no one was
hurt and her dad owned an insurance company. :)
 
On 2004-12-23, totsob <[email protected]> wrote:

> Just curious, were you riding in a crosswalk or walking the bike across.
> If you were riding on the sidewalk and rode through the crosswalk, I
> could see the problem. Riding on the sidewalk in most places is not
> legal as far as I know.

Also, the drivers simply aren't going to see you if you're riding on the
sidewalk. When they do their looking, they look for oncoming traffic on
the roads. They don't expect to see a rapidly approaching vehicle coming off
the sidewalk.

Often, they can't see you anyway, even if you are on the road. I was hit by a
car at an intersection once, by a guy who simply raced into a left turn
without paying attention (I was going straight). It probably didn't help that
I was going pretty quickly, and visibility was poor that day anyway.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
[email protected] (Len A.) wrote:

>
>Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
>road".
>
>We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
>edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
>say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
>stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
>them.
>
>Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
>traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
>favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
>Any thoughts out there?
>
>Len

Legally, it varies from state to state, from jurisdiction to
jurisdictions.

There are some where the pedestrian has absolute right-of-way.

There are more where they have right-of-way in crosswalks, etc.

Some are vague - pedestrians must "stay to the left as far as
possible." (Assumes facing traffic.)

In Georgia, the pedestrian actually must stay off the road on the
shoulder - a fact we weren't aware of until one of our club members
ended up in court over a confrontation with a driver.

So the answer is... it depends. <g>

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
 
"Len A." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> road".
>
> We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
> say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
> stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> them.
>
> Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
> traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
> favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
> Any thoughts out there?

i think for the real definitive opinion on this we must hear from Miss Ann
Thrope.

until she chimes in i'll just say; you're in the right. they are not allowed
to hit you even if you're stumbling drunk down the center line. i hope that
will be a comfort to you while you're in traction.

>
> Len
>
 
On this particular day, at this particular time, I was on the sidewalk and
in the crosswalk -- something I rarely do anyway because the road is where
bikers should be and should be expected to be. But traffic had been heavy
further up the street due to some roadwork, so I picked the sidewalk
instead. But not again.

>
> Just curious, were you riding in a crosswalk or walking the bike
> across. If you were riding on the sidewalk and rode through the
> crosswalk, I could see the problem. Riding on the sidewalk in most
> places is not legal as far as I know. Part of the problem with
> alternative forms of transportation is that drivers don't know what to
> expect from cyclists sometimes. I cycle quite a bit and ride on the
> side of the road observing the same rules motorists do. I got hit in
> Little Rock, AR by a young gal. It was obvious who was in the wrong.
> Fortunately no one was hurt and her dad owned an insurance company.
> :)
>
 
Yes you have the right of way, and the driver has the responsibility to
stay in control of his car and not hit you. But if that car hits you
chances are we'll be saying this at your funeral.

Cars win when snow is on the road. I've run through snow banks up to my
knees to get out of the way of cars, not because they were out to get
me but because I felt it was safer than any possible confrontation.
There have been times where I've stopped to let cars pass.
The laws of physics win out over the laws of the road here.

Andy
 
>Subject: What is the law? Do pedestrians (runners) have the right of way.
>From: [email protected] (Len A.)
>Date: 12/23/2004 12:09 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>
>Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
>road".
>
>We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
>edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
>say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
>stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
>them.
>
>Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
>traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
>favor.

Yes...but not everyone obeys it. I think the important laws to consider here
are the laws of physics.

I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
>Any thoughts out there?
>
>Len
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
road running is about self preservation first & foremost. i wear a reflective
vest in the day time when on streets. ya know a jogger is killed just about
every week....usually in the dawn hours. below are some stats of a recent
study.
______________

Dec 2, 2004 10:02 am US/Mountain
WASHINGTON (AP) Cities in the South and West are the most dangerous for
pedestrians, with four in Florida earning the dubious distinction of being the
deadliest of all.

A private study released Thursday concluded that sprawling, newer cities in the
South and West tend to be built with wide, high-speed roads that are especially
dangerous for walking.

"So much of our transportation system is designed for cars and only cars," said
Anne Canby, president of the Surface Transportation Policy Project, which
issued the report. The group advocates balanced transportation.

The report found that the 9,746 walkers who died in 2002-2003 were more likely
to be killed on busy streets without crosswalks. Nearly 40 percent died where
crosswalks weren't available.

"Wide roads, speeding traffic and a lack of crosswalks or sidewalks can make
walking a deadly activity," the report said. "There simply are not enough
pedestrian facilities."

Regional differences in walking safety are stark. Twice as many walkers die in
traffic accidents in New Orleans, San Diego and Phoenix than in Minneapolis,
Milwaukee and Boston.

People are three times more likely to be struck and killed on streets in
Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Fla., Orlando and Miami-Fort Lauderdale than
they are in Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus, Ohio.

Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, characterized by traffic speeding along
eight-lane boulevards, was ranked first for its dangerous roads, with 3.69
deaths per 100,000 people in 2002-2003.

Denver, with 1.54 deaths per 100,000, ranked safer than Los Angeles, Detroit,
Houston or Chicago, but not quite as safe as Oklahoma City, Nashville, Kansas
City or Indianapolis.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio was announcing plans Thursday for improving pedestrian
safety on Bay Shore Boulevard, one of the city's main thoroughfares. Iorio was
responding to public concern over a young female jogger who was killed in
February by a speeding motorcyclist while she tried to cross the busy
boulevard.

Tampa City Council member Linda Saul-Sena, head of a new "Walkable Roadways"
committee, wants drivers to recognize that city streets are for people, not for
speed.

"It's changing the culture so the person in the SUV on the cell phone knows
that it's their responsibility to stop and respect the pedestrians," said
Saul-Sena.

Tampa can take heart from Salt Lake City, which STPP gave poor marks for
protecting its walkers shortly after Rocky Anderson was elected mayor in 2000.

As new mayor, Anderson, who campaigned on making the city more walkable, saw a
hit-and-run accident that injured a pedestrian on a downtown street. The victim
survived, but Anderson vowed he would make the city's pedestrians more visible
in a city where long blocks and very wide streets make walking dangerous.

The city put red flags in containers that pedestrians can carry across
intersections and wave at drivers. Overhead lights that pedestrians can
activate were installed at intersections. Undercover police ticketed drivers
who failed to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks.

Salt Lake City also promotes walking around downtown by making it a better
experience. Outdoor dining is now encouraged, ordinances were changed to make
signs more interesting, artists and performers are allowed on public sidewalks.


As a result, accidents involving pedestrians fell 36 percent, to 114, in the
first 11 months of 2004, from 177 in 2001.

The STPP ranked Salt Lake City the most improved city for pedestrian safety.

"It's about creating a more interesting, vibrant community, and it's working,"
Anderson said.

Data:

Metropolitan areas with 1 million or more people ranked by average annual
pedestrian deaths per 100,000 people in 2002-2003:

Metro Area
Tampa-St. Petersburg, Fla. 3.69
Orlando, Fla. 3.15
Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 2.94
West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, Fla. 2.86
Las Vegas 2.74
Phoenix 2.44
San Diego 2.33
New Orleans 2.24
Los Angeles 2.11
Sacramento, Calif. 2.08
Memphis, Tenn. 2.07
Detroit 2.03
Jacksonville, Fla. 2.02
Houston 1.97
New York 1.94
San Antonio 1.94
Greensboro-(&other cities), N.C. 1.90
Philadelphia 1.87
Raleigh-Durham, N.C. 1.84
Atlanta 1.83
Washington, D.C.-Baltimore, Md. 1.76
Chicago 1.67
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose 1.61
Grand Rapids-(&other cities), Mich. 1.56
Denver 1.54
St. Louis 1.54
Dallas-Fort Worth 1.53
Buffalo-Niagara Falls, N.Y. 1.51
Oklahoma City 1.44
Nashville, Tenn. 1.40
Kansas City, Mo. 1.36
Seattle-Tacoma 1.36
New Haven-(&other cities), Conn. 1.35
Louisville, Ky. 1.34
Richmond, Va. 1.31
Austin-San Marcos, Texas 1.29
Portland-Salem, Ore. 1.28
Charlotte, N.C. 1.26
Hartford, Conn. 1.24
Rochester, N.Y. 1.23
Indianapolis 1.20
Salt Lake City 1.09
Norfolk-Virginia Beach, Va. 1.08
Pittsburgh 1.05
Boston 1.02
Milwaukee 1.00
Columbus, Ohio 0.97
Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minn. 0.96
Cincinnati-Hamilton 0.80
Cleveland 0.65

Source: Surface Transportation Policy Project
 
"Len A." wrote:
>
> Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> road".
>
> We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
> say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
> stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> them.
>
> Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
> traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
> favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
> Any thoughts out there?
>
> Len


pedestrians have the right of way at intersections
and cross walks. But may depend on local/state laws.

I always run into oncomming traffic, so I can see
the cars comming and move to the side. A little
detour through some slush and snow is inevitable
when wiinter running on roads.

As for the hooligans, throw snowballs. Then when they
try to catch you run a route across drifts and yards
they can't follow.
 
Dot wrote:
>
> Len A. wrote:
>
> > Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> > road".
> >
> > We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> > edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow.
>
> Depending on the crown of the road and the type of snow and/or ice, I
> actually prefer running on the snow than on the road,

Me too. The snow on the side of the road usually provides
better traction the slush/black ice typically in the road.
And the deeper it is the more of a workout it is.

if I'm going to be
> there at all. Where I am, it fills in the crown, so it's more level -
> sometimes. The stuff we had around Thanksgiving was just really ugly -
> didn't level anything and was like broken glass.
>
> So needless to
> > say there was competition for road space with cars.
>
> you'll lose.
>
> Usually I try to
> > stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> > them.
> >
> > Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
> > traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
> > favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
> In cross walks - and probably on sidewalks or bikepaths
>
> as far as legality is concerned. But even there, I'm not going to argue
> with a moving vehicle.
>
> Otherwise you're fair game.
>
> If the roads are icy, I'm not about to depend on people being able to
> control their cars to avoid hitting me. I've seen cars slide off the
> road onto the bike path (not when I was there) or into a ditch beside a
> sidewalk - about 50 m in front of me. Actually, they were skidding when
> they passed me going the same direction. In recent years, they've put up
> more guardrails separating the bike path from the road.
>
> While people should drive with their vehicles under control, the reality
> is that not everyone does and some people may not realize their vehicle
> isn't under control until they try to maneuver. Just count the number of
> 4wd in the ditches on the way to Anchorage on snowy/icy days.
>
> Even on good days, I've seen a semi come through a traffic light at the
> base of a hill and never slow down. The light had just changed for me to
> run across the street with a walk sign in a pedestrian cross-walk. I
> waited. I'm alive.
>
> This has a lot to do with me preferring trails.
>
> However, depending on the circumstances, the driver may be charged with
> assault, manslaughter, and possibly some degree of murder. But I really
> prefer to avoid the situation.
>
> Dot
>
> --
> "Dream Big, and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughn
> who was with Byrd in Antarctica and whose 99th birthday was Dec 19
 
Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from [email protected] of
23 Dec 2004:

> Yes you have the right of way, and the driver has the responsibility to
> stay in control of his car and not hit you. But if that car hits you
> chances are we'll be saying this at your funeral.
>
> Cars win when snow is on the road. I've run through snow banks up to my
> knees to get out of the way of cars, not because they were out to get
> me but because I felt it was safer than any possible confrontation.
> There have been times where I've stopped to let cars pass.
> The laws of physics win out over the laws of the road here.

I will go out of my way to run around the back of a car rather than take
the chance that the driver doesn't know I exist. On the street I'm usually
on the left side, running against traffic. If I see a car approaching an
intersection from the left or at a stop sign, I always run around the back
of that car. Most drivers don't look to their far right, especially if
they're turning right.

Phil M.
 
>I will go out of my way to run around the back of a car rather than take
>the chance that the driver doesn't know I exist. On the street I'm usually
>on the left side, running against traffic. If I see a car approaching an
>intersection from the left or at a stop sign, I always run around the back
>of that car. Most drivers don't look to their far right, especially if
>they're turning right.
>
>Phil M.

I'm with Phil, if you MUST run on the road, do as he suggested.
 
law of physics.
is if the car hits you. your bug squash.
runners and walkers can use both sides.
bikers both sides in areas close to turn street. or stores and like 120
feet in middle turn around lanes. other wise bikers got to be the same
as car traffic laws. and has to wear a helmet.
runners are to obey the laws of bike too when in traffic. same laws
applied.

I saw a biker in tenner, on t.v. 1 foot from the side of this car.
black and white. away from a white out. going agen traffic. and look
like two way traffic with 3 tire tracks.
he was on the wrong side riding, can't blame him, butt law says he
must walk on wrong side, and ride with traffic along shoulder side as
close to as possible.
he was riding, could not see or hear traffic I guest.

on a good note, a huffy bike, and a helmet and a scarf across his
face.
maybe he wanted to get home too. or to work. or to the food place. or
just to ride.
or not. winter time better wear bright colors. in white out time.

unless being hunted.
 
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