What wheel to use for PT hub

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by frenchyge, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ok, I'm considering getting a PT Pro (or SL) but I'm not really sure about the wheel choices. I'll be using it on a trainer all winter, which makes me think the standard heavy Mavic would be a good, durable choice, but if I were going to use the PT during races then maybe it'd be better to go with something lighter.

    I'd like to know whether people mount them on their backup/training wheels or their top/race wheels. Also, do you really look at and use the power data during races, or is it just something nice to download afterwards? How about TT's? I'd hate to put it on the Mavic Open Pro and then want to use the hub all the time during the races. I know I could always get a second hub, but I'd rather save the cash.
     
    Tags:


  2. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    41
    Hey, Greg. I mounted my PT SL on a Campy Montreal 32 spoke aluminum rim and run the matching rim in front on a Campy Chorus hub. I use it for training and will use it for RRs and crits. I'll have a completely different bike for TTs, but it will have a PT SL hub as well. You'll find the power data invaluable during races, especially if you use a variable power pacing strategy on TTs. In RRs, the power data is not so important when you're riding in a bunch, because you have to do whatever is required to stay with the group, but is useful for bridges, breaks and sprints. Glad to see you're going with power -- you'll never go back. Paul
     
  3. peterwright

    peterwright New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Rap - I have had a heavy rim with PT pro and now own an SL hub and have had it mounted into my Reynolds Alta rim - I use this for training and all my racing exceot for the hiliest courses. The data I get from the races is by FAR the most useful I have seen in over a year of running with power. It is also a pleasure not to be riding a really heavy rim with a really heavy hub sat in the middle - I never enjoyed riding the old PT but now it is a pleasure to have on board. Get a decent lightish and aero rim and go for it.
     
  4. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    Thanks. I'm excited, but not quite there yet. Just putting together a proposal to run past the CFO (wife ;) ) at this point. I'd also like to upgrade my trainer to fluid in the process, so any money saved on PT hubs and rims helps the overall sales pitch. :)
     
  5. MikeHains

    MikeHains New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a follow-up, from my personal experience.

    I umm'ed and ahhh'ed for a long time. After making the plunge (and the delay of getting it into this Country - AUS) I have to tell you, I won't ever be without a PT.

    It is useful to have in all training (even group training). It is especially useful in TT's. It is even useful during a race - particularly when bridging, or climbing (can I make it to the top at this speed ?).

    The most extraordinary use, though, is to examine the data after a race. I had one race where I bridged to a break-away, rode with them for 2 laps, and got dropped. Immediately after the race I felt it was my fault (for not resting on the back of the breakaway). Analysing the PT data, though, I could see the impressive difference in power and speed between the breakaway, and the remaining bunch. I could see, then, why after I slipped back to the bunch I had a ton of energy left for the final bunch sprint.

    In another race, there was a breakaway on a hill. I worked like a maniac with 4 other rides (echelon) to try and get back with the group in front. It was amazing to analyse how much power we put into the chase ... compared to the previous lap where the whole bunch was together.

    So there you go. I'm very happy with my PT (in a simple Mavic Open Pro wheel).
     
  6. frenk

    frenk New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a question: do you consider a Ksyrium SL a heavy wheel? I'm asking this because an Open Pro rim is lighter than a Ksyrium SL's rim...
    I guess the only rims that are significantly lighter are full carbon for tubulars.
     
  7. palewin

    palewin New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Frenchgye: my SL is built up with a DT1.1 rim, very similar to the OP. I've used it in every race this year except for a 6-mile hillclimb TT and the hilly state RR championship. In fact, despite the slight weight differential over my DA7800 rear wheel, I'll even use it in the hillclimb next year because the power readout will do more for my pacing than the lighter wheel. In my experience the very slight weight difference, which is virtually all in the hub (i.e. non-rotating, sort of) hasn't made any difference in my finishes. Since I don't do TTs, and you know from other posts that most of our master's races in NJ are crits, I virtually never look at the readout during races, but always analyze what was going on (i.e. which of my many limiters to work on next...) when I dump the data to CyclingPeaks. Most of the time if I'm solo-ing or on the front of a pace line we're trying to bridge back to the leaders, and at that point it is the visual to the leaders which determines effort (at least for me), not the readout. Similarly, in sprinting (which RD mentions) I can't imagine looking at the PT - its jump and go flat out! Honestly, the one time I looked, I shouldn't have - rider took off from the line, I jumped his wheel, and we were instantly away. I was hurting, looked at the PT, said "this is too high" and used that as an excuse to drop off the wheel, hence blowing my chance in what turned out to be the winning break. Now I might have been blown off anyway, but looking at the PT could only have done psychological damage, no benefit! So, bottom line, OP or similar rim is perfect, but looking at the PT during a race (excluding TTs) is questionable.
     
  8. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    41
    Pete, I think the value of a PM in a race is entirely driven by the nature of the race and how it evolves. While I have yet to use my PM in a race, I have taken note of when power data are valuable in fast group rides. I find that I use power data under three circumstances: First, in long climbs (>2-3 mins) there are usually a couple of guys who go to the front and start the climb too fast. I just settle into a climbing power that I'm comfortable with for the duration of the climb (say, 5 mins) and I inevitably pick off the rabbits well before the top. Because drafting isn't a factor on climbs, I care a lot more about managing my power than I do about maintaining contact. Second, when bridging a gap I prefer to manage my pace with power. Depending on who is off the front and how many there are, I usually have a pretty good idea what average pace they will be able to maintain. I try to bump that a bit and close the gap gradually rather than sprint and put myself in a hole. Because I do so much riding at variable rather than constant power, I have a very good idea how long I can hold a given power, all the way up to ~500w. Third, for sprints (and so far all I have had a chance to do is practice sprints) I would use my PM primarily in the lead-out, to set myself up with my preferred gearing and cadence. In my sprint practice sessions, I have detected a major difference in both my acceleration and top speed depending on my cadence going into the sprint from the lead-out. I can't imagine being able to look at my PM during the sprint, but I definitely use it in the lead-out. The lead-out is huge.
     
  9. palewin

    palewin New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    RD (Paul): I think your analysis is correct, if you are the among strongest in your field. My reality is that while I finish in the top 1/2 to top 1/4th of my fields (i.e. in our yearly state "cup series", out of ~30 ranked 55+ riders, I've ended up 5th twice and 8th once), our race winners are truly national-class racers (who were cat1s or 2s in their younger days) and I am a regional-class racer at best. Thus I feel that my strategy is largely dictated to me by riders better than myself. When those riders go off the front, they aren't going to die; at best they will settle back to a slower pace which I can bridge to. (It is then an interesting tactical decision whether you try to bridge as fast as you can, or at a more "measured" pace at which point you may be dragging a lot of riders in your draft, or be jumped by the next "fast bridger".) Similarly, I will be outsprinted if I lead out; my best strategy is to grab the wheel of one of the national-class sprinters. So in my particular case, the PT readout is rarely useful during the race. It will be interesting to see how "your reality" works out next year. If you typically find yourself in fields with John Howard and/or other ex-Olympians & national champions, you may find your experience comes closer to mine; if you are one of the strongest in the field, your PT-based strategies may work very well. As you said in your post, your approach is largely dictated by the nature of the event.
     
  10. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    You may be right, I really hadn't checked the weights. I was guessing that it was heavier since the Open Pro (at least the one that comes with a PT) is a 32-spoke wheel with round straight, heavy spokes (not even double butted). I normally race my Bontrager Race Lite rear with 24 bladed spokes. Could be there's no weight difference at all except in the hub. Thanks.
     
  11. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes Received:
    41
    I don't know who they will be specifically (actually, I do but don't want to name names), but SoCal is chock full of good racers of all ages, so I know I'll have my hands full -- which is precisely why I am investing so much training time in getting my sustainable power up where I can compete.

    Actually, I think it is a function of when one is in charge of managing one's power, as opposed to having one's power dictated by the peleton or a break group. That will vary race by race and within each race. But, when that moment presents itself, I want to know what I'm going to do and I think one has to practice it on a regular basis.
     
Loading...
Loading...