What software for power meter?

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by scottz123, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. scottz123

    scottz123 New Member

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    I am going to be obtaining a power meter (stages)

    What kind of software have you been using? likes, dislikes, cost
    Thanks in advance
     
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  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    I've been using WKO+ for about 4 years. For the cost it's been great.

    Much more informative than the software that came with my PowerTap and the Performance Monitor information is also invaluable for planning. It's not so much just a view for looking at powermeter data - it's an all encompassing encyclopedia of everything you do on the bike and what you can possibly do in the near future...

    I'd almost go as far to say that without this software, the power meter is just a bit of a toy.
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    WKO+ 3.0 is what I am using and will probably get 4.0 when it comes out soon depending on the cost. For now 3.0 does everything that I need and like swampy mentioned the PMC is what I tend to value the most in WKO.

    I also use online sites to look at single post ride data and have an annual low cost premium membership to Strava for the advanced power metrics for a single ride and in the curve it will show you a comparison of best efforts of compiled data, but does not have something like the PMC at this time. I am not really sure the premium membership is worth it and if one is limited to a budget Golden Cheetah is a good option since it is free. WKO to me was worth a one time payment.

    Garmin Connect is another place that I use for single ride. Nothing that will help to really analyze compiled data or at least that I am aware.

    Golden Cheetah is free as a download and has much of the same capability as WKO. I have it, but don't use it much. Just my personal preference for WKO. There are a lot of users split between these two applications so you can get a lot of fast support if you need advice or need to search the web for guidance.

    There are some other online sites like TrainingPeaks if you don't mind an ongoing payment system for a premium membership.
     
  4. dkrenik

    dkrenik Member

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    I've been a WKO+ user for almost 7 years and couldn't imagine using my PM without it. I have an SRM and download to SRMWin then import to WKO+ then upload to TP (I like multiple copies in different places for my data). I've also used Golden Cheetah and like it. It just doesn't seem to have the "polish" in the UI that WKO+ has. I'll definitely be going to WKO4 when it's released.
     
  5. Subliminal-SS

    Subliminal-SS New Member

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    I Find training peaks online nice and easily accessible out and about. Do most of my pondering and planning at work don't get time at home. Single best feature I've unlocked however is the use of Virtual Training this winter. Had no idea I could use a generic power meter to drive Google Earth Rides or Real Life Videos.

    http://virtualtraining.cycleops.com/

    Completely revolutionised my Turbo Sessions which IMHO is one of the best uses of the power meter.
     
  6. steve

    steve Administrator
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    Hey that looks interesting, will have to check it out.
     
  7. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I use software that gives me the information I want.

    Golden Cheatah and PowerAgent do that. I like to see how much time I spend with my heart rate above LT. I like to see my power numbers for 10 minute intervals. I like to see my average power for a ride.

    ---

    There seems to be new software form the shill Andy Coggan and TrainingPeaks.com. I would stay away from anything that relates to that or the concepts of NP, TSS, CTL and what not. There is no science behind the concepts. But lots of hype.
     
  8. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    New software? WKO has released years before you started trolling this board... I think the first version was out in 2002 or 2003. One of these days you'll actually post something that's factually correct. ;) Just think, with WKO+ 4, there'll be lots of new concepts and terms for you to bitch about.
     
    dkrenik likes this.
  9. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    What's even more ironic is the two software packages he does suggest both provide NP, IF and TSS, all copied from WKO+.
     
  10. maxroadrash

    maxroadrash New Member

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    Everytime someone quotes it feeds him. Don't.
     
  11. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    If only there was such a thing as a troll - then I could take a picture of the sign at the zoo that says "don't feed the troll."
     
  12. RChung

    RChung New Member

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    They're not "copied form WKO+." The algorithms pre-dated WKO+.
     
  13. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    True. Replicates what WKO+ used first might have been a better choice of words. In Poweragent's case, fairly recently.
     
  14. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Actually, they do not. Hunter and Kevin started developing the software in mid-2002, after attending the seminal power-based training symposium held in conjunction with the US Pro Championships/Liberty Classic in Philadelphia that summer. Hunter then reached out to me later that year to request my input and assistance, which led in January of 2003 to the conceptualization/development of normalized power/TSS/the PMC. Thus, while these ideas were first revealed on the wattage list on 3/13/2003 and the software wasn't unveiled until 8/5/2003, the program (then called CyclingPeaks) was built around them from the start.

    EDIT: A few other salient dates/facts:

    10/15/2001: 1st power-based training levels proposed via wattage list
    2/11/2002: Critical power model 1st brought to attention of wattage list
    1/24/2003: NP, TSS, and PMC conceived
    3/13/ 2003: NP and TSS revealed via wattage list
    5/19/2003: Power profiling revealed via wattage list
    8/5/2003: CyclingPeaks 1.1 incorporating NP and TSS released
    11/6/2003: Quadrant analysis revealed via wattage list
    11/12/2004: PMC output revealed at USA Cycling Coaching Summit
    3/3/2005: Secret ‘eweTSS’ mailing list started to further develop/evaluate PMC
    4/30/2005: 1st clear distinction drawn between training stress scores and training adaptation scores in post to wattage list
    2005-2006: Details of PMC gradually revealed (e.g., via articles by Frank Overton in PezCycling News)
    9/26/2005: 1st description of a weighting function for a training adaptation score in post to wattage list
    8/16/2006: WKO+ 2.1 incorporating the PMC released
    2/1/2007: 1st method for “on-the-fly” calculation of non-sustainable energy reserves revealed in blog post by Alex Simmons
    10/20/2009: New model of relationship between training and performance developed
    6/22/2012: New power-duration model developed
     
  15. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Perhaps you have not read the post from TrainingPeaks.com. The one with the video of the shill, Andy Coggan, promoting ideas from the 80s. The one about the new software.

    I see acoggan has posted in this thread. he claims to be the shill, Andy Coggan. In the past he, acoggan, has said there is no science behind NP, TSS and what not. I think you should bitch about that.
     
  16. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    The software packages provide some useful tools also. It is a lot like the internet: you get the bad with the good.

    ---

    I am sure that Andy Coggan and Philip Friere Skiba could comment on why TSS ( in PowerAgent) and Bikescore (in Golden Cheatah) are not the same. But neither has any scientific support.
     
  17. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    So you rubbish one software because it includes such metrics, yet praise others even though they have the same metrics? Hypocrite.
    They probably could. Phil already wrote a discussion paper on it many years ago.

    The reason why TSS and Bikescore values are different is Bikescore is based on XP which uses a different algorithm to NP*. Phil's discussion paper explains the differences, and he also points out there is little to no difference in their physiological validity, use and implementation.

    The reasons why Phil created XP / Bikescore as an alternative/substitute for NP/TSS are probably as much about commercial considerations as physiological validity.



    * XP relies on an exponentially weighted moving average power with a time constant of 25 seconds, where NP uses a 30-second rolling mean power. Thereafter Bikescore and TSS use the same 4th order averaging process. Bikescore and TSS are effectively the same thing, and they are used in the same way as inputs to an impulse-response model.
     
  18. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I never rubbished nor trashed any software. I simply said which ones I used.

    The Bikescore and TSS "metrics" are religion not science. They have been debunked many times by many people. I am happy to trash them and call their supporters shills and religious fanatics.

    The hypocrites are the developers of those "metrics" who claim their religion is science. (While reaping profits at the expense of those who don't understand the difference between religion and science.)

    ---

    You should improve your reading comprehension. It will help you avoid being a dupe.
     
  19. smaryka

    smaryka Member

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    Can you guys please stop feeding the forum troll please... put him on your ignored list and he might go away eventually.
     
  20. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I agree it ywould help if the trolls went away. But I think we disagree over who the trolls are.
     
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