What JU should do to try and win TdF 06



musette said:
JU prep is becoming more and more like LA.

Now what does that say about the effectiveness of Bruyneel's system?
We can't really say until we see if it works for Jan.
If Jan fails using the Armstrong/DSC method, is it Jan or the method that is the failure?

If Valverde wins the next 8 tours doing a non-DSC method, what will you say then?

There are many ways to skin a cat and the Armstrong method is not the only way to win the Tour.
 
Eldrack said:
Next years tour will be interesting to say the least. I think for JU to win he has to be on form for the prologue and take time out of the climbers like Basso, Cunego, Valverde. With Mic Rogers to help boost the team time trial T-Mobile should be able to win this stage, though CSC will give them a tough challenge if this year is anything to go by. Then its a case of staying with the climbers for as long as possible in the mountains to keep time losses to a minimum.

I think JU can win next years tour, but so could Basso, Valverde, Cunego etc. Or even LA if he makes a suprise comeback to ******** the French. Should be a nice tight race.
there is no team time trial this year, which will keep GC from getting skewed for a few days
 
patch70 said:
We can't really say until we see if it works for Jan.
If Jan fails using the Armstrong/DSC method, is it Jan or the method that is the failure?

If Valverde wins the next 8 tours doing a non-DSC method, what will you say then?

There are many ways to skin a cat and the Armstrong method is not the only way to win the Tour.
Agree with patch, for a change.

Bruyneel and Lance found a method out of necessity because Lance loved to train that way going back to triathlon days, high volume, low intensity, peaking for an event all made sense to him.

It was ALSO because he was still only a couple of years out from cancer and was afraid high intensity training in bulk, like he used to do as a classics rider, would supress his immune system and he'd grow weak, ill and relapse.

Most of the riders who have done the Disco/Postal method have trained differently when they went on to be succesful.
Tyler, lets hold off the blood doping chimera stuff--said he had to completely retrain with Riis, because Lance was naturally more explosive, the high volume low intensity stiff worked for Lance. Not so Tyler. Tyler had to do a lot more high end stuff. motor pacing etc to get race ready.

Hincapie in this months Velonews said Dec and Jan riding 6-8 hours a day like the old school classics guys didnt work for him. He does shorter higher quality training in Dec Jan and let racing add in the aerobic volume stuff in Feb and March.

So the short of it, Jan should have by now figured out how to enter the race competetive-- but he hasnt. 2003 and 1997 were his best years. 97 pre-Festina and 2003 off Telekom. He wont figure it out this year either, but that margin of error may be allowable and he can still win, it never was with Lance in the race.

Now, if Riis and Basso are reading, they should go out and hammer the first uphill finishes.
Buit alas, Jean Marie has already fixed the deal. He picked a long ITT before the mountains so Ullrich (or Zabriskie) will be in yellow likely--creating momentum for big Jan, and the first uphlll finish is not steep at all, very much like Arcalis where Jan won the 97 tour.
Too bad they dont do La Mongie or Pla d'Adet first or second even.
This years course is a shitty one and designed to not let a climber win.

Why do they have to fix the race course instead of keeping it classic with many uphills and hard ITTs, and also drop the team TT so Disco cant podium.
 
bobke said:
Why do they have to fix the race course instead of keeping it classic with many uphills and hard ITTs, and also drop the team TT so Disco cant podium.
I agree. As a spectator, I think they have dropped many of the interesting elements.
For example: What is the most interesting
1. Watching the GC contenders sort it out on a hard climb. [YEAH]
2. Watching the sprinter-teams reel in the breakaway.[YAWN]

On flat stages, I just watch the last 10k or so..

The time-trials would be interesting if the TV producers knew how to produce them.
 
patch70 said:
If Valverde wins the next 8 tours doing a non-DSC method, what will you say then?

I'm glad to mention Valverde, because he too is imitating certain aspects of the LA formula. He is now going high cadence, like LA, per Procycling. :p
 
musette said:
I'm glad to mention Valverde, because he too is imitating certain aspects of the LA formula. He is now going high cadence, like LA, per Procycling. :p
With the exception of drugs..... :p
 
oh c'mon, everyone knows Riis will have his magic candy in plentiful supply. Watch, as Cancellara suddenly turns into Hincapie. I mean, that team can make Luttenberger time trial :D :eek:
 
whiteboytrash said:
With the exception of drugs..... :p
Really? He rode in Kelme which is full of drugs. I think he reached podium with Kelme in Vuelta 2003. Look at the winner Heras and runner-up Perez- where are they now? So... Valverde can't be clean...
 
In order to win TDF, Ullrich should ride it like champion he is. To win and not to think about his opponents. He should be determined, he should take advantage on the fact he is the man. He should be convinced he's the strongest. Everyone in peloton are afraid of him and his potential. He has to know that and use pre-Tour races to tell them: "I know you're thinking about me", to show them he's more determined than ever. He should discourage his opponents in that way.
He should use Giro to tell Basso: "I'm TT master and you're going to bust your ass to drop me in the mountains". To intimidate him in some way.
Maybe sounds aggressive, someone would say "Armstrong kind of approach", but the point is he should take advantage on the fact he's clear favorite and most complete and talented and experience rider in peloton.

 
Andrija said:
In order to win TDF, Ullrich should ride it like champion he is. To win and not to think about his opponents. He should be determined, he should take advantage on the fact he is the man. He should be convinced he's the strongest. Everyone in peloton are afraid of him and his potential. He has to know that and use pre-Tour races to tell them: "I know you're thinking about me", to show them he's more determined than ever. He should discourage his opponents in that way.
He should use Giro to tell Basso: "I'm TT master and you're going to bust your ass to drop me in the mountains". To intimidate him in some way.
Maybe sounds aggressive, someone would say "Armstrong kind of approach", but the point is he should take advantage on the fact he's clear favorite and most complete and talented and experience rider in peloton.


And building on your theme : Ullrich is the only man currently racing to have won the TDF before.
So that alone gives him an advantage.

As good as Basso, Cunego etc are - that final step to the top rung can be intimidating.

Jan is a pretty laid back character.
I don't think that it is in his nature to try to intimidate his opponents by being aggressive : maybe if he was a little bit more aggressive it would help?
 
limerickman said:
And building on your theme : Ullrich is the only man currently racing to have won the TDF before.
So that alone gives him an advantage.

As good as Basso, Cunego etc are - that final step to the top rung can be intimidating.

Jan is a pretty laid back character.
I don't think that it is in his nature to try to intimidate his opponents by being aggressive : maybe if he was a little bit more aggressive it would help?
I think it would defenitly help him, but as you said he is a pretty laid back character. Altough... behind the scenes there was a huge power struggle at TM and the Jan camp has won it (Pevenage back, Godefroot out)...
 
limerickman said:
And building on your theme : Ullrich is the only man currently racing to have won the TDF before.
So that alone gives him an advantage.
That's exactly what I mean when I say "like the champion he is" and when I'm mentioning his experience.
About intimidating and aggressivenes, I meant more like: "Look at me, I'm 1997. Jan again, you have no chance". Nothing arrogant and (or) rude. Just to make rivals sure he's at his best. That's scary enough.
 
musette said:
I'm glad to mention Valverde, because he too is imitating certain aspects of the LA formula. He is now going high cadence, like LA, per Procycling. :p
Unfortunately you missed the point. The question was what you will say if another rider (it doesn't have to be Valverde - just an example) wins 8 straight Tours using a non-Armstrong method.
 
limerickman said:
And building on your theme : Ullrich is the only man currently racing to have won the TDF before.
So that alone gives him an advantage.

As good as Basso, Cunego etc are - that final step to the top rung can be intimidating.

Jan is a pretty laid back character.
I don't think that it is in his nature to try to intimidate his opponents by being aggressive : maybe if he was a little bit more aggressive it would help?

Agreed that Jan is not, by character, an intimidator. But he needs to show up in shape and keep his melon from cracking through car windows. Especially with Lance gone, he has a chance to terrify the field if he shows up and rides a good prologue. A top 5 time in the prologue and every team will fear him no matter how he carries himself. If he drops to 20th again and loses time to the favorites, they will know he won't come into form till the last week again and they can take time out of him before that. He needs to find his final week form in the first week for once.
 
Another good laugh from Musette - Armstrong discovered the high cadence pedalling style.

Watch a rider like Van Impe - even the young Virenque - many, many riders have employed this technique before Armstrong.

I appreciate it's not your fault - you just suck up whatever the Armstrong fan sites tell you - but woeful misinformation like that is really annoying...
 
micron said:
Another good laugh from Musette - Armstrong discovered the high cadence pedalling style.

Watch a rider like Van Impe - even the young Virenque - many, many riders have employed this technique before Armstrong.

I appreciate it's not your fault - you just suck up whatever the Armstrong fan sites tell you - but woeful misinformation like that is really annoying...

Yeah, Stephen Roche and Greg leMond (are we allowed to refer to him, 'cause St Lance doesn't like him?) used high cadence style too.
 
big jan has to get off his fat ar.se and do something. anything. no point sitting there grinding thru the big ones, he'l get eaten alive on the hills. drop it down a gear for christ sake, get your fat ar.se out of the saddle for once in your life, pretend you're not german and attack for once, go mad, do a vino or something.
 
micron said:
Another good laugh from Musette - Armstrong discovered the high cadence pedalling style...

Another good laugh from me at people who don't seem to be reading properly. What's woeful are people not being able to read accurately -- is it lack of care, or lack of reading ability?

I said, "I'm glad to mention Valverde, because he too is imitating certain aspects of the LA formula. He is now going high cadence, like LA, per Procycling." That does not mean LA invented the high cadence style, as suggested by certain posters. That means that LA used a high cadence style and that is part of LA's formula. Obviously those points were stated in my prior post.
 
limerickman said:
Yeah, Stephen Roche and Greg leMond (are we allowed to refer to him, 'cause St Lance doesn't like him?) used high cadence style too.
Ummm, I am not so sure about Greg and high cadence.
Whenever I see him on the old Tour tapes he looks like he is muscling his way up the climbs. I mean maybe relative to his times it was fast.

What made you say Greg was high cadence?