What Passes for Communication, among Mountain Bikers



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Mike Vandeman

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At 02:36 PM 2/21/03 -0600, Scott G. wrote: Bedwetter.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
sci.environment,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,alt.mountain -bike Sent: Saturday,
February 22, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Mountain Bike Damage in Pleasanton Ridge Regional Park --
Three Years Later

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:33:15 GMT, "GSL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike, . .I have co-founded a mountain bike club here in Florida, and about
one-third
> .of the members are environmentalists.
>
> Wrong. NO real environmentalists (as opposed to environmental rapists masquerading as
> "environmentalists") mountain bike.
>
> I also hike and run on the trail. . .Non-motorized access to nature should be promoted.
>
> BS. It destrous wildlife and wildlife habitat.
>
> It is well documented .that equestrians, off-road cyclists, and yes, hikers, all have an impact
on
> .nature. You know this, I know this, and fortunately so do most park .managers. . .You really
> should consider directing your energy toward the cross-country .motocross and ATV invasion. The
> current administration is
pro-hydrocarbon
> .recreation. We should all be aware of this trend and do what we can to
stop
> .it as they are the true destroyers of the trail.
>
> What are you doing about it? When the land managers find out that you are
a
> mountain biker, ripping up the land with knobby tires, they will know you
are
> nothing but a hypocrite, and won't listen.
>
> .Where I ride, I am having to stop and pick up bottled water jugs left by .hikers on a weekly
> basis. The equestrians cause major erosion and leave .heaping piles of feces everywhere. Off-road
> cyclists skid into corners
and
> .loosen the trail. Do I get upset? A little.
>
> But not about your OWN destruction.
>
> .But then I remind myself that when more people share a resource, such as
a
> .state park, the more likely we are all going to benefit from it. We
should
> .all be joining forces, and working toward expansion, access, and
protection
> .of public lands - - not against one another.
>
> If you would think about the wildlife for ONE SECOND, you would know what
BS
> this is: wildlife don't appreciate the presence of humans!
>
> .Consider this thought, stop hating, and start hiking & enjoying your
life.
>
> I hate the destruction of nature, as EVERY responsible person should.
>
> .Scott G. .www.porc.org . . . . . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]... .> February 18, 2003 .> .> Board of Directors
> .> East Bay Regional Park District .> 2950 Peralta Oaks Court .> P.O. Box 5381 .> Oakland,
> California 94605-0381 .> .> Re: Mountain Biking in Pleasanton Ridge Regional Park -- .> Three
> Years Later .> .> Gentlepersons: .> .> I heard that mountain bikers will be doing trail .>
> maintenance on the Sinbad Creek Trail next Saturday, just .> as they did three years ago. So
> naturally I wanted to see .> why this has become necessary. Last Sunday I hiked that .> trail
> again. I was pleased to see that many of the illegal .> trails I reported to you three years ago
> have been marked .> "closed", and are in the process of being revegetated. The .> signs also warn
> the mountain bikers that if they fail to .> obey the rules, mountain biking could be banned from
> the .> park. Of course, they already knew that, and have known it .> for a long time. But who
> cares about rules, when you're .> having fun (and no rangers are in sight)? .> .> As you will
> recall from my March 27, 2000 letter, .> mountain bikers were crisscrossing the park with illegal
> .> trails, riding off-trail, riding during wet conditions, .> riding through the creeks, and
> creating deep U- or V-shaped .> grooves that make the trails difficult and dangerous to .> walk
> on. Nothing has changed! I photographed tire tracks .> ____________________ .> through the grass
> away from the trail, through a pile of .> gravel you imported to "improve" the trail, and through
> the .> creeks. (It may be a while before I can send you the .> photos, since I am only halfway
> through that roll.) It had .> rained the previous night, and there were long skid marks .> in the
> woods near the Shady Creek Trail. .> .> Hiker-only trails (such as the Chaparral Trail in .>
> Augustin Bernal City Park) are flat, and easy to walk on! .> ____ .> Most of the Sinbad Creek
> Trail (particularly its narrow, .> "singletrack" section) is so badly rutted by the bikers, .>
> that it is very difficult to walk on. Not only hikers, but .> even bikers are forced to go
> off-trail. None of it is flat. .> ____ .> .> .> In one section I noticed that you brought in a
> bunch .> of large, exotic rocks to try to keep the bikers in the .> trail. They stand out like a
> sore thumb, since they look .> like no other rocks in the park. You also imbedded a .> plastic
> matrix in that section of trail in a vain attempt .> to keep it from being damaged, and covered it
> with exotic .> gravel. Just as I predicted, all of the gravel covering the .> plastic has been
> eroded away, and the plastic itself is .> starting to wear away, polluting an otherwise natural
> park .> with particles of plastic! .> .> Also, as I predicted, few people like walking or .>
> riding on plastic, so they are starting to go around it, .> causing further erosion. And the
> plastic must be .> dangerously slippery, when wet! In one place, the plastic .> has even sunk and
> tilted, making it impossible to ride or .> walk on it. .> .> Near that section of the trail, I met
> a girl walking a .> dog. She didn't have a map, so I gave her mine. When I .> mentioned all the
> damage done by the bikers, she said "I .> can't get too mad, because I like to mountain bike,
> too". .> This is typical of mountain bikers: deny, deny, deny. Never .> "rat" on your fellow
> bikers. That is called "the Code of .> the Streets": criminals aren't supposed to tell on each .>
> other. If mountain biking is harming the park, just look .> the other way. Pretend that it is not
> a problem. Well, this .> attitude seems to have taken hold among Park District .> personnel, as
> well. Instead of admitting that bicycles are .> incompatible with the protection of the parks'
> resources, .> they pretend that the trail just isn't built well enough! .> .> Well, you are right!
> Until the trail is paved, it will .> _____ .> continue to deteriorate and need constant repairing.
> That .> is exactly why Yosemite National Park has insisted that .> bikes stick to pavement. You
> should do the same! .> .> Another hiker I met said that he thought that the .> bikers should have
> separate trails, since their presence on .> the fire roads makes it very unpleasant and scary to
> hike .> there. But that is no solution: either you have to build .> many new trails for the
> bikers, destroying a lot more .> wildlife habitat (and the impact of people extends far from .>
> the trail!), or you have to take some trails away from the .> majority (hikers) and give them to a
> small minority .> (bikers), which is not fair to the hikers. Besides, have .> you noticed?:
> mountain bikers are never satisfied, no .> matter how many trails they have! .> .> When are you
> going to face the truth?: bicycles and .> other vehicles belong on paved roads, as is the rule in
> .> Yosemite National Park! How many years do we have to wait, .> _____ .> before you admit that
> "education", as a way of taming .> mountain bikers, simply doesn't work?! .> ___________________
> .> .> .> Sincerely, .> .> Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. .> [email protected] .>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
> off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting
> auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:58:18 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

.At 02:36 PM 2/21/03 -0600, Scott G. wrote: .Bedwetter. . . .----- Original Message ----- .From:
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> .Newsgroups:
.sci.environment,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,alt.mountain .-bike .Sent:
Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:34 AM .Subject: Re: Mountain Bike Damage in Pleasanton Ridge Regional
Park -- Three .Years Later . . .> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:33:15 GMT, "GSL" <[email protected]>
wrote: .> .> .Mike, .> . .> .I have co-founded a mountain bike club here in Florida, and about
.one-third .> .of the members are environmentalists. .> .> Wrong. NO real environmentalists (as
opposed to environmental rapists .> masquerading as "environmentalists") mountain bike. .> .> I also
hike and run on the trail. .> . .> .Non-motorized access to nature should be promoted. .> .> BS. It
destrous wildlife and wildlife habitat. .> .> It is well documented .> .that equestrians, off-road
cyclists, and yes, hikers, all have an impact .on .> .nature. You know this, I know this, and
fortunately so do most park .> .managers. .> . .> .You really should consider directing your energy
toward the cross-country .> .motocross and ATV invasion. The current administration is
.pro-hydrocarbon .> .recreation. We should all be aware of this trend and do what we can to .stop .>
.it as they are the true destroyers of the trail. .> .> What are you doing about it? When the land
managers find out that you are .a .> mountain biker, ripping up the land with knobby tires, they
will know you .are .> nothing but a hypocrite, and won't listen. .> .> .Where I ride, I am having to
stop and pick up bottled water jugs left by .> .hikers on a weekly basis. The equestrians cause
major erosion and leave .> .heaping piles of feces everywhere. Off-road cyclists skid into corners
.and .> .loosen the trail. Do I get upset? A little. .> .> But not about your OWN destruction. .> .>
.But then I remind myself that when more people share a resource, such as .a .> .state park, the
more likely we are all going to benefit from it. We .should .> .all be joining forces, and working
toward expansion, access, and .protection .> .of public lands - - not against one another. .> .> If
you would think about the wildlife for ONE SECOND, you would know what .BS .> this is: wildlife
don't appreciate the presence of humans! .> .> .Consider this thought, stop hating, and start hiking
& enjoying your .life. .> .> I hate the destruction of nature, as EVERY responsible person should.
.> .> .Scott G. .> .www.porc.org .> . .> . .> . .> . .> . .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]>
wrote in message .> .news:[email protected]... .> .> February 18, 2003 .>
.> .> .> Board of Directors .> .> East Bay Regional Park District .> .> 2950 Peralta Oaks Court .>
.> P.O. Box 5381 .> .> Oakland, California 94605-0381 .> .> .> .> Re: Mountain Biking in Pleasanton
Ridge Regional Park -- .> .> Three Years Later .> .> .> .> Gentlepersons: .> .> .> .> I heard that
mountain bikers will be doing trail .> .> maintenance on the Sinbad Creek Trail next Saturday, just
.> .> as they did three years ago. So naturally I wanted to see .> .> why this has become necessary.
Last Sunday I hiked that .> .> trail again. I was pleased to see that many of the illegal .> .>
trails I reported to you three years ago have been marked .> .> "closed", and are in the process of
being revegetated. The .> .> signs also warn the mountain bikers that if they fail to .> .> obey the
rules, mountain biking could be banned from the .> .> park. Of course, they already knew that, and
have known it .> .> for a long time. But who cares about rules, when you're .> .> having fun (and no
rangers are in sight)? .> .> .> .> As you will recall from my March 27, 2000 letter, .> .> mountain
bikers were crisscrossing the park with illegal .> .> trails, riding off-trail, riding during wet
conditions, .> .> riding through the creeks, and creating deep U- or V-shaped .> .> grooves that
make the trails difficult and dangerous to .> .> walk on. Nothing has changed! I photographed tire
tracks .> .> ____________________ .> .> through the grass away from the trail, through a pile of .>
.> gravel you imported to "improve" the trail, and through the .> .> creeks. (It may be a while
before I can send you the .> .> photos, since I am only halfway through that roll.) It had .> .>
rained the previous night, and there were long skid marks .> .> in the woods near the Shady Creek
Trail. .> .> .> .> Hiker-only trails (such as the Chaparral Trail in .> .> Augustin Bernal City
Park) are flat, and easy to walk on! .> .> ____ .> .> Most of the Sinbad Creek Trail (particularly
its narrow, .> .> "singletrack" section) is so badly rutted by the bikers, .> .> that it is very
difficult to walk on. Not only hikers, but .> .> even bikers are forced to go off-trail. None of it
is flat. .> .> ____ .> .> .> .> .> .> In one section I noticed that you brought in a bunch .> .> of
large, exotic rocks to try to keep the bikers in the .> .> trail. They stand out like a sore thumb,
since they look .> .> like no other rocks in the park. You also imbedded a .> .> plastic matrix in
that section of trail in a vain attempt .> .> to keep it from being damaged, and covered it with
exotic .> .> gravel. Just as I predicted, all of the gravel covering the .> .> plastic has been
eroded away, and the plastic itself is .> .> starting to wear away, polluting an otherwise natural
park .> .> with particles of plastic! .> .> .> .> Also, as I predicted, few people like walking or
.> .> riding on plastic, so they are starting to go around it, .> .> causing further erosion. And
the plastic must be .> .> dangerously slippery, when wet! In one place, the plastic .> .> has even
sunk and tilted, making it impossible to ride or .> .> walk on it. .> .> .> .> Near that section of
the trail, I met a girl walking a .> .> dog. She didn't have a map, so I gave her mine. When I .> .>
mentioned all the damage done by the bikers, she said "I .> .> can't get too mad, because I like to
mountain bike, too". .> .> This is typical of mountain bikers: deny, deny, deny. Never .> .> "rat"
on your fellow bikers. That is called "the Code of .> .> the Streets": criminals aren't supposed to
tell on each .> .> other. If mountain biking is harming the park, just look .> .> the other way.
Pretend that it is not a problem. Well, this .> .> attitude seems to have taken hold among Park
District .> .> personnel, as well. Instead of admitting that bicycles are .> .> incompatible with
the protection of the parks' resources, .> .> they pretend that the trail just isn't built well
enough! .> .> .> .> Well, you are right! Until the trail is paved, it will .> .> _____ .> .>
continue to deteriorate and need constant repairing. That .> .> is exactly why Yosemite National
Park has insisted that .> .> bikes stick to pavement. You should do the same! .> .> .> .> Another
hiker I met said that he thought that the .> .> bikers should have separate trails, since their
presence on .> .> the fire roads makes it very unpleasant and scary to hike .> .> there. But that is
no solution: either you have to build .> .> many new trails for the bikers, destroying a lot more .>
.> wildlife habitat (and the impact of people extends far from .> .> the trail!), or you have to
take some trails away from the .> .> majority (hikers) and give them to a small minority .> .>
(bikers), which is not fair to the hikers. Besides, have .> .> you noticed?: mountain bikers are
never satisfied, no .> .> matter how many trails they have! .> .> .> .> When are you going to face
the truth?: bicycles and .> .> other vehicles belong on paved roads, as is the rule in .> .>
Yosemite National Park! How many years do we have to wait, .> .> _____ .> .> before you admit that
"education", as a way of taming .> .> mountain bikers, simply doesn't work?! .> .>
___________________ .> .> .> .> .> .> Sincerely, .> .> .> .> Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. .> .>
[email protected] .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .> .> .> === .> .> I am working on
creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I
spent the previous 8 .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> .> .>
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> . .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .=== .I am working
on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 .years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .
.http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike, you're a GENIUS!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:58:18 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: 1,600 words of
untrimmed reply with his usual non-standard quote delimiter and no actual content. Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> At 02:36 PM 2/21/03 -0600, Scott G. wrote: Bedwetter.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
> sci.environment,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,alt.mou ntain -bike Sent:
> Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Mountain Bike Damage in Pleasanton Ridge Regional
> Park -- Three Years Later
>
>
>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:33:15 GMT, "GSL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> .Mike, . .I have co-founded a mountain bike club here in Florida, and about
> one-third
>> .of the members are environmentalists.
>>
>> Wrong. NO real environmentalists (as opposed to environmental rapists masquerading as
>> "environmentalists") mountain bike.
>>
>> I also hike and run on the trail. . .Non-motorized access to nature should be promoted.
>>
>> BS. It destrous wildlife and wildlife habitat.
>>
>> It is well documented .that equestrians, off-road cyclists, and yes, hikers, all have an impact
> on
>> .nature.

Did you know wild animals also cause a lot of damage to nature? They dig holes, **** all over the
place, tear up trees and all kinds of other horrible things. Maybe we should go out and kill all the
wild animals to help save nature.
 
Mikey,

I for one find animals rights activist extremely annoying. Have you ever had a furry woodland
creature just sit there and stare at you? Kind of Pisses you off doesn't it?! I find it hard to
concentrate on tearing up any pristine mountain trails, when I'm riding along scratching my nuts.
It's hard work trying to find a decent short cut though those damned groomed, and marked trails.
Although, I don't get too upset if if a horse or dog was to take a dump in the middle of one. I
just add my own logs to the steaming pile of filth. -Screw those hippy save the world activist. I
hope they step in it! I don't get much of a chance to get out biking much these days, as my SUV
only gets 10 mpg and it's a long drive up to the nearest trail. I guess I'll just stay home and
watch cable....

X
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:58:18 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: 1,600 words of
> untrimmed reply with his usual non-standard quote delimiter and no actual content. Guy
> ===
> ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
> dynamic DNS permitting)
> NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
> work. Apologies.

Vandemen has been spewing one sided blather probably before I got on the net in 1998. He don't like
no mtb's...got it? He doesn't much like cars either. I'm a die hard mtber and I don't like cars, but
just the fact I like mtb's make me his enemy. Would he do better if he could bend a tad to accept me
and other mtber's that don't like cars? He just can't do it. The man is the most stubborn
son-of-a-gun I've ever know, [and that ain't no compliment, Mike.]
 
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:57:34 -0500, "x" <[email protected]> wrote:

.Mikey, . .I for one find animals rights activist extremely annoying. Have you ever .had a furry
woodland creature just sit there and stare at you? Kind of .Pisses you off doesn't it?! I find it
hard to concentrate on tearing up any .pristine mountain trails, when I'm riding along scratching my
nuts. It's .hard work trying to find a decent short cut though those damned groomed, and .marked
trails. Although, I don't get too upset if if a horse or dog was to .take a dump in the middle of
one. I just add my own logs to the steaming .pile of filth. -Screw those hippy save the world
activist. I hope they step .in it! I don't get much of a chance to get out biking much these days,
as .my SUV only gets 10 mpg and it's a long drive up to the nearest trail. I .guess I'll just stay
home and watch cable....

Did you say something?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On 25 Feb 2003 10:51:05 -0800, [email protected] (bikebreath) wrote:

."Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:58:18 GMT, Mike
Vandeman <[email protected]> .> wrote: 1,600 words of untrimmed reply with his usual non-standard
.> quote delimiter and no actual content. .> Guy .> === .> ** WARNING ** This posting may contain
traces of irony. .> http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and dynamic DNS permitting) .> NOTE: BT
Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old .> mail addresses may no longer work.
Apologies. . .Vandemen has been spewing one sided blather probably before I got on .the net in 1998.
He don't like no mtb's...got it? He doesn't much .like cars either. I'm a die hard mtber and I don't
like cars, but .just the fact I like mtb's make me his enemy.

YOU aren't my enemy. MOUNTAIN BIKING is my enemy. Get it?

Would he do better if .he could bend a tad to accept me and other mtber's that don't like .cars?
He just can't do it. The man is the most stubborn son-of-a-gun .I've ever know, [and that ain't no
compliment, Mike.]

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"x" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Mikey,
>
> I for one find animals rights activist extremely annoying. Have you ever had a furry woodland
> creature just sit there and stare at you? Kind of Pisses you off doesn't it?!

Only until I pull the trigger, then I feel much better.

> I find it hard to concentrate on tearing up any pristine mountain trails, when I'm riding along
> scratching my nuts. It's hard work trying to find a decent short cut though those damned groomed,
> and marked trails.

You can do it though. The easiest thing is to just start a big fire, the weekend before you go
biking. Then you can see the topography a lot better, not to mention all the new growth it
encourages later on - the animals love that ****.

> I don't get much of a chance to get out biking much these days, as my SUV only gets 10 mpg and
> it's a long drive up to the nearest trail. I guess I'll just stay home and watch cable.... X

:)
 
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