What is the law? Do pedestrians (runners) have the right of way.



>As for the hooligans, throw snowballs. Then when they
>try to catch you run a route across drifts and yards
>they can't follow.

Not exactly sage 'advice' for various reasons. Here in Texas and in some other
states as well, throwing anything at cars can result in a serious felony
conviction. The laws are aimed at imbeciles who lob bricks and rocks etc. from
overpasses and the like, onto moving vehicles. However prosecutors can and
will use it in cases involving pretty much anything being hurled at a car.
Beware.

Bert
Houston
 
"Bert Duplessis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Here in Texas and in some other states as well, throwing anything at
> cars can result in a serious felony conviction.
>

It can also get you shot.
Then the other guy might get a felony conviction, but you're the one who's
hurt (or worse).
bj
 
Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from [email protected] of
24 Dec 2004:

>>As for the hooligans, throw snowballs. Then when they
>>try to catch you run a route across drifts and yards
>>they can't follow.
>
> Not exactly sage 'advice' for various reasons. Here in Texas and in
> some other states as well, throwing anything at cars can result in a
> serious felony conviction. The laws are aimed at imbeciles who lob
> bricks and rocks etc. from overpasses and the like, onto moving
> vehicles. However prosecutors can and will use it in cases involving
> pretty much anything being hurled at a car. Beware.

I have tried different aggressive approaches to dealing with idiots in
cars. None of them work. If they do work, the consequences of the action
may be too severe to be worth it. The best thing for me is to remain calm,
remain focused, appear totally oblivious to any external, idiotic forces.

Phil M.

If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu

YMMV
 
>I have tried different aggressive approaches to dealing with idiots in
>cars. None of them work. If they do work, the consequences of the action
>may be too severe to be worth it.

The best one, that's always worked for me (for a REAL man like myself, you
157lb weaklings may have problems) is to stop and pretend to pick up a rock,
inspect it like you really have one, and pretend to line up for a shot at the
car. Their attitude changes from aggression to retreat REAL FAST when they
think you're going to shoot a baseball-size rock through their window. These
aggressive morons need to be met with the only thing they understand,
agression.
This has worked for me every single time I've used it.
 
Bert Duplessis wrote:
>
> >As for the hooligans, throw snowballs. Then when they
> >try to catch you run a route across drifts and yards
> >they can't follow.
>
> Not exactly sage 'advice' for various reasons.

I was being facetious, you know, as in humor. Anyway
it's self defense, plus the hooligans word against
yours :)

Any DA worth their law degree is (1) not going to
bother with such silly matters (unless you're stupid
enough to lob a brick with intent instead of a
snowball, and (2) prosecute the hooligans who began
the harrassment. Which is a deadlier weapon, a 1500
pound vehicle driven by thugs or a snowball?

> Here in Texas and in some other
> states as well, throwing anything at cars can result in a serious felony
> conviction. The laws are aimed at imbeciles who lob bricks and rocks etc. from
> overpasses and the like, onto moving vehicles. However prosecutors can and
> will use it in cases involving pretty much anything being hurled at a car.
> Beware.
>
> Bert
> Houston
 
bj wrote:
>
> "Bert Duplessis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Here in Texas and in some other states as well, throwing anything at
> > cars can result in a serious felony conviction.
> >
>
> It can also get you shot.
> Then the other guy might get a felony conviction, but you're the one who's
> hurt (or worse).
> bj


Yeah...only in Texas. What do you expect from
state that executes people for spitting on the
sidewalk and thinks dubya is a "compassionate"
conservative?
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> On 2004-12-23, totsob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Just curious, were you riding in a crosswalk or walking the bike across.
>>If you were riding on the sidewalk and rode through the crosswalk, I
>>could see the problem. Riding on the sidewalk in most places is not
>>legal as far as I know.
>
> Also, the drivers simply aren't going to see you if you're riding on the
> sidewalk. When they do their looking, they look for oncoming traffic on
> the roads. They don't expect to see a rapidly approaching vehicle coming off
> the sidewalk.

Boulder has an excellent "bike path" system that mostly avoids
crossing regular streets at grade (unlike other local cities I
could mention), but one of the few exceptions is on the only road
to my condo complex.

Pedestrians have right of way. I yield to them.

Cyclists _do not_ have right of way. If your ass is in the seat
you're a vehicle, the bike path is a secondary road, and you must
yield to all traffic.

Most cyclists, especially college students, don't know the law.
They've listened to a few local idiots who loudly proclaim that
cyclists should have the right to blow through red lights, etc.
and think that they have the same rights as pedestrians. Unless
they're walking their bike they don't. But they're normally
moving slow enough that either they'll see me refuse to yield (and
they usually glare at me, but besides being in the right I believe
it will help keep them safe by reminding them that not every car
will stop) or I'll have time to avoid hitting them.

But a few idiots insist on flying through the intersection.
There's absolutely no way to see them (due to screening trees or
parked cars) - they must expect every car to stop every time even
though drivers have no problems seeing pedestrians approaching the
crosswalk. I'm surprised none (or so few) have been nailed.
 
Mike Tennent wrote:
> [email protected] (Len A.) wrote:
>>Now I understand the motorist trying to navigate against on coming
>>traffic and not hitting a runner but isn't the law in the runner's
>>favor. I always thought that pedestrians had "right of way".
>
> Legally, it varies from state to state, from jurisdiction to
> jurisdictions.

Besides the practical issues raised by other comments, this point
needs to be driven home - there is no single nationwide answer to
this question.

A few years ago a (drunk?) student was struck by a car. Boulder
is very strict about stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks - we
even have a number of intersections with pedestrian-activated
flashing lights, safe harbors in medians, etc.

But in this case the student was charged because he was far from
any crosswalk. Pedestrians in traffic are "obstructing traffic"
(or something like that). They have no right to be there. (That
doesn't mean that drivers can hit them at will, but a student
dressed head to toe in black in the middle of a road at night...)

BTW, I hug the shoulder when traffic is near, but I'll move to the
center of the lane if there's no oncoming traffic. That gives me
a better view of approaching traffic, and I believe I'm easier to
see as I cross the driver's field of vision than I am if I'm
always hugging the shoulder.
 
Let's make a deal. I won't complain when you're jogging in traffic, and
you don't complain when my pick up truck mirror shears off your left
ear. You're a jogger, you gave up your rights when you started putting
tape on your nipples.
 
Len A. wrote:
> Today I was yelled at by passing car ( young men), "Get out of the
> road".
>
> We recently had some snow here in New England so running on the very
> edge of the road was not possible due to ice and snow. So needless to
> say there was competition for road space with cars. Usually I try to
> stay on side streets but I must cross main roads in order to get to
> them.

1) never compete for road space with cars, runner always loses, always
risky, never any good justification for being in traffic lane

2) shoulder is mine, especially in snow, footing same if not better
than slick center of road as others have mentioned

3) always defer to cars when crossing street, despite right-of-way in
NY State law, motorists late for work or oblivious college students in
daddy's SUV just can't be trusted to care enough to look both ways and
respect someone on foot

4) after ***hole yells and passes, I salute their neighborly-ness with
my middle finger. They're too busy to stop and turn around, probably
don't see me in the first place, and I get the satisfaction. If,
amazingly, some hothead motorist actually turned around to pick a fight
with me for giving him the finger, I'd be easily dashing off through
front and back yards of neighborhoods where hothead motorist can't catch
me. Hothead motorist is too fat and out of shape to catch me anyway.
Not politically correct, but the human response is that I get angry when
insulted for no reason, and I feel ok about giving the finger in
meaningless retaliation.

-- Josh in Syracuse where there is minimal courtesy for runners/cyclists
but room enough to coexist
 
Of course. Says so on my tombstone:
"but I had the right of way".
 
In article <Uy_yd.706025$mD.23970@attbi_s02>,
Bear G <[email protected]> wrote:

> Most cyclists, especially college students, don't know the law.
> They've listened to a few local idiots who loudly proclaim that
> cyclists should have the right to blow through red lights, etc.
> and think that they have the same rights as pedestrians. Unless
> they're walking their bike they don't. But they're normally
> moving slow enough that either they'll see me refuse to yield (and
> they usually glare at me, but besides being in the right I believe
> it will help keep them safe by reminding them that not every car
> will stop) or I'll have time to avoid hitting them.
>


I was in the process of passing a cyclist who was riding on the side of
the road. I was about 4 feet from his back wheel when he stuck his arm
out to signal a left turn, then he started to move over. I blew my horn.
He starts screaming "I signalled!" Well, yeah, that's nice, but I was
already passing you and, you know, you still need to look before you
start moving over. If you were driving a car there, putting on your turn
signal doesn't give you the right to turn across another lane of moving
traffic.

When I bike, if I want to turn left I first wait for an opening and I
take the lane. Then I signal my turn.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
Harold Buck wrote:
>
> In article <Uy_yd.706025$mD.23970@attbi_s02>,
> Bear G <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Most cyclists, especially college students, don't know the law.
> > They've listened to a few local idiots who loudly proclaim that
> > cyclists should have the right to blow through red lights, etc.
> > and think that they have the same rights as pedestrians. Unless
> > they're walking their bike they don't. But they're normally
> > moving slow enough that either they'll see me refuse to yield (and
> > they usually glare at me, but besides being in the right I believe
> > it will help keep them safe by reminding them that not every car
> > will stop) or I'll have time to avoid hitting them.
> >
>
> I was in the process of passing a cyclist who was riding on the side of
> the road. I was about 4 feet from his back wheel when he stuck his arm
> out to signal a left turn, then he started to move over. I blew my horn.
> He starts screaming "I signalled!" Well, yeah, that's nice, but I was
> already passing you and, you know, you still need to look before you
> start moving over. If you were driving a car there, putting on your turn
> signal doesn't give you the right to turn across another lane of moving
> traffic.
>
> When I bike, if I want to turn left I first wait for an opening and I
> take the lane. Then I signal my turn.

Biker or runner, it's _OUR_ responsibilty to
keep an eye out for traffic.

Nothing gets my goad more than a thoughtles cyclist
or pedestrian who thinks I as a (sober) driver can
actually _see_ and anticipate them...
 
Yeah. But nothing gets me more than clueless drivers. I went on a 5-mile
run yesterday. Twice, I thought I was going to be hit, once by a woman
more interested in her car radio than the stop sign in front of her; And
a second time by an oldster who ripped off a left turn onto the street I
was crossing without even looking.

But the biggest offenders: Assholes who don't know or can't comprehend
the stop line and a BASIC damn rule of driving: You stop BEFORE the
traffic control device -- that's why the stop line is there. On a daily
basis, I lose count of the number of cars that stop in the middle of the
crosswalk.

But I do know one thing, based on observation: The drivers least likely
to give a thought to pedestrians usually appear as if they're the ones
that most need to become pedestrians once in a while.

Tom Phillips <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:


> Biker or runner, it's _OUR_ responsibilty to
> keep an eye out for traffic.
>
> Nothing gets my goad more than a thoughtles cyclist
> or pedestrian who thinks I as a (sober) driver can
> actually _see_ and anticipate them...
>
 
Yeah. But nothing gets me more than clueless drivers. I went on a 5-mile
run yesterday. Twice, I thought I was going to be hit, once by a woman
more interested in her car radio than the stop sign in front of her; And
a second time by an oldster who ripped off a left turn onto the street I
was crossing without even looking.

But the biggest offenders: Assholes who don't know or can't comprehend
the stop line and a BASIC damn rule of driving: You stop BEFORE the
traffic control device -- that's why the stop line is there. On a daily
basis, I lose count of the number of cars that stop in the middle of the
crosswalk.

But I do know one thing, based on observation: The drivers least likely
to give a thought to pedestrians usually appear as if they're the ones
that most need to become pedestrians once in a while.

Tom Phillips <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:


> Biker or runner, it's _OUR_ responsibilty to
> keep an eye out for traffic.
>
> Nothing gets my goad more than a thoughtles cyclist
> or pedestrian who thinks I as a (sober) driver can
> actually _see_ and anticipate them...
>
 
"Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> He starts screaming "I signalled!"

As would any sane person...

>Well, yeah, that's nice, but I was
> already passing you

But you said you were 'about 4 feet from his back wheel'!?! Don't know
about yankeeland, but in Europe the phrase 'officer, I was already
overtaking him' only counts if your front wheels were past his rear wheels.
On a racetrack (yes, I know, you weren't, but it serves to illustrate a
point) the overtaking driver only has priority if his front wheels are PAST
the drivers head in the car being overtaken.

> and, you know, you still need to look before you
> start moving over.

Have to agree with you there. But, really, if you'd taken the guy off his
bike and he'd ended up under the wheels of the following car, would you
*still* feel you'd done everything correctly? You're in two tons of metal
sitting on your fat ass, for christsake! Move you wrist or feet a couple
of inches and brake or give the guy a little extra room. Allow for
stupidity, Would it do you any harm?

> --Harold Buck

Harold, you're rapidly becoming someone I *intensely* dislike.


Roger.
 
>I was in the process of passing a cyclist who was riding on the side of
>the road. I was about 4 feet from his back wheel when he stuck his arm
>out to signal a left turn, then he started to move over. I blew my horn.
>He starts screaming "I signalled!" Well, yeah, that's nice, but I was
>already passing you and, you know, you still need to look before you
>start moving over. If you were driving a car there, putting on your turn
>signal doesn't give you the right to turn across another lane of moving
>traffic.
>

You know I've had similar experiences. They think that you're moving at their
speed, and don't consider you are much faster, and the vehicle has a much
longer reaction time than the toys they're riding on do.
 
I'm from Texas, and we have a "Runner" that runs 2 ft onto the pavement of our country road, wears ear phones, and rarely looks up when running. I have always given her a wide birth, until one day she was running out of a blind curve. I moved over, only to confront a dump truck. I was then faced with either hitting the truck, or her. I chose the truck, tried my best to aim for the middle of what road I had, and ended up destroying my driver's side mirror. The dump truck ran off the road, and created a huge dust cloud, and it was only then did she notice what was going on. What's worse is I saw her in my rear view, with her back to me, hands on hips, like she was all mad for getting dusty.
I called the Sheriff's Dept, and was told that if I leave MY SIDE OF THE ROAD, I am responsible for any, and all damages!
From that day on, I've held my side of the road, even if I'm clear to move over. I will not make that mistake again.It only took 1 time for me to do this to her, and now, (as I'm sure she hates me), at least she pays attention, and gets out of my way.
I hate to say it, but if I'm ever faced with that kind of situation again, well, I'm not leaving my lane.
I understand that there is no price comparable to human life, but I will not be held accountable for someone elses ineptness to pay attention.
You can hate me all you want, but YOU, as a runner should pay attention to ALL of your surroundings.
 
The runners around here hog the whole cycle track, worse are the ones with psycho dogs darting left and right as you pass them.
 
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