What made the last big bike boom? The next?

[Tim Jones]

"Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:52:22 +1000, Tim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Women are the main users of SUVs here - hoons (people who love muscle cars) tend to drive v8
> > sedans and coups.
>
> You guys have v8 sedans and coups? Brand new? Lucky bastards. V8s only get put in really heavy
> vehicles here.
>
> We're supposed to get the Monaro renamed to GTO, but I don't think they are going to offer it
> with a v8.
>

Any idea why that is? I thought it would be popular.

The Monaro is an attractive car.

FWIW, my car (when I occassionally need one) is a v8 6.9 litre old mercedes (not that I'm into
muscle cars).

Tim

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tim Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:52:22 +1000, Tim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Women are the main users of SUVs here - hoons (people who love muscle cars) tend to drive v8
> > > sedans and coups.
> >
> > You guys have v8 sedans and coups? Brand new? Lucky bastards. V8s only get put in really heavy
> > vehicles here.
> >
> > We're supposed to get the Monaro renamed to GTO, but I don't think they are going to offer it
> > with a v8.

No, the V8 is the primary reason why Bob Lutz insisted that GM bring the Monaro/GTO in. He sees it
as a replacement image/performance car for the now-gone Camaro/Firebird ("F-body") and the
Caprice-based Impala SS.

> Any idea why that is? I thought it would be popular.
>
> The Monaro is an attractive car.

It will fit well into the Pontiac line-up. Should bring some actual excitement into the brand,
rather than the ersatz excitement of the Grand Am et al.

And may finally make us all forget the Aztek,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:54:03 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> may have said:

>And may finally make us all forget the Aztek,

Unless they recall them all, we won't have the luxury of being able to forget about the Aztek.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:36:16 +1000, Tim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>> We're supposed to get the Monaro renamed to GTO, but I don't think they are going to offer it
>> with a v8.
>
> Any idea why that is? I thought it would be popular.

It's just a hunch; V8 cars have damn near died here, so I don't imagine a new one coming out.
Millions would want one, but nobody would buy one, I'm guessing.

> The Monaro is an attractive car.

Is it? I'll have to take another look; last I saw, I thought it was boring, but I may have seen an
unattractive picture of it, or a concept GTO picture.

> Tim
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Tim Jones]

"Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:36:16 +1000, Tim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> We're supposed to get the Monaro renamed to GTO, but I don't think they are going to offer it
> >> with a v8.
> >
> > Any idea why that is? I thought it would be popular.
>
> It's just a hunch; V8 cars have damn near died here, so I don't imagine a new one coming out.
> Millions would want one, but nobody would buy one, I'm guessing.
>

Why is that - fuel? SUVs?

> > The Monaro is an attractive car.
>
> Is it? I'll have to take another look; last I saw, I thought it was boring, but I may have seen an
> unattractive picture of it, or a concept GTO picture.
>

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

> > Tim
> --
> Rick Onanian

 

[Goimir]

"Mike S." wrote:
> I can second this from my own (very) un-scientific observations.
>
> Other things to watch out for: Jesus fish on the rear of the car People wearing hats Medicare
> sleds: big ole Caddies, Lincolns, Mercury Grand Marquis, etc. People talking on cell phones
> without a headset Young females: they drive like maniacs!
>
> Anyone else have any personal observations on what to look for?
>

Handicapped plates People talking on cellphones to begin with Women with multiple children in car

 

[Mark]

rosco wrote:

>
> In my mind, a better bicycle riding infrastructure could lead to the next boom, or atleast keep
> the sport from dying. In our small town this summer an elderly bicycle enthusiast was mowed over
> and killed on our narrow roads where motor vehicles travel MUCH too fast. We have had a couple of
> fatal car/SUV crashes on these back roads, and a pedestrian was also killed by a car. Frankly, I'm
> afraid to ride a bicycle on many of our roads, and choose my routes carefully (after the events of
> this summer, I decided to always wear a high visibility night-time vest when riding on the roads
> regardless of time of day). In my opinion, more bike lanes and trails would have a huge impact on
> the popularity of the sport.

I was waiting for this one. That is the number one thing keeping me from venturing farther on my
bike. Tampa Bay is usually at the top of the statistics for bike fatalities per capita. I would love
it if there was a network of dedicated bike trails. The main reason people tell me they won't buy a
fuel efficient car is because they are afraid of being killed by a large SUV. I ride on the
sidewalks here. Infrastructure had a big influence on the car boom. It could work the same for
bikes. Some major routes could even be covered to increase use during our rainy season. Mark

 

[Mitch Haley]

Mark wrote:
> I ride on the sidewalks here.

How do you handle intersections?

Mitch

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:09:15 +1000, "Tim Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> It's just a hunch; V8 cars have damn near died here, so I don't imagine a new one coming out.
>> Millions would want one, but nobody would buy one, I'm guessing.
>>
>
>Why is that - fuel? SUVs?

Well, while I would want one, I have other priorities. Other people feel the same way, I'm sure. I
have a truck, which I need for work, and in which I am as comfortable as I can be; I can't afford,
nor do I need, a second new vehicle. People who are buying cars are practical; the less practical
people are buying SUVs. The practical people would likely buy a different car -- cheaper, more
reliable (GM has a bad reputation, not completely undeserved, although I keep buying , more
economical, whatever.

There's not much of a market for brand-new classic V8 muscle cars. "Mid-life-crisis" guys buy them,
and young males with lots of money for liability insurance (rare); and those young males are more
likely to buy rice anyway.

>> > The Monaro is an attractive car.
>http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

Well, it sure is!

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc Jeff Potter <[email protected]> wrote:
: I think the last big bike boom was in the mid-70's. It happened because of:

Around 90's I'd say.

: *cheap light 10speeds hit US shores for 1st time

1. MTBs and hybrids sold everywhere.

: *US bicentennial, with its urge to 'ride across the country' *high gas prices *low-traffic
: backroads

2. Green values
3. Public action to increase cycling
4. More interest in sports and freetime

: What will inspire the next boom?

5. Recumbents sold everywhere (well that's just a wild guess ;p )
6. More and more of factor 3. and 4. above

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:

: $4/gallon gas would go a long way.

How much is it in Japan? Something like $2 per liter? ;p

Some statistics on means of transport could be nice to see, I guess quite a few Japanese opt to walk
and ride the public transport, or maybe get a ride from their motor-vehicle owning friends on the
rare occasions they go some far away place without traffic jams.

Environmentalism seems to be doing ok in Japan. You can see some meetings for non-profit
organizations that have notes like "please note parking slots are in short supply - so consider
leaving your car at home".

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc Marian Rosenberg <[email protected]> wrote:

: I have local acquaintances who don't even bother to own bicycles because they can get everything
: they need within a kilometer of home.

I know some people who consider 5 km an "easy walking distance". These people are clearly
abnormal

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc Andreas Oehler <[email protected]> wrote:
:>having miles and miles of roads that are pleasant to ride on because they are lined with trees
:>(think shade)

: It is not neccessary to ride "miles and miles" because the city is designed to have (nearly)
: everything available in a short distance.

It's utility vs. recreation. In Helsinki there are few nice places for riding, unless you just want
to enjoy the scenery... Riding the quiet or not so quiet country roads just 30 km off is an entirely
different world.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc Buck <[email protected]> wrote:

: You missed the point. Part of being an avid cyclist is the desire to ride miles and miles and
: having nice roads upon which to ride. Riding in the city is a much different, and unpleasant,
: experience.

Suburbs are far from free as well. No way you can find a straight stretch with 1 km or more between
intersections. There's always traffic to watch out for... traffic lights to stop at, and so on...

I'd like tightly built mini-cities - that way you can quickly ride (or drive) out, and enjoy some
real countryside/forest.

:> > and have low speed limits....
:>
:> 30km/h is the speed limit in the quarter here - but you often have to be slower.

: Again, part of the problem. I don't want to be stuck on crowded city streets. I want traffic
: moving about the same speed I can move. It's safer overall. And a bonus in suburbia is the lack of
: pedestrians (yes, it is sad that people aren't outside). I have had more close calls with
: wandering pedestrians than I have had with cars. Take a ride on the streets of your local
: university campus to get a taste of the problem.

I think this is much up to personal preference, but one is often allowed to choose the place of
living, after all. I don't demand universal access as a cyclist - IMO even in Helsinki there would
be some zones which would be better off as pedestrian-only. I think one could build a strong case
for lively downtowns that are made with the pedestrian in view.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Scott Eiler]

In article <[email protected]>, the robotic servitors of Mark
<[email protected]> rose up with the following chant:

>Tampa Bay is usually at the top of the statistics for bike fatalities per capita. I would love it
>if there was a network of dedicated bike trails.

Be careful what you wish for. I ride my bike in the Chicago suburbs, out among the forest preserves
where there are abundant bike trails... and abundant broken glass on same. Of course, the roads
themselves are no better... unless I ride in the car lanes instead of on the nice wide shoulders.
I've been getting flat tires every two months on average - and sometimes twice a month.

That's an issue I'd like to ask bicyclists about, but I'm not sure if it's a technical issue or a
social issue... How do we combat broken glass? All the *technical* solutions I've been offered
have failed.

-------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- http://www.eilertech.com/ --------

"Do not mistake my childlike appearance for innocence of any kind. 'Form of Boy' is well-known as
the most feared battle-shape in Paradise." -- The angel Asmodel, from "JLA: Paradise Lost" scripted
by Mark Millar.

 

[Risto Varanka]

In rec.bicycles.misc Jeff Potter <[email protected]> wrote:
: I'm not sure it has to happen at the expense of cars. They appear to be here to stay. Why can't
: bikes be ADDED to them?

Off course, people could ride for a few years, then go back to cliff climbing or what have you. Not
a bad thing... Maybe this is actually how bike booms happen?

Cars are usually a long term commitment, in the long term the alternatives don't really fit the bill
so one just goes to a different model. Bikes could be that too. Why buy a car for 6000,- when you
can just ride there... takes maybe 30 min extra *this* time... Fill in with public transport or loan
a car from friend if needed. Spend the money on a cosy bike and accessories.

It's a life style thing, a kind of slot which starts feeling more and more self-evident over
the years.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:31:37 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Eiler) may have said:

> I ride my bike in the Chicago suburbs, out among the forest preserves where there are abundant
> bike trails... and abundant broken glass on same. Of course, the roads themselves are no
> better... unless I ride in the car lanes instead of on the nice wide shoulders. I've been getting
> flat tires every two months on average - and sometimes twice a month.
>
>That's an issue I'd like to ask bicyclists about, but I'm not sure if it's a technical issue or a
>social issue... How do we combat broken glass? All the *technical* solutions I've been offered
>have failed.

Whe bike trail and shoulder usage becomes an active interest for enough people, the topic of keeping
those ways cleared of glass (and other sharps) will get the attention of the people who could do
something about it. The process begins with complaining to whoever is presently in charge of
development of alternative transit systems; these are the folks who *should* be planning where the
next batch of trails, dedicated lanes, and bike/train facilities will be located. By pointing out
that they need to bootstrap public confidence in bikes by making them useful on the existing routes
through better maintenance, you can help the whole thing along. By providing specific examples of
where and how the issue is being neglected today, you give them the ammunition to go looking for a
budget with which to fix it. Chances are that they're aware that things are not optimal; you need to
convince them that it's worse than they think, and needs to be addressed.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[-= ®Atzofratzo]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:29:31 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

>Whe bike trail and shoulder usage becomes an active interest for enough people, the topic of
>keeping those ways cleared of glass (and other sharps) will get the attention of the people who
>could do something about it.

On the Pinellas Trail here in St. Pete, they do a wonderful job of keeping the trail free of debris.
I ride about 20 mile section several times a week and I always see crews cleaning, maintaining and
cutting grass. I guess matters enough here that it's maintained well.

__________________
-= ®atzofratzo =-

®emove The fleA to reply

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:38:12 GMT, -= ®atzofratzo =- <[email protected]> may
have said:

>On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:29:31 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Whe bike trail and shoulder usage becomes an active interest for enough people, the topic of
>>keeping those ways cleared of glass (and other sharps) will get the attention of the people who
>>could do something about it.
>
>On the Pinellas Trail here in St. Pete, they do a wonderful job of keeping the trail free of
>debris. I ride about 20 mile section several times a week and I always see crews cleaning,
>maintaining and cutting grass. I guess matters enough here that it's maintained well.

Ditto for the White Oak Bayou trail which runs past me two blocks away here in Houston. In fact, the
city has both a website and a hotline to report trails in need of maintenance, and they seem to pay
attention to reports of glass and such. (Of course, the streets themselves are another matter...)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[J. Bruce Fields]

In article <[email protected]>, Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Tampa Bay is usually at the top of the statistics for bike fatalities per capita. I would love it
>if there was a network of dedicated bike trails.

The problem here of course is that we first need to establish that "a network of dedicated bike
trails" would actually make cyclists safer.

The research that exists is inadequate to tell us how to design safe facilities. In fact, what
research exists suggests that in general bike facilities *decrease* safety:

http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/research.html

The money spent on facilities would be much better spent on trying to understand the problem. It's
pathetic that with all the hand-wringing over bike safety, we're not making the effort to understand
even the most basic questions about bike safety.

--Bruce Fields