what to do? - follow on from Gym thread

[mac_220]

Hi All,

having read the wieght thread i have some questions which i'm currently a bit comfused about:

1. What session types do i do improve climbing?
2. What type of sessions do i do to improve at 10mile to 25mile TT's?
3. which books can i read that provide valid information/training sessions/training plan based on well etablished research/exerience?
4. I had planned to follow Joe Friels Cyclists training bible approach to plan my season next year using periodisation. Is this information actually any good

I've spent the last year training very easily after having a nasty virus which got into my liver and caused jaundis. I was advised very strongly by a friend/Dr/proffessor (one person) who has been researching Viruses and their effects for 25 years to take 6 months off all exercise to recover and then slowly build up to higher training intensity . So i did, i've spent a year and a 1/2 slowly increasing duration starting with 45mins to the point where i can ride for 3 1/2 to 4 hours and not feel particularly tired, this has been done at low intensity 125-135 bpm, I was about to start on the weights regieme described in Joe Friels Book and am now considering whether to or not, probably not after having read the weights thread.

my max HR is ~198 on the bike
Respiratory quotient is equal to 1 at 186 BPM
my lactate threshold is 160 bpm,
max power output 1058Watts
Power at LT = 183 Watts
Max power on ramp test=260 watts
Time continued after LT on ramp test 4m39seconds

i'm 31 and 1.7m/5'7" tall and weigh 64.5KG/142lbs.
I got the heart rate data from an exercise test which analysed inhaled/exhaled air

I'm very confused and a little disheartened as i hoped i had found a good methodology to create a training plan with, however if it is floored i would like to know before i invest a years worth of training into it. I want to do road races, criteriums and 10-25mile TT

All comments and guidance much appreciated

Regards,

Mark

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Hi All,

having read the wieght thread i have some questions which i'm currently a bit comfused about:

1. What session types do i do improve climbing?
2. What type of sessions do i do to improve at 10mile to 25mile TT's?
3. which books can i read that provide valid information/training sessions/training plan based on well etablished research/exerience?
4. I had planned to follow Joe Friels Cyclists training bible approach to plan my season next year using periodisation. Is this information actually any good

I've spent the last year training very easily after having a nasty virus which got into my liver and caused jaundis. I was advised very strongly by a friend/Dr/proffessor (one person) who has been researching Viruses and their effects for 25 years to take 6 months off all exercise to recover and then slowly build up to higher training intensity . So i did, i've spent a year and a 1/2 slowly increasing duration starting with 45mins to the point where i can ride for 3 1/2 to 4 hours and not feel particularly tired, this has been done at low intensity 125-135 bpm, I was about to start on the weights regieme described in Joe Friels Book and am now considering whether to or not, probably not after having read the weights thread.

my max HR is ~198 on the bike
Respiratory quotient is equal to 1 at 186 BPM
my lactate threshold is 160 bpm,
max power output 1058Watts
Power at LT = 183 Watts
Max power on ramp test=260 watts
Time continued after LT on ramp test 4m39seconds

i'm 31 and 1.7m/5'7" tall and weigh 64.5KG/142lbs.
I got the heart rate data from an exercise test which analysed inhaled/exhaled air

I'm very confused and a little disheartened as i hoped i had found a good methodology to create a training plan with, however if it is floored i would like to know before i invest a years worth of training into it. I want to do road races, criteriums and 10-25mile TT

All comments and guidance much appreciated

Regards,

Mark

Firstly, getting some tests done is an excellent way of commiting to a training programme -- you can now objectively see how your performance/fitness alters with training and follow up testing.

I don't know which lab you tested in and how they defined the incremental test to exhaustion and your lactate threshold. additionally, i don't know what power meter was used to determine your powers. these may have some bearings on your results and follow up testing (as they'd need to be conducted with the same testing apparatus and protocol to give meaning to follow up data).

to improve your fitness for e.g., RRing, TTing, etc., you need to work on increasing your power at LT (however it's defined) and your maximal aerobic power (MAP) - the power at the end of your incremental test. Your peak power (1058 W) is pretty excellent, and if you work on that it should be a minor component of training compared to the other data.

Weight training may not increase your performance in the vital areas you need to improve (LT and MAP).

Sessions that increase your LT and TT ability are those are at that power output and may range from tempo type efforts of 30 - 120 mins @ LT to one to four intervals, once or twice a week of 15 to 30 mins @ TT power. Shorter intervals of ~ 4-mins will also increase LT, TT power and MAP, see http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/trainingstern.shtml

Shorter more intense hill efforts of 2 - 4 mins will also increase MAP and climbing ability. Other components of fitness are also required and are probably beyond the scope of a message board (else i'd need to write a book...).

At RST we don't use the Friel concept of coaching as we have our own style - and thus i can't say how you'd improve under their system (although i personally know that some of their coaches are very good).

As either Friel or ourselves at RST will tell you, the most efficient way of improving is under the guidance of a coach. If you'd like some information on RST please check our website at www.cyclecoach.com (some news coming soon, although readers here may well have guessed some of the news!) or feel free to email me at [email protected]

ric

 

[mac_220]

Ric,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. What is the threshold for which weight training in cyclists is usefull, As you have mentioned that their are benfits for inexperienced rider. What would the threshold for that be? If their are benefits from weight training for less trained cyclists would more benefit be gained by spending the same ammount of time training on the bike?

Regards,

Mark

Firstly, getting some tests done is an excellent way of commiting to a training programme -- you can now objectively see how your performance/fitness alters with training and follow up testing.

I don't know which lab you tested in and how they defined the incremental test to exhaustion and your lactate threshold. additionally, i don't know what power meter was used to determine your powers. these may have some bearings on your results and follow up testing (as they'd need to be conducted with the same testing apparatus and protocol to give meaning to follow up data).

to improve your fitness for e.g., RRing, TTing, etc., you need to work on increasing your power at LT (however it's defined) and your maximal aerobic power (MAP) - the power at the end of your incremental test. Your peak power (1058 W) is pretty excellent, and if you work on that it should be a minor component of training compared to the other data.

Weight training may not increase your performance in the vital areas you need to improve (LT and MAP).

Sessions that increase your LT and TT ability are those are at that power output and may range from tempo type efforts of 30 - 120 mins @ LT to one to four intervals, once or twice a week of 15 to 30 mins @ TT power. Shorter intervals of ~ 4-mins will also increase LT, TT power and MAP, see http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/trainingstern.shtml

Shorter more intense hill efforts of 2 - 4 mins will also increase MAP and climbing ability. Other components of fitness are also required and are probably beyond the scope of a message board (else i'd need to write a book...).

At RST we don't use the Friel concept of coaching as we have our own style - and thus i can't say how you'd improve under their system (although i personally know that some of their coaches are very good).

As either Friel or ourselves at RST will tell you, the most efficient way of improving is under the guidance of a coach. If you'd like some information on RST please check our website at www.cyclecoach.com (some news coming soon, although readers here may well have guessed some of the news!) or feel free to email me at [email protected]

ric

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. What is the threshold for which weight training in cyclists is usefull, As you have mentioned that their are benfits for inexperienced rider. What would the threshold for that be? If their are benefits from weight training for less trained cyclists would more benefit be gained by spending the same ammount of time training on the bike?

Regards,

Mark

I don't believe it's 'useful' for endurance cycling performance. my point was that in low fitness subjects it will increase cycling specific metrics. however, it (weights) won't increase power at the same magnitude as specific bike training. My feeling is that if you can race, or are at a level that is equivalent to being able to race (e.g., i didn't race the other year as i didn't have time, but was fit enough to do so) then weights won't be of benefit for ECP.

Yes, more/better benefits will occur with bike specific training. of course, as pointed out elsewhere, if you can't cycle due to continual inclement weather or whatever, then any exercise is better than no exercise. i would however, recommend a more aerobic exercise such as running or swimming in preference to e.g., weights.

additionally, some people choose weights because it makes them look 'better', that however is an entirely different issue.

ric

 

[mac_220]

Ric,

thanks for all the comments. After reading through the thread i've decided to shelve the weight training sessions i had planned and work on increasing my LT and MAP. Hopefully decision will lead towards a good first season returning to racing.

Regards,

Mark

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,

thanks for all the comments. After reading through the thread i've decided to shelve the weight training sessions i had planned and work on increasing my LT and MAP. Hopefully decision will lead towards a good first season returning to racing.

Regards,

Mark

sounds good to me! let me know if you need any help with coaching etc, as one of us at RST will be able to help you.

have fun
ric