What muscles ache

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by DaveB, Oct 8, 2004.

  1. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which
    have been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out
    what's going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have
    calves and hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently
    tight. But the quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or
    runs, on the flat or on the hills. She was thinking it's a
    posture/pelvic position problem which I assumed is caused by running,
    but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling as well. So my question is,
    after you've been for a long ride what leg muscles hurt? And does it
    make a difference if you've been climbing?

    DaveB
     
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  2. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    I don't know about climbing, but cycling tends to tighten the hamstrings - you need to include stretching sessions as an important part of your training. I always feel better when I'm stretching regularly.

    Ritch
     
  3. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    cant say i ever actually get pain as such after riding. plenty going up hills, but little after.
    I feel wobbly/tired walking DOWN stairs afterwards if its been a long/hard ride
    (comical scenes years ago when i rode up to Cradle Mountain, hiked up. ate lunch then proceeded to walk down and found legs were having problems 'locking' the knees back. Almost sprinted/fell the whole way down...).

    Could you perhaps be iding with feet pointed 'down' rather than keeping he heel down? Shall check you out on next BR youare on...
     
  4. Dej

    Dej Guest

    "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which have
    >been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out what's
    >going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have calves and
    >hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently tight. But the
    >quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or runs, on the flat or
    >on the hills. She was thinking it's a posture/pelvic position problem which
    >I assumed is caused by running, but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling
    >as well. So my question is, after you've been for a long ride what leg
    >muscles hurt? And does it make a difference if you've been climbing?
    >
    > DaveB
    >

    after hard riding i find my quads burn when walking upstairs at work for a
    few days after the ride.
    the hamstrings do get tight but never really sore, calves rarely get sore as
    well.
    i only get sore calves when i run, which lately has been rarely:(
     
  5. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which
    > have been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out
    > what's going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have
    > calves and hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently
    > tight. But the quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or
    > runs, on the flat or on the hills. She was thinking it's a
    > posture/pelvic position problem which I assumed is caused by running,
    > but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling as well. So my question is,
    > after you've been for a long ride what leg muscles hurt? And does it
    > make a difference if you've been climbing?


    I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
    I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
    a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
    The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
    doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!
    My leg muscles are only sore (not tired/sore, sore/sore) if
    I've done something 'outside the square I cycle in' like
    overdoing high cadence drills.. I've strained hip-flexors
    doing those.. and I still can't crack 200bpm on the Polar!
    198bpm is pretty close though.
    I might visit a physio or massuer or something for back
    and neck and then start stretching again.

    hippy
     
  6. Jhikers

    Jhikers New Member

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    If you exercise then your muscles will tighten, and tighten, and tighten.
    Massage is the way to loosen them and stretching will put length back into them. 'feeling permanently tight' - looks like you need a good session of DEEP tissue massage. If you are training most days I recommend a massage once a week... 100%.

    If you feel you are using your hamstrings too much and no quads - check your saddle position. Moving the seat back brings in the hamstrings and forward will engage the quads more.

    Cycling will always affect the hamstrings - but it is possible to 'switch off' the calves if you concentrate on relaxing them and using your quads as the powerhouse.
     
  7. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:

    > I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
    > I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
    > a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
    > The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
    > doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!

    <snip>
    > hippy


    Bad, bad, hippy.

    No tofu for you.
     
  8. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote
    > hippy wrote:
    >
    > > I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
    > > I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
    > > a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
    > > The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
    > > doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!

    >
    > Bad, bad, hippy.
    > No tofu for you.


    So I can have the steak instead?

    I went to the physio yesterday. He massaged my kneck
    and zapped it with the ultrasound. There was actually no
    pain at all which I'm putting down to the 30degC weather.
    I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
    glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
    I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..

    hippy
     
  9. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:
    >
    > "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >
    > > Bad, bad, hippy.
    > > No tofu for you.

    >
    > So I can have the steak instead?
    >

    Nope, I ate it already. You stick with that physio and those stretches
    and I might give you some steak later.

    T
     
  10. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote
    > hippy wrote:
    > >
    > > "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote
    > > > Bad, bad, hippy.
    > > > No tofu for you.

    > >
    > > So I can have the steak instead?
    > >

    > Nope, I ate it already. You stick with that physio and those stretches
    > and I might give you some steak later.


    Promise? I stretched last night and this
    morning - does that maybe get me a small
    piece? ;-)

    I'll get another neck rub from the physio on
    Friday as well as collecting some printouts
    detailing the stretches I asked about. The
    tricky part is remembering to do them.

    hippy
     
  11. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    hippy wrote:

    > I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
    > glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
    > I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..
    >
    > hippy
    >
    >


    What did you get in the way of hamstring stretches? Is it something you
    can explain in a post or do we need to cover a stretching program in the
    next BR. My favourite hamstring stretch at the moment is to lie in a
    doorway and put one leg at a time up on the doorframe, pushing against
    the frame, and then each stretch moving a bit closer to the frame. Now
    that the half marathon is over I've got a deep tissue massgae happening
    tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to. Hopefully I'll be in good
    shape for Sunday.

    DaveB
     
  12. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > hippy wrote:
    > > I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
    > > glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
    > > I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..

    >
    > What did you get in the way of hamstring stretches? Is it something you
    > can explain in a post or do we need to cover a stretching program in the
    > next BR. My favourite hamstring stretch at the moment is to lie in a
    > doorway and put one leg at a time up on the doorframe, pushing against
    > the frame, and then each stretch moving a bit closer to the frame. Now
    > that the half marathon is over I've got a deep tissue massgae happening
    > tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to. Hopefully I'll be in good
    > shape for Sunday.


    All these people getting massages.. I'm missing out..

    Currently I have a kneeling stretch and a sitting one
    for hammies. Kneel on one leg, put other one in front,
    slightly bent at knee. Lean forward with straight back.
    Depending on how bent the knee is, the stretch will
    move up and down the straighter leg.
    The other one involves sitting down with legs out
    front, knees slightly bent, straight back, lean forward
    and grab toes.
    The physio showed me some different ones, which I
    of course forgot totally.. but hopefully the sheets will
    explain them better. I think one was the same as my
    kneeling version but done standing up with the straight
    leg resting on a bench.

    hippy
     
  13. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:
    >

    <snip>
    >
    > Currently I have a kneeling stretch and a sitting one
    > for hammies. Kneel on one leg, put other one in front,
    > slightly bent at knee. Lean forward with straight back.
    > Depending on how bent the knee is, the stretch will
    > move up and down the straighter leg.
    > The other one involves sitting down with legs out
    > front, knees slightly bent, straight back, lean forward
    > and grab toes.
    > The physio showed me some different ones, which I
    > of course forgot totally.. but hopefully the sheets will
    > explain them better. I think one was the same as my
    > kneeling version but done standing up with the straight
    > leg resting on a bench.
    >
    > hippy


    Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.

    T

    Okay, another good one is lie on your back with one leg flat on the
    floor, bring the other knee up and hug it towards your chest or shoulder
    but only bring it as far as you can without the hips tilting. Then pull
    the knee across to the other shoulder, for a glute stretch. Then repeat
    the first stretch but attempt to straighten your leg using your quads,
    and flex and point your foot several times; bend your knee a little
    closer to your chest, then try to straighten the leg, and wriggle the
    foot again. If you're hardcore you can do this second exercise with the
    leg going over towards the opposite shoulder again but it really hurts.
     
  14. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.


    Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :p

    > Okay, another good one is lie on your back with one leg flat on the
    > floor, bring the other knee up and hug it towards your chest or shoulder
    > but only bring it as far as you can without the hips tilting. Then pull


    This sounds like one of the ones I forgot..

    > the knee across to the other shoulder, for a glute stretch. Then repeat
    > the first stretch but attempt to straighten your leg using your quads,
    > and flex and point your foot several times; bend your knee a little
    > closer to your chest, then try to straighten the leg, and wriggle the
    > foot again. If you're hardcore you can do this second exercise with the
    > leg going over towards the opposite shoulder again but it really hurts.


    I remember him saying something like "activating the opposite muscle
    forces the body to relax the muscle you are trying to stretch". So, by
    flexing the quad with the 'leg in the air stretch' you can stretch the
    hamstring more effectively..

    Isn't it enough that I spend hours on the bike? No. I have to
    eat high GI after exercise and low GI everywhere else, drink
    enough but not too much, stretch all kinds of things and get
    enough sleep.. blah.. blah.. ;-)

    hippy
    "ride, beer, sleep.."
     
  15. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:
    >
    > "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.

    >
    > Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :p


    Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
    Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.

    <snip>

    > I remember him saying something like "activating the opposite muscle
    > forces the body to relax the muscle you are trying to stretch". So, by
    > flexing the quad with the 'leg in the air stretch' you can stretch the
    > hamstring more effectively..
    >

    <snip>

    Also, you can use PNF stretching. This stands for proprioceptive
    neuromuscular facilitation, which is a term no one understands. But it
    means that you resist the stretch and then relax into it further, for
    example if you were doing a hamstring stretch pulling at your leg with
    your hand, you would push back with your leg for a few seconds, and then
    relax.

    T
     
  16. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]uq.edu.au> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > hippy wrote:
    > > Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :p

    >
    > Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
    > Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.


    Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(

    Are you the one in the air or part of the landing mat? :)
    http://www.brisbanepowerhouse.org/content/?id=49

    > Also, you can use PNF stretching. This stands for proprioceptive
    > neuromuscular facilitation, which is a term no one understands.


    I have _no_ idea why... looks like a couple of words were
    cut and pasted together when someone wrote their thesis. ;)

    Wait.. it does exist..
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proprioceptive
    Uh.. huh.. <backs away slowly>

    > But it
    > means that you resist the stretch and then relax into it further, for
    > example if you were doing a hamstring stretch pulling at your leg with
    > your hand, you would push back with your leg for a few seconds, and then
    > relax.


    Okay so it's a few big words for "resist then relax". I think I get it.
    What's the difference between using this method and the vanilla
    flavoured "stretch and hold" method?

    hippy
     
  17. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:
    >
    > "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > hippy wrote:
    > > > Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :p

    > >
    > > Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
    > > Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.

    >
    > Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(


    Not a chance.

    >
    > Are you the one in the air or part of the landing mat? :)
    > http://www.brisbanepowerhouse.org/content/?id=49


    Hmmm, wasn't there that day. Looks like they got a pro to do the dive.
    Damn shame they always use amateurs when I'm the mat.

    <snip>
    > Okay so it's a few big words for "resist then relax". I think I get it.
    > What's the difference between using this method and the vanilla
    > flavoured "stretch and hold" method?
    >


    Basic concept is something like this I think:

    stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
    so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
    TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
    tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)

    did that make ANY sense?

    T
     
  18. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]
    > > Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(

    >
    > Not a chance.


    Flexible Spoilsport! :)

    > Basic concept is something like this I think:
    > stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
    > so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
    > TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
    > tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)
    >
    > did that make ANY sense?


    It did, but I think it's too much trouble for someone who
    forgets to do vanilla stretches anyway. Is there much benefit
    though, in investing the extra time in this style stretching?
    I'm finding it hard enough doing the kays, let alone work, live
    and stretch - which I did this morning - got any steak?

    hippy
     
  19. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    hippy wrote:
    >
    > "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]
    >

    <snip>
    > > Basic concept is something like this I think:
    > > stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
    > > so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
    > > TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
    > > tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)
    > >
    > > did that make ANY sense?

    >
    > It did, but I think it's too much trouble for someone who
    > forgets to do vanilla stretches anyway. Is there much benefit
    > though, in investing the extra time in this style stretching?
    > I'm finding it hard enough doing the kays, let alone work, live
    > and stretch - which I did this morning - got any steak?


    Hey, good on you! No steak though.

    PNF stretching is awesome, it's actually quicker than holding a stretch
    because you get further faster - you only need to "push" for a few
    seconds to notice the difference.

    Personally, I do dynamic stretches (gently, not ballistically) when I
    get up in the morning, helps massively with lubricating joints and
    getting muscles to stretch rather than just ligaments.

    T
     
  20. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote
    > Hey, good on you! No steak though.


    I give up! I'm going vego again.. :p

    > PNF stretching is awesome, it's actually quicker than holding a stretch
    > because you get further faster - you only need to "push" for a few
    > seconds to notice the difference.


    I'll see what the physio gives me today and maybe
    adapt some to PNF. "1 hippopotamus 2 hippopotamus ... ...
    30 hippopotamus ahhh"

    > Personally, I do dynamic stretches (gently, not ballistically) when I
    > get up in the morning, helps massively with lubricating joints and
    > getting muscles to stretch rather than just ligaments.


    I always had trouble with overdoing stretches "cold" before
    a run (when I used to attempt to run) so I stopped and
    found that doing them afterwards with warmed muscles
    was less risky. Could I achieve the same thing by doing
    'normal' stretches? I'd just make sure I didn't push it too
    far..

    hippy
     
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