what makes a freehub loud?

[Ant]

i pulled apart a freehub today, trying to find and destroy a particularly elusive tick-knock. it was
a non-branded cartridge hub on a reasonably expensive specialized roadbike that freewheeled with
quite a racket.

a fellow mech had a freehub body for this hub lying around, so i switched the pawls and spring from
the hub onto the new(er) body, which looked identical if not slightly less worn. the result fixed
the ticking (i have no idea why), and resulted in a much quieter freewheeling buzz.

was it the freehub body? the new lubricant? why are so many expensive hubs so loud? and how do
people stand it

anthony

 

[S. Anderson]

"ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> i pulled apart a freehub today, trying to find and destroy a particularly elusive tick-knock. it
> was a non-branded cartridge hub on a reasonably expensive specialized roadbike that freewheeled
> with quite a racket.
>
> a fellow mech had a freehub body for this hub lying around, so i switched the pawls and spring
> from the hub onto the new(er) body, which looked identical if not slightly less worn. the result
> fixed the ticking (i have no idea why), and resulted in a much quieter freewheeling buzz.
>
> was it the freehub body? the new lubricant? why are so many expensive hubs so loud? and how do
> people stand it
>
> anthony

The ticking when you freewheel is caused, as you've probably guessed, by the pawls snapping down
onto the low areas from the tops of the ratchet mechanism. Most heavier-duty hubs have stronger
springs and more pawls, which means there's generally more sources of louder noises. Hence, they can
make a bit of a racket. If you lube the pawls, say with grease, they'll be much quieter as the
grease dampens the sound. However, you are more suspceptible to stuck pawls, since the grease will
delay the pawls from popping out into the hub body. The pawls you installed may have had a slightly
different design that may also have made them quieter. Additionally, the springs you used might have
been softer, making the freewheel ever more quiet. It's a trade-off I suppose, depending on what
you're looking for. You could always opt for a clutch-type cassette body, which is generally silent.
However, they cost a bit more and I've heard they have some reliability problems. Personally, I
never hear my freehub making noise..it's just one of those things I seem to mentally cancel
out..unlike those GOD-DAMNED RATTLING SEAT BAGS WITH TOOLS IN THEM!!!! ;-)

Cheers,

Scott..

 

[Kirby James]

I had a freewheel problem that was diagnosed by a blind cyclist (on the back of a tandem).

We were riding along side each other and he said you've got a problem with your freewheel. The
freewheel had two pawls - but one of them was stuck in the open position - so when freewheeling the
'noise' was half the normal frequency .

I was impressed by his diagnostic skills!

Kirby

 

[Ant]

"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The ticking when you freewheel is caused, as you've probably guessed, by the pawls snapping down
> onto the low areas from the tops of the ratchet mechanism. Most heavier-duty hubs have stronger
> springs and more pawls, which means there's generally more sources of louder noises. Hence, they
> can make a bit of a racket. If you lube the pawls, say with grease, they'll be much quieter as the
> grease dampens the sound. However, you are more suspceptible to stuck pawls, since the grease will
> delay the pawls from popping out into the hub body. The pawls you installed may have had a
> slightly different design that may also have made them quieter. Additionally, the springs you used
> might have been softer, making the freewheel ever more quiet. It's a trade-off I suppose,
> depending on what you're looking for. You could always opt for a clutch-type cassette body, which
> is generally silent. However, they cost a bit more and I've heard they have some reliability
> problems. Personally, I never hear my freehub making noise..it's just one of those things I seem
> to mentally cancel out..unlike those GOD-DAMNED RATTLING SEAT BAGS WITH TOOLS IN THEM!!!! ;-)

good thoughts. i shoulder clarify the situation. i took the free hub body, springs, and pawls apart,
and moved the pawls and spring onto the newer freehub body, seemingly identical, which had no pawls
and spring. the decrease in noise, i now hypothesize, is most likely due to me using a thicker
grease than used to be in there, or perhaps the absence of much grease (or is it heavy oil?) in the
old freehub. thoguhts?

i was aware that there are special lubes for this application, but dont have them. i chose a white
grease which was less thick than the normal auto/Park grease, and the pawls seem to be humming along
nicely. is this freehub a ticking timebomb? (pun intended). how important is the 'right' lube if it
seems to be working like clockwork (semipun. ok, it sucked. but dont get ticked off)

anthony

 

[S. Anderson]

"ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> good thoughts. i shoulder clarify the situation. i took the free hub body, springs, and pawls
> apart, and moved the pawls and spring onto the newer freehub body, seemingly identical, which had
> no pawls and spring. the decrease in noise, i now hypothesize, is most likely due to me using a
> thicker grease than used to be in there, or perhaps the absence of much grease (or is it heavy
> oil?) in the old freehub. thoguhts?
>
> i was aware that there are special lubes for this application, but dont have them. i chose a white
> grease which was less thick than the normal auto/Park grease, and the pawls seem to be humming
> along nicely. is this freehub a ticking timebomb? (pun intended). how important is the 'right'
> lube if it seems to be working like clockwork (semipun. ok, it sucked. but dont get ticked off)
>
> anthony

Personally, I don't like getting grease on the pawls at all. Sometimes, over time, grease tends to
dry out and get sticky, particularly some cheaper white lithium grease types. So yeah, it could be a
timebomb in a sense. Maybe one day, one pawl will stick, the other will be forced to take the entire
load and it might break. Or both might stick and you'll get a real freewheel!! The tendency is to
grease the freehub because of all the ball bearings in there. Usually, I grease it to assemble then
wash all the grease out and I then use a spray teflon lube or plain old oil to lube the bearings and
pawls after it's assembled. The freehub bearings are only in use while coasting and there is little
load on them while pedalling, the pawls take most of it. So there's no real need to grease the
bearings. In fact, most freehubs that I've had to replace are primarily as a result of pawl
breakage. I've never seen a freehub with destoyed bearings. I know people who specifically grease
their freehubs because they find the ticking annoying, but I don't really like that approach. I have
seen pawls stick because of grease so I advise everyone to not do it unless they've experiemented
with it in the past and had success. The disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Especially when
you're in a commercial setting like I was for so many years..you really can't afford to have a minor
screw-up on something like that, so we always erred on the side of caution.

Cheers,

Scott..

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, ant
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>good thoughts. i shoulder clarify the situation. i took the free hub body, springs, and pawls
>apart, and moved the pawls and spring onto the newer freehub body, seemingly identical, which had
>no pawls and spring. the decrease in noise, i now hypothesize, is most likely due to me using a
>thicker grease than used to be in there, or perhaps the absence of much grease (or is it heavy
>oil?) in the old freehub. thoguhts?

Yes.

>i was aware that there are special lubes for this application, but dont have them. i chose a white
>grease which was less thick than the normal auto/Park grease, and the pawls seem to be humming
>along nicely. is this freehub a ticking timebomb? (pun intended). how important is the 'right' lube
>if it seems to be working like clockwork (semipun. ok, it sucked. but dont get ticked off)

As long as the lube is light enough and does not harden too much before you overhaul it again,
everything will be OK. If the grease is or becomes too sticky, a pawl will stay in the depressed
position when the spring should be pushing it out. This will cause the pawl to fail to engage. That
increases the pressure on the remaining pawls. When you don't have enough pawls active, you risk
breaking free, which is very hazardous, very like breaking a chain when you stomp on the pedals.
Watch the 2002 Giro and Tyler Hamilton will demonstrate.

I often use Phil Wood grease thinned with motor oil - it mixes well and doesn't have
hardening problems.

--Paul

 

[Ant]

[email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message
>

> I often use Phil Wood grease thinned with motor oil - it mixes well and doesn't have hardening
> problems.

thanks for the posts, everyone. this last bit makes me feel pretty good. i used just enough
lightweight namebrand grease to hold things together, and a lot of 10w-30, so i figure i may have
guessed my way onto the right track.

cheers, anthony

 

[Chsb]

Kirby James wrote:

> I had a freewheel problem that was diagnosed by a blind cyclist (on the back of a tandem).
>
> We were riding along side each other and he said you've got a problem with your freewheel. The
> freewheel had two pawls - but one of them was stuck in the open position - so when freewheeling
> the 'noise' was half the normal frequency .
>
> I was impressed by his diagnostic skills!
>
> Kirby

heheheh, clever, but I'm just a dummy........charles

 

[Rb]

Good work, Anthony. I have a Rolf Vector Pro with a VERY LOUD chattering Hugi freehub. I just could
not figure out how to get the freehub apart. There's a PDF file at the Hugi web site describing how
to do it with some specialized tools, but in the end I took the wheel to a local shop with
experience on these wheels. They relubed the freehub and really quieted it down. For 14 bucks it was
well worth
it. The mechanic says centrifugal force will eventually pull the grease out. I hope this
information may help someone else with these wheels.

i.u.

[email protected] (ant) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message
> >
>
> > I often use Phil Wood grease thinned with motor oil - it mixes well and doesn't have hardening
> > problems.
>
>
> thanks for the posts, everyone. this last bit makes me feel pretty good. i used just enough
> lightweight namebrand grease to hold things together, and a lot of 10w-30, so i figure i may have
> guessed my way onto the right track.
>
> cheers, anthony

 

[Werehatrack]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:21:13 -0400, "S. Anderson" <[email protected]> may have said:

>Personally, I never hear my freehub making noise..it's just one of those things I seem to mentally
>cancel out..unlike those GOD-DAMNED RATTLING SEAT BAGS WITH TOOLS IN THEM!!!! ;-)

A strip of carpet padding and a couple of pieces of string can make a world of quiet there...

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[Werehatrack]

On 18 Jul 2003 20:53:45 -0700, [email protected] (ant) may have said:

>good thoughts. i shoulder clarify the situation. i took the free hub body, springs, and pawls
>apart, and moved the pawls and spring onto the newer freehub body, seemingly identical, which had
>no pawls and spring. the decrease in noise, i now hypothesize, is most likely due to me using a
>thicker grease than used to be in there, or perhaps the absence of much grease (or is it heavy
>oil?) in the old freehub. thoguhts?

The lube may have made all the difference, or it's possible that there's a slight difference in the
shaping of the teeth with which the pawls engage inside the hub; I've seem similar issues with other
types of mechanism.

>i was aware that there are special lubes for this application, but dont have them. i chose a white
>grease which was less thick than the normal auto/Park grease, and the pawls seem to be humming
>along nicely. is this freehub a ticking timebomb? (pun intended). how important is the 'right' lube
>if it seems to be working like clockwork (semipun. ok, it sucked. but dont get ticked off)

White lithium grease will probably work OK in the heat of summer, but there is a small chance that
you may find yourself with a bidirectional freewheel as soon as the temps drop off in the fall. I
have a mass-market MTB that I picked up for the handsome sum of $5 because the ratcheting shifters
"didn't work anymore". All that was wrong with them was that they were lubed with white lith...and
it was December. Cleaned and re-oiled with a lightweight synthetic oil, they performed perfectly. I
wouldn't recommend taking your assembly back apart as long as it keeps working OK, though. There is
*wide* variation in the characteristics of white lith greases, and the one you used might very well
work perfectly all winter. On the other hand, if it congeals and fouls up, now you have less reason
to panic since you won't need to assume that it's a major failure.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[Ant]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > was it the freehub body? the new lubricant? why are so many expensive hubs so loud? and how do
> > people stand it
>
> Don't coast. Seriously.

ha! every single one of my bikes is fixed gear, except for a SS offroad beater. the hub in question
was not mine, in fact, and my experiences with other loud hubs were never mine either.

i coudlnt agree more.