What would it take to convince you Armstrong is clean?

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Beastt, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Of course the topic makes an assumption that Armstrong is clean but I've read so many accusations that Armstrong is using some kind of banned substance to enhance his cycling ability and so many comments as to the unreliability of drug testing, I have to wonder. What exactly would those who are convinced he is doping require before they believed he wasn't?
     
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  2. HellonWheels

    HellonWheels New Member

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    >>>

    I for one DO NOT AT ALL believe LA is doing dope. But one thing I do know: during chemo there are certain drugs he had to take that would normally be forbidden in athletics. But that was THEN, and this is NOW. He has not been on chemo since what? 1997?

    One thing I do wonder about: they had to remove one testicle and since the testes make testosterone, did he need to get testosterone supplements? I dont know, but maybe if so, this is where the doping allegation comes from?
     
  3. Miguel_garcia83

    Miguel_garcia83 New Member

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    its always hard to believe that your hero doesnt fulfill the rules
     
  4. RedSky

    RedSky New Member

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    It's always easy to believe that the guy we don't like is a cheater.
     
  5. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn New Member

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    I read that he is allowed to get testosterone.

    But it makes no sense, medically. One testicle is enough to produce all the testosterone a man needs. Testosterone production in the testicles is finetuned by the hypophysis (under the brain), which produces production controlling hormones depending on the concentration in the blood. If testosterone is low in the blood, production would be enhanced. One testicle is fully capable of producing the testosterone normally produced by two, like one kidney is sufficient to produce the urin normally made by two.

    I would be convinced if LA would live four month with a neutral witness in the same houses.
     
  6. Miguel_garcia83

    Miguel_garcia83 New Member

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    there are many riders i dont like whom i dont suspect...
     
  7. Bikerman2004

    Bikerman2004 New Member

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    Just as its hard to believe the guy you don't like is honest and just trains better than everyone else and has better preparation. You also said there are others that you dislike and don't respect. However, I don't hear any names or drug allegations about them. Maybe its because they aren't winning. Instead of accusing Armstrong of unfounded and unproven allegations, perhaps you should accuse the others of not putting forth the effort to win. Apparently, most of them weren't ready for the tour......Heras, Mayo, Ullrich!
     
  8. wheresullrich?

    wheresullrich? New Member

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    I'm a lance fan and to be honest even if he did dope i wouldn't be that bothered. Everyone does it apparently.

    And if he has to do a little bad to do so much good who cares.

    He has given so much to co many people.

    who else has given people hope that they too can get through cancer like he has?

    He is a national hero to all americans
    to all cycling fans
    and to every cancer sufferer there is

    I think even if he was guilty people would still respect him for what he has done

    i admire him more for for what he's done for the cancer community most people do

    If he dopes so what everyone does
     
  9. izzodesh

    izzodesh New Member

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    i have been following lance since wayyyy back when he was a sprinter...
    and everyone says he was no good until he lost all the weight and started doping..
    welll go check you records...he always was placing in top 3 throughout races in his youth and mid 20's...
    The only reason ppl doubt him is because he is public spectacle...

    LA is a pure winner.
     
  10. wheresullrich?

    wheresullrich? New Member

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    hey i dont doubt him
    He's the best cyclist! I was saying if it was found out

    I dont think he is doping i think people are just vindictive and jealous of his successes
     
  11. Miguel_garcia83

    Miguel_garcia83 New Member

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    we are not jealous, we just wonder why he got this change, and we dont see any other reason than ones based on doping, because there are no miracles in sport, and the differences are not that huge
     
  12. Bikerman2004

    Bikerman2004 New Member

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    I couldn't disagree more with this.
     
  13. wheresullrich?

    wheresullrich? New Member

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    I take it your not religious then

    There are miracles you should have more faith

    Im sure anyone being as near to death as him would afterwards have had their life change quite significantly
     
  14. birdman23

    birdman23 New Member

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    Nothing in my book. Lance rules.
     
  15. birdman23

    birdman23 New Member

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    No miracles? How about the US beating the Russians in the Olympics and ultimately winning the gold. I think there are a lot of people who would call that a miracle.
     
  16. antoineg

    antoineg New Member

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    You are prostrate before the altar of hero-worship. First you say he isn't doping, then you say you don't care anyway, then you say he's a "hero to all americans" (he isn't), then you say people are just vindictive and jealous.

    What it would take for me:

    1) Public disclosure of the timing and methods of each dope test on LA (after the fact)
    2) LA publicly condemns Ferrari
    3) LA offers to go through a 30-day neutral medical analysis, with daily blood and urine tests, during the peak of his off-season training. By neutral I mean "not one of the cycling team doctors, not UCI, and not any other cycling federation".
    4) LA discloses what he knows about the doping practices of others. I.e. he alluded to Lemond, lets hear the entirety of that story, and what he knows about others.
    5) Full disclosure from Lance about the medications he took to recover from cancer, when he stopped taking them, under whose supervision he took them, and what medications he's taking now. I think a lot of people suspect he took EPO and/or testosterone as part of his recovery -- let's hear the correct, full story.

    2), 4) and 5) will never happen, even though they are the easiest. 3) is hard but would be great proof. 1) depends on the testing organization, but would be valuable to help us understand this mysterious question "exactly how often does Lance get tested? And where are the tests in relation to his lead-up to the TdF?"
     
  17. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    How many of them are American? How many of them have won six Tours de France?
     
  18. Rudy

    Rudy New Member

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    Just my 2 cents here, food for thoughts:

    David Millar has been using EPO for sometimes now and was never caught until recently. That can make for an argument to those who believes that LA is doping but not caught.
    However, corect me if I'm wrong, the tests so far has only been in the category of urine test. They do BLOOD test now which should be more strict and accurate. LA was also asked by the TDF to be involved in the new test schemes and that he was the first one to take the blood test. Has anything official been said about this? I'm not sure. But in my mind, if you can pass blood test like this and countless number of other urine test, I'd say you're pretty clean or you're a wiz at coming up with so called "wonder drug".
    sounds dubious?

    Some thoughts/arguments for LA. why would he want to dope himself after a bout with cancer? wouldn't that be dangerous? and isn't life more prescious than winning TDF?

    conditioning, conditioning, conditioning... look at Ulrich this year. He was a disappointment. oh what about all of his other major contender, Basso, Hamilton etc. Look at LA face, it's basically skin on bones. Compare to last year, look at old video, he came into this year thinner and more prepared. Even Bob Roll said so. Point is... no matter who you are, Ulrich or Basso, you gotta train and know when/what/how, to peak at the right time.

    Does this drug turn you into superman to be able to win TDF 6 times? ummm if so, ask David Millar..he never came close. Only to win a few TT stage(s) (1?). look at all others who were caught doping, it's a list of no names wanna be.
     
  19. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Same old tired argument. He's just too good. He has improved too much. It's unprecedented, therefore it must be impossible. He must be cheating. <Yawn>
     
  20. Miguel_garcia83

    Miguel_garcia83 New Member

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    none, because there is no rider besides armstrong that had won 6 tours of france, so cant be more cases
    i dont like basso, i dont like boonen, i dont like scarponi, i didnt like rominger, i didnt like ugrumov, i didnt like rijs, i dont like boogerd, i dont like heras...
    i only suspect of doping of ugrumov and rijs
     
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