What the reviews and adverts don´t tell you .



wilmar13

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Nov 30, 2003
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JohnO said:
Incorrect reply to that statement. Try this: "Wow, that's really neat. So what did you do with the old wheels - want to sell them cheap?"

No reason you shouldn't also benefit from someone else's equipment lust...


Now that is much smarter, hopefully too many people won't catch on :D
 

lokstah

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lungdoc said:
I get a little tired of the "buy what you can afford" argument.
Ok. How about the "buy what you can afford, and happen to want" argument? The key here isn't what you should or shouldn't feel compelled to buy. The key here is whether or not it makes sense to judge or talk smack about less accomplished riders (or what we suspect are less accomplished riders) simply because they're not riding modest bikes.

It's poppycock. It's like a professional film editor or a professor of media ridiculing movie enthusiasts for investing in a fancy home TV. Or a runway model or fashionista slamming women who buy fancy clothes.

The only real concern anyone should be leveling towards wealthy, inexperienced riders is making sure the big purchases don't come with crazy expectations. A beginner convinced that a Titus Exogrid with a custom ti stem, aero carbon wheelset and Campy Record is going to shave years off of their fitness ramp-up should be gently taken down and steered towards something sensible.

But a trust-fund baby with scarcely a week of saddle time to his credit looking to buy that Exogrid because he thinks it's a beautiful, soul-stirring, technologically interesting work of art that will stimulate his new passion... that kid should get a pat on the back. Good for him. Shame on all the jealous chumps giving him a hard time.
 

lungdoc

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Jul 27, 2004
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lokstah said:
Ok. How about the "buy what you can afford, and happen to want" argument? The key here isn't what you should or shouldn't feel compelled to buy. The key here is whether or not it makes sense to judge or talk smack about less accomplished riders (or what we suspect are less accomplished riders) simply because they're not riding modest bikes.

It's poppycock. It's like a professional film editor or a professor of media ridiculing movie enthusiasts for investing in a fancy home TV. Or a runway model or fashionista slamming women who buy fancy clothes.

The only real concern anyone should be leveling towards wealthy, inexperienced riders is making sure the big purchases don't come with crazy expectations. A beginner convinced that a Titus Exogrid with a custom ti stem, aero carbon wheelset and Campy Record is going to shave years off of their fitness ramp-up should be gently taken down and steered towards something sensible.

But a trust-fund baby with scarcely a week of saddle time to his credit looking to buy that Exogrid because he thinks it's a beautiful, soul-stirring, technologically interesting work of art that will stimulate his new passion... that kid should get a pat on the back. Good for him. Shame on all the jealous chumps giving him a hard time.
I agree and don't care what someone else decides to spend their money on. I do feel it's useful for many of us to know what sort of difference money brings so we can make an informed decision especially since all but the truly wealthy will have some competing uses for the money (and maybe everybody should, if we count charity). In other words, I don't care of someone else wastes their money but I don't want to waste mine.
 

waxbytes

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Aug 4, 2004
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Here is my opinion on retail bicycle costs, in terms of 2005 dollars:

-every dollar up to the first thousand gives you a dollar's worth of value.

-every dollar from the first to the second thousand gives you fifty cents worth of value.

-every dollar from the second thousand to the third gives you twenty five cents worth of value.

-every dollar from the third thousand to the fourth gives you five cents of value.

-every dollar after the fourth thousand is worth a penny of value.

Now, if you want to talk about status and prestige then you can just invert my opinion (i.e. the first thousand dollars gives you a penny's worth of status per dollar...etc.)
 

wilmar13

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waxbytes said:
Here is my opinion on retail bicycle costs, in terms of 2005 dollars:

-every dollar up to the first thousand gives you a dollar's worth of value.

-every dollar from the first to the second thousand gives you fifty cents worth of value.

-every dollar from the second thousand to the third gives you twenty five cents worth of value.

-every dollar from the third thousand to the fourth gives you five cents of value.

-every dollar after the fourth thousand is worth a penny of value.

Now, if you want to talk about status and prestige then you can just invert my opinion (i.e. the first thousand dollars gives you a penny's worth of status per dollar...etc.)

Wow, I hope you aren't trying for a job in Marketing. ;)
 

el Ingles

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lokstah said:
Ok. How about the "buy what you can afford, and happen to want" argument? The key here isn't what you should or shouldn't feel compelled to buy. The key here is whether or not it makes sense to judge or talk smack about less accomplished riders (or what we suspect are less accomplished riders) simply because they're not riding modest bikes.

It's poppycock. It's like a professional film editor or a professor of media ridiculing movie enthusiasts for investing in a fancy home TV. Or a runway model or fashionista slamming women who buy fancy clothes.

The only real concern anyone should be leveling towards wealthy, inexperienced riders is making sure the big purchases don't come with crazy expectations. A beginner convinced that a Titus Exogrid with a custom ti stem, aero carbon wheelset and Campy Record is going to shave years off of their fitness ramp-up should be gently taken down and steered towards something sensible.

But a trust-fund baby with scarcely a week of saddle time to his credit looking to buy that Exogrid because he thinks it's a beautiful, soul-stirring, technologically interesting work of art that will stimulate his new passion... that kid should get a pat on the back. Good for him. Shame on all the jealous chumps giving him a hard time.


Just saw a 42 inch plasma tv for 3500 € , great picture but but not for the price of a cheap car .
I didn´t start this as an argument for why rich people can´t spend their money only that us lesser mortals should not be conned into buying stuff we can´t afford by reviews that are nothing more than free adverts . Yes Record / Durace is good gear but is it obligatory ? - I´ve seen kids win races with veloce and 105 - to quote LA " it´s not about the bike , stupid "
 

lokstah

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lungdoc said:
I agree and don't care what someone else decides to spend their money on. I do feel it's useful for many of us to know what sort of difference money brings so we can make an informed decision especially since all but the truly wealthy will have some competing uses for the money (and maybe everybody should, if we count charity). In other words, I don't care of someone else wastes their money but I don't want to waste mine.
Fully agreed, lungdoc.
 

lokstah

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el Inglés said:
Just saw a 42 inch plasma tv for 3500 € , great picture but but not for the price of a cheap car .
I didn´t start this as an argument for why rich people can´t spend their money only that us lesser mortals should not be conned into buying stuff we can´t afford by reviews that are nothing more than free adverts . Yes Record / Durace is good gear but is it obligatory ? - I´ve seen kids win races with veloce and 105 - to quote LA " it´s not about the bike , stupid "
I wasn't really addressing you with my previous argument, el Inglés. The purpose of your thread was clear enough and you made valid points. I was only addressing the inevitable chorus of critics who slam spendier riders, particularly those who have yet to "earn the right" to sport fancier gear. That notion boils my blood.

As I stated in my argument, like you and lungdoc, I think it's worthwhile to make sure newer riders understand what they're getting when they drop more shells: the benefits vary depending on the category of item, but the answer is rarely "speed."
 

el Ingles

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lokstah said:
I wasn't really addressing you with my previous argument, el Inglés. The purpose of your thread was clear enough and you made valid points. I was only addressing the inevitable chorus of critics who slam spendier riders, particularly those who have yet to "earn the right" to sport fancier gear. That notion boils my blood.
As I stated in my argument, like you and lungdoc, I think it's worthwhile to make sure newer riders understand what they're getting when they drop more shells: the benefits vary depending on the category of item, but the answer is rarely "speed."

do agree , was not trying to knock you only the cycle mags that " review " gear that they sell advertising space for in the same issue - when did you last see a negative review when the product was also being advertised in that issue ?

re " paying your dues " it´s a stupid concept when it´s about music ( blues usually ) even more so when it´s about about cycling though I do feel that a newbie should buy something cheap first just to see if they like our sport / hobby - then when they buy a better one they´ll know what they like ( or don´t ) and will also have a bike for rainy days ( dare I say with mudguards ! )and the cycle trainer - or is that the treadmill ? :cool:
 

vichercules

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DiabloScott said:
Flashy bikes are jewelry - in order to wear expensive jewelry well, you have to look like you've earned it. Otherwise you'll look like a phoney or a bimbo.

And nobody NEEDS jewelry, a Swatch is practically as good as a Tag-Heuer when it comes to keeping time.

I think this attitude is all wrong. When you have a Tag you look at it a lot more often than you do your swatch, the same goes for a beautifully crafted bike. A sweet looking/feeling bike makes you want to ride more often. If you have the flow why limit yourself?

Never concern yourself if an underemployed racer type thinks your a poseur, his problem not yours.

As far as earning it goes, only a small handful of riders on the planet get sweet rides through sponsorship, the rest of us earn them by having jobs.
 

lokstah

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vichercules said:
I think this attitude is all wrong. When you have a Tag you look at it a lot more often than you do your swatch, the same goes for a beautifully crafted bike. A sweet looking/feeling bike makes you want to ride more often. If you have the flow why limit yourself?

As far as earning it goes, only a small handful of riders on the planet get sweet rides through sponsorship, the rest of us earn them by having jobs.
Don't forget--Scott only said you should look like you earned it.
 

tyler_derden

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Mar 22, 2004
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All of what you say is fine, except that a bike is more than just functional. Any $3 digital watch will tell the time as accurately as anyone needs it told, but that hasn't dried up the market for watches that cost more than $3. A bike is like a watch (or a car, or a house, or a girlfriend, etc.)- it is a functional fashion statement about your personal tastes and means. Few need the sort of stuff for which they pay extra in expensive bikes.

If you can appreciate the difference between a $100 bike and a $1000 bike, then get the $1000 bike. If you want to dress up in racing spandex and pretend you're LA, go for it. If you want to ride a down-hill racing bike between classes at college, do it.

TD
 

baj32161

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Jul 15, 2004
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el Inglés said:
do agree , was not trying to knock you only the cycle mags that " review " gear that they sell advertising space for in the same issue - when did you last see a negative review when the product was also being advertised in that issue ?

re " paying your dues " it´s a stupid concept when it´s about music ( blues usually ) even more so when it´s about about cycling though I do feel that a newbie should buy something cheap first just to see if they like our sport / hobby - then when they buy a better one they´ll know what they like ( or don´t ) and will also have a bike for rainy days ( dare I say with mudguards ! )and the cycle trainer - or is that the treadmill ? :cool:
Well this has nothing to do with "earning the right"...this is just a smart buying tactic. If anyone is not sure if they are going to like this sport and they go out and spend an exhorbitant amount of money on their first bike, wealthy or not, they are just stupid, and I will gladly take said bike off of their hands when it is just sitting in their garage.

Just my $0.02
 

LioNiNoiL

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Sep 29, 2004
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jitteringjr said:
The heck with all that, buy what you can afford. If you are the next Lance Armstrong and all you can afford is a Sora bike, buy it. If you suck at racing and can afford a $10,000 Opera Leonardo with Record, buy it.

Do what makes you happy.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of that, adding only the following: neither look down from your Opera Leonardo with disdain upon your fellow rider on the Sora bike, nor sneer resentfully at the fellow on the Opera Leonardo from your Sora. Admire the bike as a work of art, or dismiss the bike as a mass-market lump; but show some respect for the motor.
 

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