What will make me slimmer? Zone 3 or zone 4 training?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by SpecializedMok, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which weighs more. :D

    FWIW I'm doing the Climb to Kaiser, 155 miles with 14,500+ feet of climbing. I push a big gear and climb out of the saddle a lot, so yeah I'll be putting out 300+ watts for a not insignificant portion of the ride.
     


  2. Enriss

    Enriss New Member

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    I was actually totally serious. My first reaction was definitely, "there's no way those numbers are real. 10kCal in 10 hours? no way, that's gotta be more watts than any human being can actually put out." So then I went number crunching, found the conversion factor from kCal/hr -> watts, a rough value for efficiency of the human body, and went, "whoa, that number isn't actually superhuman. I wish I could do that..."
     
  3. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    LOL! For some strange reason, I had a feeling this was coming...:D
     
  4. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Well said that chap. Well said...
     
  5. GT Fanatic

    GT Fanatic New Member

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    I'm just going to make this cut and dry, and this post is probably just plain unhelpful, but the easiest way to lose weight is to just get on your bike and ride your ass off.

    I weighed 207 lbs as of last night. I've been riding for 2.5 months and I've lost 14 lbs since starting. While I knew I'd lose weight, that wasn't my main goal. My main goal was to get on a bike and just enjoy myself.

    For a few years now I've had visions of grandeur of the day I'd get back on a bicycle, always reliving those "BMX moments" in my head. I told my wife, "I want to jump Devil's Pit again," which was a dirt ramp at the neighborhood park years ago; over 20 years ago, to be exact. It was a 2-3 foot high dirt ramp in front of a 6 ft long, 4ft deep pit. My wife told me I was crazy, I was no longer 14 years old, and my days of jumping bikes was over.

    Well, we bit, and bought bikes; MOUNTAIN bikes. Now, I'm riding harder than I ever did as a kid, and even have my 42 year-old wife barreling down hills with me on a mountain bike. We joined a bicycle club about a week after purchasing our mountain bikes.

    Now, we're going out on Thursday night rides with the club. I purchased a road bike on Monday, and Rachel will take her mountain bike until she "bites" on a road bike.

    Anyway, I'm rambling here, but I guess what I'm getting at is that if you're getting into biking for fitness, your hobby will be short-lived. Do it because you love it, and the weight-loss will follow.

    Admittedly, yeah, I like losing weight while riding, and it's a small goal of mine to get fit while riding, but it is not my main reason or motivation for doing it. My main motivations are to enjoy myself and re-live those old memories of being 14 years old again and jumping Devil's Pit, something I abandoned when I had gotten my license. Ironically enough, now that I have my license, I want to bike again.
     
  6. gregf83

    gregf83 New Member

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    Have you done this ride before? Those numbers seem a little high (264W avg for 11 hrs??) In any case, given that most people can only absorb about 250-300 Cals/Hr, most of your 10,000 Cals will need to come from fat stores.
     
  7. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    I had a feeling I wasn't exclusively privy to this knowledge...
     
  8. garage sale GT

    garage sale GT New Member

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    Your post-ride meal can either replenish glycogen, or it can make you fat.
     
  9. gregf83

    gregf83 New Member

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    I've seen other riders who've completed that ride in 9 hrs at under 200W avg so I think the Cal estimate is high unless quenya is heavy.
     
  10. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little dense sometimes - que votre point? Follow-up question - can your post-ride meal do both that you mention above, or is it only one or the other?
     
  11. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    No this will be my first Climb to Kaiser, though I have ridden all but about 4 miles of it several times in training including rides that linked the biggest climbs. I don't have a watt-o-meter so I really have no idea how much power I'm generating but a calculator I use that uses heart rate and VO2max plus a bunch of other variables has put my training rides at about 1000 kCAL per hour.

    So are you getting the wattage you mentioned straight from my estimated calorie burn? How universal is that conversion? It seems like an individuals metabolism, level of fitness, and percentage of fast to slow twitch muscles all would make that a highly variable rationship, energy to power in a very complex system.
     
  12. garage sale GT

    garage sale GT New Member

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    Why do you point out that fat stores don't replenish glycogen? How does that defeat Enriss' point? If you only mentioned it incidentally, why didn't you say "incidentally, fat stores do not replenish glycogen?" And you know as well as I do that the goddamn voters have got nothing to do with it.

    If your next meal is refueling your muscles after an anaerobic effort, then that's energy which won't be stored as fat.
     
  13. garage sale GT

    garage sale GT New Member

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    I think the real issue may be at what point does cortisol force your body to store more fat around the midsection?

    Does anybody know anything about that?
     
  14. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    ?? I doubt this Enriss character needs you to fight his battles...but anyway...

    LOL! Now you think you're in a position to tell me how I SHOULD respond to someone?! I suggest you go and crawl back under the rock from whence you came, little person...

    Still, I'd like to know "que votre point"?
     
  15. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    10,000 calories in less that 12 hours... really. A recent jaunt through the 'hills' near Lake Tahoe, the 8 pass Alta Alpina Challenge - 20,000+ft of climbing and 200miles (thanks for the impromptue course extension guys!) took my 170lb lump 8104KJ of PT reported fun... and a bit longer than 12 hours.

    For me, 310 watts nets about 1,000KJ per hour - good luck with doing that for 10+ hours. My polar used to guestimate calorific expenditure at about 25% over what the PT reports via measurement.
     
  16. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    It's all about stress. Sleep more and stop giving a sh1t about trivial things. Take more time to smell the roses and chill.
     
  17. Yonni

    Yonni New Member

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    So well planned post ride nutrition is just as important to ensure that you don't undo all of your hard work. I used to get home and devour the first thing I saw when I opened the fridge adn then wonder why I couldn't drop weight even when training most days. Recovery drinks first for the immediate fix replenish all the important stuff as well as helping to make you feel satiated then little and often quality calories.
     
  18. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    Power and duration tell how much work someone performed. To determine EXACTLY how many calories (how much energy) it takes a person to perform that work requires a metabolic cart or metabolic room. The energy it takes to perform a given amount of work divided by the work performed equals efficiency.

    On average, humans are ~24% efficient on the bike, with the vast majority being between 20% and 25%. There are outliers, but they are not common. Since the average person is 24% efficient the kJ of work shown on a PM = the amount of energy required to perform that work.
     
  19. doctorSpoc

    doctorSpoc New Member

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    As others have indicated, it basically comes down to expending as much energy as you can for the amount of time i.e. riding at the highest ave power you can for the duration...

    how much time you have to give to riding on a day will determine how intense the effort should be.. it's self correcting anyway, if you go too hard you body will force you to slow down... there is a danger of going out too hard, red lining and crawling home with a less than idea ave power.. as other have also indicated you should also think about day to day workouts.. if you kill yourself today and aren't able to ride or force to ride much reduced duration of intensity then maybe it's better that you just ride more reasonably today.. you want to do the most you can day over day and week over week as well..

    forget about aerobic vs anaerobic.. for any effort more than about 1-2 mins you will be, by a wide margin using aerobic metabolism..

    as others have also said.. if you are really interested in weight loss.. controlling intake is really what you should be concentrating on.. much easier to not eat a doughnut than to ride for two hours to get rid of the calories from it.. contrary to popular belief it's actually pretty crazy to think about exercise as a way to quickly lose weight.. use exercise to get you fit.. restrict calories to lose weight.. if you are doing 20-25hr of training a week then yes your training will help you lose weight.. if you're not doing that kind of volume you're really wasting your time even thinking about this.. just restrict your calories..
     
  20. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Wait, when you say "doughnut," you mean the unhealthy ones, right? You're not talking about the healthy, nutritious doughnuts, like the ones at Krispy Kreme, right?
     
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