What percentage of a cholesterol decrease can be attributed to statins ?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Joe Smigiel, Oct 4, 2003.

  1. Joe Smigiel

    Joe Smigiel Guest

    I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4 weeks
    time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30% since
    graduating from the program.

    My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5. Yesterday I had
    another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)

    Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years), continuing to exercise
    5-6 times per week and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
    oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and I
    haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm still
    about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the extra
    weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    metabolic rate and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    carbs...)

    My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    attributed to the statin? I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of the
    lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor? Any studies out there that
    have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to the
    various factors including statins?

    I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported side
    effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently undergoing
    testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins can
    produce similar effects.

    Thanks for any info or pointers.

    Joe

    (replace the "o" in the email address with an "e" to reply to me
    directly)
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "Joe Smigiel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    > attributed to the statin? I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    > am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of the
    > lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor? Any studies out there that
    > have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to the
    > various factors including statins?
    >
    > I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported side
    > effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently undergoing
    > testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins can
    > produce similar effects.
    >
    > Thanks for any info or pointers.
    >
    > Joe
    >


    I'm not a Dr. and hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I am will respond.
    I'm not aware of any such studies - showing the results of statins vs. diet
    vs. exercise - , but they would probably not be very meaningful anyway because
    the results would vary with the type of diet change (the particular before and
    after diet), exercise change, particular statin and dose, and the individual.
    What is known is that in a broad range of individuals statins reduce LDL
    cholesterol and reduce the risk of cardiovascular "events". However, if you
    are concerned you could talk to your Dr. about going off the Lipitor for a
    period of time and see what happens. That is the only real way of telling.

    As far as I know, however, the cognitive effects of statins are not
    established and also you are on a very low dose. So I think the risk there is
    very small. Also I note that your HDL is very low at 27. Exercise can increase
    this. You said you exercise, but you did not mention how long or how
    vigorously. You might also talk to your Dr. about taking a small amount of
    niacin to improve your HDL. Also, a lot of people recommend fish oil capsules
    for heart patients in general.

    Bill
     
  3. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Just came across this possibly related article:

    Bill

    ___________________


    Statin Therapy Slows Alzheimer's in Small Study



    LONDON (Reuters Health) Sept 22 - Simvastatin significantly slowed disease
    progression in Alzheimer's patients, according to the findings of a small
    German study released on Monday.

    Professor Konrad Beyreuther, of the University of Heidelberg, Germany said 44
    patients were randomized to receive either simvastatin or placebo in a 26-week
    double blind study.

    He told the 16th European College of Neuropsychopharmacology conference in
    Prague that by the end of study, there was a significant difference in the
    patients' average Mini-Mental Status Exam (MMSE) scores.

    In the treatment arm, the slowest rate of disease progression was seen in
    patients with moderate rather than severe Alzheimer's disease, suggesting a
    narrow therapeutic window. He said other studies by his group using guinea
    pigs were also encouraging.

    Several lines of evidence have raised hopes for statin therapy against
    Alzheimer's. Cholesterol metabolism and the disease are genetically linked.
    The apoE4 gene is associated with higher cholesterol levels and has been shown
    to increase the risk of developing the disease three to seven-fold.

    Experimental suppression of cholesterol by statins reduces the formation of
    the short and long forms of amyloid beta. Epidemiological studies have also
    shown that statin therapy reduced the relative risk of Alzheimer's threefold.

    Beyreuther said: "Our hopes go towards brain cholesterol lowering therapies
    because (these) studies, our experiments in cells and animals, and our initial
    clinical trial suggest that treatment with cholesterol-lowering drugs reduces
    amyloid beta production and disease progression."

    But he cautioned: "Long term trials in larger population will have to clarity
    whether statins indeed are able to slow the progression of cognitive symptoms
    in Alzheimer's disease."
     
  4. M. Schwartz

    M. Schwartz Guest

    On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:39:16 -0400, Joe Smigiel wrote:

    > I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    > pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    > (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    > CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4 weeks
    > time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30% since
    > graduating from the program.
    >
    > My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    > Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    > several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    > month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5. Yesterday I had
    > another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    > 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
    >
    > Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    > smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years), continuing to exercise
    > 5-6 times per week and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
    > oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    > meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    > meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    > and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and I
    > haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm still
    > about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    > increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the extra
    > weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    > the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    > metabolic rate and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > carbs...)
    >
    > My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    > attributed to the statin? I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    > am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of the
    > lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor? Any studies out there that
    > have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to the
    > various factors including statins?
    >
    > I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported side
    > effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently undergoing
    > testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins can
    > produce similar effects.
    >
    > Thanks for any info or pointers.
    >
    > Joe
    >
    > (replace the "o" in the email address with an "e" to reply to me
    > directly)


    Your HDL is very low. Above you state your TC is under 100 but I think you
    mean LDL?

    Have you cut out refined carbohydrates? I think cutting out refined carbs
    can help you raise HDL. Of course exercise can also help. The type of
    exercise in how vigorous, length of time, and how often are all factors in
    raising HDL. Some believe that fatty fish like salmon, sardines, and
    herring can also help your HDL, and fish oil capsules as well. Olive oil
    may help and eating nuts, too. Walnuts contain the omega 3's. Certain nuts
    are high in monosaturated fat like hazelnuts, almonds, pecans, and
    macadamia nuts.

    You don't need meat every day, regardless of whether it's chicken or pork.
    Consider a mediterranean style diet and replacing some of your meat meals
    with beans and rice -- brown rice. Consider having whole wheat pasta.
    Consider more vegetarian type meals and eating small portions with snacks
    such as one ounce of nuts along with a piece of fruit. You don't have to
    feel full after eating a meal. I think one of the biggest mistakes people
    make is a need to feel full after having a meal. Walk away from the table
    with room for more. About two hours or so later, have some nuts and a piece
    of fruit.

    Consider getting "Eat, Drink, and be Healthy" by Dr. Walter Willett.

    I am not a doctor, just someone like you trying to do the right thing.

    Mel
     
  5. James

    James Guest

    "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Joe Smigiel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > My question relates to how much of > > As far as I know, however, the cognitive effects of statins are not

    > established and also you are on a very low dose. > Bill


    They are exceedingly well established in a clinical study reported
    only a few months ago. Do a google search on this newsgroup for the
    reference. What this study showed was that 100% of the patients put
    on a statin for a period of six months suffered a drop in IQ. The
    mean of the placebo control group showed a small increase in IQ as to
    be expected due to practice taking the test six months before at the
    start of the study.

    You need to do your homework better Bill.
     
  6. Joe Smigiel

    Joe Smigiel Guest

    "M. Schwartz" wrote:
    (snip)

    Your HDL is very low. Above you state your TC is under 100 but I think you

    > mean LDL?
    >
    > Have you (snip)


    > Mel


    Uh no. I meant what I said. Total cholesterol under 100. I'm aware there
    are other things I could be doing which might lower it even further, but why?
    My question basically is asking if I had fairly low cholesterol to begin with
    (202) and have since lowered it considerably (under 100), can I get away with
    continuing the lifestyle changes and at the same time cutting out Lipitor?
    Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?

    Joe
     
  7. Herb

    Herb Guest

    In my case, Zocor was solely responsible for a significant lowering of
    my cholesterol. Diet and exercise did not help at all, in fact my
    cholesterol kept rising until I took Zocor.

    --

    Herb
    Boulder, CO



    "Joe Smigiel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    > pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    > (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    > CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4

    weeks
    > time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30%

    since
    > graduating from the program.
    >
    > My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    > Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    > several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    > month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5. Yesterday I had
    > another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    > 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
    >
    > Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    > smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years), continuing to exercise
    > 5-6 times per week and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm

    eating
    > oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    > meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    > meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    > and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and

    I
    > haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm

    still
    > about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    > increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the

    extra
    > weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    > the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    > metabolic rate and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > carbs...)
    >
    > My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    > attributed to the statin? I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    > am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of

    the
    > lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor? Any studies out there

    that
    > have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to

    the
    > various factors including statins?
    >
    > I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported

    side
    > effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently

    undergoing
    > testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins

    can
    > produce similar effects.
    >
    > Thanks for any info or pointers.
    >
    > Joe
    >
    > (replace the "o" in the email address with an "e" to reply to me
    > directly)
    >
     
  8. M. Schwartz

    M. Schwartz Guest

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:48:47 -0400, Joe Smigiel wrote:

    >
    >
    > "M. Schwartz" wrote:
    > (snip)
    >
    > Your HDL is very low. Above you state your TC is under 100 but I think you
    >
    >> mean LDL?
    >>
    >> Have you (snip)

    >
    >> Mel

    >
    > Uh no. I meant what I said. Total cholesterol under 100. I'm aware there
    > are other things I could be doing which might lower it even further, but why?
    > My question basically is asking if I had fairly low cholesterol to begin with
    > (202) and have since lowered it considerably (under 100), can I get away with
    > continuing the lifestyle changes and at the same time cutting out Lipitor?
    > Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?
    >
    > Joe


    Sorry, just noticed you were stating HDL/LDL ratio.

    It's pretty hard to know how much effect your Lipitor has on lowering the
    TC or LDL. I would guess a 10 mg dose of Liptor is reducing your
    cholesterol by around 30 percent.

    You could stop taking the drug and see how it goes. Your numbers are good
    except for that HDL of 27 which is theoretically quite bad. If you do
    decide to stop the drug and experiment, I would suggest following a diet
    that includes chicken 2 or 3 times a week, salmon twice a week, beans and
    rice at least once a week, a meat substitute like Lightlife's Gimme Lean
    that can be used to make meatballs. Those are suggestions for dinner. Lunch
    should be sardines at least once a week, veggie burger at least once a
    week, ratatoulle twice a week, turkey breast once a week, porcini mushroom
    and barley risotta (from Dr. Willet's book) - lunch menus are not
    practical if you have to work outside your home :)

    You really should get Dr. Willett's book and follow his food pyramid - just
    my opinion.

    One more very important thing, when taking a statin drug, you should
    definitely be taking a Co-Q10 supplement. Statin drugs prevent the body
    from manufacturing this much needed nutrient. A daily dose of at least 100
    mg is highly recommended - not the powdered capsule but the softgel.

    Mel
     
  9. M. Schwartz

    M. Schwartz Guest

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:00:41 GMT, Herb wrote:

    > In my case, Zocor was solely responsible for a significant lowering of
    > my cholesterol. Diet and exercise did not help at all, in fact my
    > cholesterol kept rising until I took Zocor.


    Did you cut out all refined carbohydrates? I take 10 mg of Zocor and it did
    reduce my cholesterol by around 25 percent. However, when I cut out refined
    carbs and made other changes to my diet, my total cholesterol dropped even
    more and my LDL dropped from around 98 to 81.

    Mel
     
  10. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Joe Smigiel <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?


    The data I've seen show that a statin reduces cholesterol much more than the
    reduction achieved by diet alone, for most people. In other words, the statin
    probably accounts for more than 50% of the reduction, possibly much more than
    50%.
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  11. "Jim Chinnis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Joe Smigiel <[email protected]> wrote in part:
    >
    > >Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?

    >
    > The data I've seen show that a statin reduces cholesterol much more than

    the
    > reduction achieved by diet alone, for most people. In other words, the

    statin
    > probably accounts for more than 50% of the reduction, possibly much more

    than
    > 50%.
    > --
    > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA


    Some Data on Low Cholesterol Diet - No Statins taken.
    Same lab used for both tests - VA Medical Center in Martinsburg, WV. I will
    be having my blood tested every six months so I should get some good long
    term data.
    I also get some form of exercise every day.
    See Below:

    As you can see the total Cholesterol went up but look at the breakdown and
    ratios.
    In addition to being on low carbs, I eat fish at least three times a week,
    eat LOTS of vegetables, cook using olive oil and drink home made dry red
    wine every day. Typical breakfast is eggs and sausage and meat is either
    fish, chicken, pork or beef - either pan fried in Olive oil or baked.

    Started Low Carb diet in May 2003
    Age: 58
    Height 6 foot 1/2 inch

    Date 7-Mar 17-Sep

    Weight 230 207
    Total Cholesterol 194 229
    Triglycerides 65 31
    HDL 58 86
    LDL 122 136.8

    Ratio of Total / HDL 3.34 2.66
    Ratio of Tri / HDL 1.12 .360
     
  12. Joe Smigiel wrote:

    > I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    > pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    > (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    > CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4 weeks
    > time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30% since
    > graduating from the program.
    >
    > My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    > Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    > several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    > month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5.


    You probably mean LDL/HDL ratio.

    > Yesterday I had
    > another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    > 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
    >


    Your HDL needs to be higher. More exercise should help that.

    >
    > Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    > smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years),


    Good.

    > continuing to exercise
    > 5-6 times per week


    This needs to be aerobic for at least 30 minutes daily preferably before
    supper.

    > and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
    > oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    > meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    > meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    > and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and I
    > haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm still
    > about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    > increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the extra
    > weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    > the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    > metabolic rate


    This does more to increase appetite than to lower metabolic rate.

    > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > carbs...)


    Carbs don't cause obesity.

    >
    >
    > My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    > attributed to the statin?


    Much of it could be from the statin.

    > I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    > am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of the
    > lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor?


    Ask your doctor about going without it for a couple months to see.

    > Any studies out there that
    > have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to the
    > various factors including statins?
    >


    Population averages don't predict individual experiences very well.

    >
    > I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported side
    > effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently undergoing
    > testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins can
    > produce similar effects.
    >
    > Thanks for any info or pointers.
    >
    > Joe
    >


    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com
     
  13. John Merlano

    John Merlano Guest

    On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:11:04 -0400, M. Schwartz wrote:

    > On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:48:47 -0400, Joe Smigiel wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> "M. Schwartz" wrote:
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >> Your HDL is very low. Above you state your TC is under 100 but I think you
    >>
    >>> mean LDL?
    >>>
    >>> Have you (snip)

    >>
    >>> Mel

    >>
    >> Uh no. I meant what I said. Total cholesterol under 100. I'm aware there
    >> are other things I could be doing which might lower it even further, but why?
    >> My question basically is asking if I had fairly low cholesterol to begin with
    >> (202) and have since lowered it considerably (under 100), can I get away with
    >> continuing the lifestyle changes and at the same time cutting out Lipitor?
    >> Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?
    >>
    >> Joe

    >
    > Sorry, just noticed you were stating HDL/LDL ratio.
    >
    > It's pretty hard to know how much effect your Lipitor has on lowering the
    > TC or LDL. I would guess a 10 mg dose of Liptor is reducing your
    > cholesterol by around 30 percent.
    >
    > You could stop taking the drug and see how it goes. Your numbers are good
    > except for that HDL of 27 which is theoretically quite bad. If you do
    > decide to stop the drug and experiment, I would suggest following a diet
    > that includes chicken 2 or 3 times a week, salmon twice a week, beans and
    > rice at least once a week, a meat substitute like Lightlife's Gimme Lean
    > that can be used to make meatballs. Those are suggestions for dinner. Lunch
    > should be sardines at least once a week, veggie burger at least once a
    > week, ratatoulle twice a week, turkey breast once a week, porcini mushroom
    > and barley risotta (from Dr. Willet's book) - lunch menus are not
    > practical if you have to work outside your home :)
    >
    > You really should get Dr. Willett's book and follow his food pyramid - just
    > my opinion.
    >
    > One more very important thing, when taking a statin drug, you should
    > definitely be taking a Co-Q10 supplement. Statin drugs prevent the body
    > from manufacturing this much needed nutrient. A daily dose of at least 100
    > mg is highly recommended - not the powdered capsule but the softgel.
    >
    > Mel
    >
    >

    What does Co-Q10 do? Can I get it from food sources?

    John Merlano
     
  14. John Merlano

    John Merlano Guest

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 16:47:55 GMT, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

    > Joe Smigiel wrote:
    >
    >> I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    >> pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    >> (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    >> CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4 weeks
    >> time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30% since
    >> graduating from the program.
    >>
    >> My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    >> Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    >> several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    >> month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5.

    >
    > You probably mean LDL/HDL ratio.
    >
    >> Yesterday I had
    >> another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    >> 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
    >>

    >
    > Your HDL needs to be higher. More exercise should help that.
    >
    >>
    >> Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    >> smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years),

    >
    > Good.
    >
    >> continuing to exercise
    >> 5-6 times per week

    >
    > This needs to be aerobic for at least 30 minutes daily preferably before
    > supper.
    >
    >> and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
    >> oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    >> meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    >> meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    >> and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and I
    >> haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm still
    >> about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    >> increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the extra
    >> weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    >> the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    >> metabolic rate

    >
    > This does more to increase appetite than to lower metabolic rate.
    >
    >> and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    >> carbs...)

    >
    > Carbs don't cause obesity.


    Doesn't eating refined carbs contribute to gaining weight?

    John Merlano
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> My question relates to how much of the drop in cholesterol could be
    >> attributed to the statin?

    >
    > Much of it could be from the statin.
    >
    >> I'd like to get off the drug if I could and
    >> am wondering if the diet and lifestyle changes are the main cause of the
    >> lowered cholesterol or if it is the Lipitor?

    >
    > Ask your doctor about going without it for a couple months to see.
    >
    >> Any studies out there that
    >> have shown what percentage of cholesterol loss can be attributed to the
    >> various factors including statins?
    >>

    >
    > Population averages don't predict individual experiences very well.
    >
    >>
    >> I'm curious and want to get off the statin because of the reported side
    >> effects. I think I've suffered "pump head" and am currently undergoing
    >> testing for losses in cognitive ability, but I've also read statins can
    >> produce similar effects.
    >>
    >> Thanks for any info or pointers.
    >>
    >> Joe
    >>
     
  15. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
    >
    > Joe Smigiel wrote:
    >

    [...]
    > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > > carbs...)

    >
    > Carbs don't cause obesity.


    A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that. However
    that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of obese
    people to lose weight. In addition, it offers a whole host of other
    health benefits like reduced bloodpressure and lower triglcerides. If
    you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book "Protein
    Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.

    Thorsten

    --
    "Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"

    (Theodosius Dobzhansky)
     
  16. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Joe Smigiel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > My question relates to how much of > > As far as I know, however, the

    cognitive effects of statins are not
    > > established and also you are on a very low dose. > Bill

    >
    > They are exceedingly well established in a clinical study reported
    > only a few months ago. Do a google search on this newsgroup for the
    > reference. What this study showed was that 100% of the patients put
    > on a statin for a period of six months suffered a drop in IQ. The
    > mean of the placebo control group showed a small increase in IQ as to
    > be expected due to practice taking the test six months before at the
    > start of the study.
    >
    > You need to do your homework better Bill.


    Could you be so kind as to provide the reference.

    Bill
     
  17. M. Schwartz

    M. Schwartz Guest

    On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:24:25 -0400, John Merlano wrote:

    > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:11:04 -0400, M. Schwartz wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:48:47 -0400, Joe Smigiel wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "M. Schwartz" wrote:
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> Your HDL is very low. Above you state your TC is under 100 but I think you
    >>>
    >>>> mean LDL?
    >>>>
    >>>> Have you (snip)
    >>>
    >>>> Mel
    >>>
    >>> Uh no. I meant what I said. Total cholesterol under 100. I'm aware there
    >>> are other things I could be doing which might lower it even further, but why?
    >>> My question basically is asking if I had fairly low cholesterol to begin with
    >>> (202) and have since lowered it considerably (under 100), can I get away with
    >>> continuing the lifestyle changes and at the same time cutting out Lipitor?
    >>> Does Lipitor account for perhaps 10% of the decrease, or 50%, or 90%...?
    >>>
    >>> Joe

    >>
    >> Sorry, just noticed you were stating HDL/LDL ratio.
    >>
    >> It's pretty hard to know how much effect your Lipitor has on lowering the
    >> TC or LDL. I would guess a 10 mg dose of Liptor is reducing your
    >> cholesterol by around 30 percent.
    >>
    >> You could stop taking the drug and see how it goes. Your numbers are good
    >> except for that HDL of 27 which is theoretically quite bad. If you do
    >> decide to stop the drug and experiment, I would suggest following a diet
    >> that includes chicken 2 or 3 times a week, salmon twice a week, beans and
    >> rice at least once a week, a meat substitute like Lightlife's Gimme Lean
    >> that can be used to make meatballs. Those are suggestions for dinner. Lunch
    >> should be sardines at least once a week, veggie burger at least once a
    >> week, ratatoulle twice a week, turkey breast once a week, porcini mushroom
    >> and barley risotta (from Dr. Willet's book) - lunch menus are not
    >> practical if you have to work outside your home :)
    >>
    >> You really should get Dr. Willett's book and follow his food pyramid - just
    >> my opinion.
    >>
    >> One more very important thing, when taking a statin drug, you should
    >> definitely be taking a Co-Q10 supplement. Statin drugs prevent the body
    >> from manufacturing this much needed nutrient. A daily dose of at least 100
    >> mg is highly recommended - not the powdered capsule but the softgel.
    >>
    >> Mel
    >>
    >>

    > What does Co-Q10 do? Can I get it from food sources?
    >
    > John Merlano


    It is required for energy production. A deficiency of coenzyme Q10 is
    associated with impairment of myocardial function, with liver dysfunction
    and with myopathies (including cardiomyopathy and congestive heart
    failure).

    It is a naturally occurring nutrient normally present in every cell in the
    body, and also available through foods (especially fish and meats,
    particularly organ meats). The body makes CoQ-10, but many people probably
    don't make it very well, due to the highly complicated biochemical process
    required for its production. HMG CoA reductance inhibitors (statins) block
    the endogenous biosynthesis of an essential cofactor, coenzyme Q10.

    What that means is people taking a statin drug have CoQ-10 blocked from
    being made in the body. Therefore, it is advisable to supplement with at
    least 100 mg of the softgel form. There are two kinds of CoQ-10: capsule
    and softgel. For getting the most absorption of CoQ-10, it must have some
    form of fat to aid the process. Capsules are in a powdered form and need a
    fatty meal to help the absorption process while the softgel comes in an oil
    base to provide the needed fat and help better absorb more of the nutrient.

    Mel
     
  18. M. Schwartz

    M. Schwartz Guest

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:05:08 +0200, Thorsten Schier wrote:

    >
    >
    > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
    >>
    >> Joe Smigiel wrote:
    >>

    > [...]
    >>> and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    >>> carbs...)

    >>
    >> Carbs don't cause obesity.

    >
    > A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that. However
    > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of obese
    > people to lose weight. In addition, it offers a whole host of other
    > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure and lower triglcerides. If
    > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book "Protein
    > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.
    >
    > Thorsten


    I'll agree with you that cutting out refined carbohydrates is a good thing,
    but complex carbohydrates serve a very important nutritional function.

    I eat lots of complex carbs and I'm 5'7 3/4" tall without shoes and weigh
    131 pounds before breakfast, and, my triglyceride level is 65. Blood
    pressure at last reading was 118/70.

    Mel
     
  19. John Merlano wrote:

    > On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 16:47:55 GMT, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    >
    > > Joe Smigiel wrote:
    > >
    > >> I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
    > >> pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
    > >> (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
    > >> CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4 weeks
    > >> time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30% since
    > >> graduating from the program.
    > >>
    > >> My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
    > >> Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
    > >> several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
    > >> month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5.

    > >
    > > You probably mean LDL/HDL ratio.
    > >
    > >> Yesterday I had
    > >> another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
    > >> 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
    > >>

    > >
    > > Your HDL needs to be higher. More exercise should help that.
    > >
    > >>
    > >> Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
    > >> smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years),

    > >
    > > Good.
    > >
    > >> continuing to exercise
    > >> 5-6 times per week

    > >
    > > This needs to be aerobic for at least 30 minutes daily preferably before
    > > supper.
    > >
    > >> and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
    > >> oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
    > >> meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
    > >> meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt foods
    > >> and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc., and I
    > >> haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm still
    > >> about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
    > >> increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the extra
    > >> weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I figure
    > >> the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
    > >> metabolic rate

    > >
    > > This does more to increase appetite than to lower metabolic rate.
    > >
    > >> and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > >> carbs...)

    > >
    > > Carbs don't cause obesity.

    >
    > Doesn't eating refined carbs contribute to gaining weight?
    >
    > John Merlano


    No.

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com
     
  20. Thorsten Schier wrote:

    > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
    > >
    > > Joe Smigiel wrote:
    > >

    > [...]
    > > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
    > > > carbs...)

    > >
    > > Carbs don't cause obesity.

    >
    > A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that.


    If that were true, it should be easy for you to cite research studies
    describing carbohydrates causing obesity.

    Please don't cite Dr. Atkins:

    (1) He's dead.

    (2) He wasn't a scientist. Being a diet guru was not the same.

    > However
    > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of obese
    > people to lose weight.


    Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that research
    studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success rates..

    > In addition, it offers a whole host of other
    > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure


    That happens from losing weight.

    > and lower triglcerides.


    This also happens largely from losing weight.

    Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not a good
    thing physiologically.

    > If
    > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book "Protein
    > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.
    >


    I prefer peer-reviewed journal article to books like "Protein Power."

    The latter sounds too much like "White Power."

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com
     
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