What would it take to convince you Armstrong is clean?



Ted B said:
EPO gives one a boost, but it cannot substitute for talent.

Miller has more talent than Armstrong but Miller was only the small time EPO user. if he was serious about it he would have kicked Armstrong's ass.

problem with Miller is that he has a conscience, that's not a good thing for a pro cyclist. right Lance?
 
paris_boy said:
You Yanks are so innocent. actually it's very cute. difficult to believe such people still exist! do you also believe your Olympic athletes are clean too? or that Bush is the one making decisions?

Anyway, congratulations to your Armstrong for winning. He is a better doper than the others. I just hope he is not sharing needles, that is too dangerous.
If everbody in France is as cyncical as you, maybe the race should be moved somewhere else. ;)
 
paris_boy said:
Miller has more talent than Armstrong but Miller was only the small time EPO user. if he was serious about it he would have kicked Armstrong's ass.

Keep astounding us with your brilliance.
 
paris_boy said:
Miller has more talent than Armstrong but Miller was only the small time EPO user. if he was serious about it he would have kicked Armstrong's ass.

BOVINE EXCREMENT!!! Have you considered a career as a stand-up comedian??? Or maybe you've suffered a blunt trauma injury to the head, you poor thing. I'm sorry but that's just WAY out there!
 
paris_boy said:
You Yanks are really dumb. the European peloton is full of dope and there is too much money involved to clean it up. can Armstrong be the one clean rider? of course not! how can he always beat riders on EPO? it's impossible. if EPO lets a talented cyclist ride even faster, how can Armstrong beat that rider year after year? you all need to get your heads out of the sand and realize your champion is a doper. unfortunately, he has too much money and fans behind him to ever get caught.

p.s.this whole debate reminds me of your tobacco companies saying that there is no proof smoking causes cancer.

Wow! You've really come off in your first post as someone who's here to present intelligent arguments in a respectful manner. Especially by calling all of the "Yanks" dumb (couldn't you be a bit more creative?) in your very first sentance. Congratulations! I'll be waiting anxiously for your future posts to see what kind of enlightenment you'll be sharing with us next! Thanks so much!

Oh and if I don't respond to any of your future posts, it's simply because I didn't bother reading it. No offense. Ciao!
 
You Americans are so funny! you get so serious when a foreigner insults one of you. too bad you do not have the same respect for foreigners. if you did you would not have invaded Iraq.

you want proof about your Armstrong but where was the proof about Saddam? you can murder 1000s of people without proof, but no one can accuse your little boy from Texas! it is too funny!

thanks for the laughs!
 
paris_boy said:
too bad you do not have the same respect for foreigners. if you did you would not have invaded Iraq...you can murder 1000s of people without proof.

Note: This is a cycling forum, there are other forums where you can air your petty political grievances and kiss Saddam's ass.
 
I don't know what he's going on about either...

But anyway. Weren't we talking about cycling?
 
paris_boy said:
Miller has more talent than Armstrong but Miller was only the small time EPO user. if he was serious about it he would have kicked Armstrong's ass.

problem with Miller is that he has a conscience, that's not a good thing for a pro cyclist. right Lance?
It seems like all these threads degenerate into something similar. I can't remember when or where I posted this, but I will reiterate-
Erythropoietins' benefit comes soley from elevation of the red bloood cell mass.
To some extent this has been neutralized particularly in the Grand Tours with the advent of hematocrit limits and recent blood profile used this year in both the tour and Giro that looks at percentage of young red blood cells. Average hematocrits at last few years TDF are very near the pre EPO levles. Having an increased red blood cell mass would probably benefit training to some extent. To what extent isn't known. Several well controled studies using epo or transfusions show a direct effect on performence- 10 K times, cycling times on a trainer etc. It's benefit on training is anecdotal- " I am able to train harder and longer on Epo" but is this placebo- does it equal real lasting gains?
All this said, I think the UCI could do a lot more- require all cyclists to have their hematocrits along with a profile looking at immature cells checked once a month, wether in competition or not. Also, they do perform out of competition tests. Why not publish the names of those who underwent out of competition tests. This would provide some pressure on those that avoid these tests- "oh I wasn't there" or " my lawyer needs to be here".

What could Armstrong do?
Maybe it's time to be proactive. Instead of the Lance chronicles. Have an independent organization monitor his blood profile once every two weeks for 3 months leading up to the tour. Pay to have his urine checked for recombinant erythropoietin weekly (approximaely $ 500 per week x 12 weeks-$ 6,000) and release this information.


I would be real curious about what Millars hematocrit was before the Worlds last year. Regarding Millars talent level. Who knows, he has never been truly dedicated to being the best. I nver have been convinced he would be a future tour winner as he always looked a bit big to get over the mountains, but they said the same about MIguel...
 
Perro Loco said:
What could Armstrong do?
Maybe it's time to be proactive. Instead of the Lance chronicles. Have an independent organization monitor his blood profile once every two weeks for 3 months leading up to the tour. Pay to have his urine checked for recombinant erythropoietin weekly (approximaely $ 500 per week x 12 weeks-$ 6,000) and release this information..

Armstrong Inc. would never let this happen-- there is too much money invested in Lance to ever get the truth out. do you think Nike would let this happen? you all know better than me how money makes the decision in USA
 
paris_boy said:
Armstrong Inc. would never let this happen-- there is too much money invested in Lance to ever get the truth out. do you think Nike would let this happen? you all know better than me how money makes the decision in USA

actually the sole purpose of this website is propaganda and we are secret soldiers for Lance's army and one day we will take over all of France!
But now that you have found our secret hiding place on the internet we are doomed!
Oh mighty French! Your bad cheese and declining wine scares me!
phtttttttttt i spit on u.


just leave!



LIVE STRONG
 
paris_boy said:
You Americans are so funny! you get so serious when a foreigner insults one of you. too bad you do not have the same respect for foreigners. if you did you would not have invaded Iraq.

you want proof about your Armstrong but where was the proof about Saddam? you can murder 1000s of people without proof, but no one can accuse your little boy from Texas! it is too funny!

thanks for the laughs!

Yo Paris_Boy, Do you remember WWII? You ungrateful!! Maybe we shouldn't have invaded France and kick the Germans out of your country. How would you feel if Saddam was raping and killing members of your own family? you'd be crying out like a baby and begging for FOREIGNERS to come and rescue your a** just like we did in WWII.

Enough of this topic!! enough already.

My thoughts on this thread is this. Beyond any definitive proof of LA doping, I cannot and will not condemn the man. And to those of you who doubt him with conjectures and flimsy facts, who are you to flame someone? are you such expert? can you prove it? How would you feel if I called you a liar without any facts after you had just dragged your butt 2000 miles accross mountains?

LA maybe guilty but until then when the facts are proven, should you condemn the man?? Otherwise, be greatful that he has done so much for the sports and bring so much inspirations for many inside and outside of the cycling world. He brought cycling back into focus especially in the U.S.

If God comes down here and perform a miracle in front of you, you'd probably called it a neat trick and doubt the almighty that he's just a mere mortal.
why is it so hard for you to believe that someone can do something great? Yee have such little faith.
 
paris_boy said:
Armstrong Inc. would never let this happen-- there is too much money invested in Lance to ever get the truth out. do you think Nike would let this happen? you all know better than me how money makes the decision in USA
OK, so what makes the decisions in Europe then?

Considering the doping scandals in cycling have been predominantly on European teams, we can then assume that Europeans are more interested in cheating for glory?

You're out of your league on this board.
 
paris_boy said:
Armstrong Inc. would never let this happen-- there is too much money invested in Lance to ever get the truth out. do you think Nike would let this happen? you all know better than me how money makes the decision in USA

Dear Paris Boy I think you use drugs - please prove you don't.

Whilst you are at it please also prove that there are no blue swans. Hmmmm it is hard proving a negative.
 
if all of you are typical Americans, it is easy to undersatnd why the world hates Americans!
 
RedSky said:
OK, so what makes the decisions in Europe then?

Considering the doping scandals in cycling have been predominantly on European teams, we can then assume that Europeans are more interested in cheating for glory?

You're out of your league on this board.

This Paris Boy is just another insignificant frenchman. Pay him no mind. He uses typical French logic - invoking such terms as "respect," yet heaping nothing but scorn on every English-speaking person on the list from the moment he appeared on the scene; claiming that we all must be wilfully blind to doping in cycling, yet himself falling prey to baseless accusations and assumptions grounded in nothing. He compares Lance's wins to big tobacco, seeming to forget that this is just a little sport we're talking about. I love cycling, and I ride every day . . . but at stake ultimately is just a win or a loss.

The French seem to have no perspective on cycling any more - perhaps because they have such "blue balls" over not winning their own grand event for so many years. Not to be crass or anything, but it is certainly true. I offer anecdote as evidence of the national reesentment that exists - seemingly against English-speaking lands in particular. The last time we were in Paris during the tour -- during the final week of the race (once it had become very clear that Lance and his "blue train" would win yet again) we actually had difficulty finding a single bar that would tune their television to the race. We simply wanted to grab a pint and watch the race. We tried over a dozen establishments and not one would tune in the telly to the race. This was the first time I had ever witnessed such willfull blindness. It was as if the race wasn't even taking place.

Go sell your garbage someplace else, Paris Boy.
 
paris_boy said:
if all of you are typical Americans, it is easy to undersatnd why the world hates Americans!
Translated: "I don't like the fact that you see through my ridiculous trolling, so I'm now going to insult you in order to inflate my own small ego."
 
craigstanton said:
This Paris Boy is just another insignificant frenchman. Pay him no mind. He uses typical French logic - invoking such terms as "respect," yet heaping nothing but scorn on every English-speaking person on the list from the moment he appeared on the scene; claiming that we all must be wilfully blind to doping in cycling, yet himself falling prey to baseless accusations and assumptions grounded in nothing. He compares Lance's wins to big tobacco, seeming to forget that this is just a little sport we're talking about. I love cycling, and I ride every day . . . but at stake ultimately is just a win or a loss.

The French seem to have no perspective on cycling any more - perhaps because they have such "blue balls" over not winning their own grand event for so many years. Not to be crass or anything, but it is certainly true. I offer anecdote as evidence of the national reesentment that exists - seemingly against English-speaking lands in particular. The last time we were in Paris during the tour -- during the final week of the race (once it had become very clear that Lance and his "blue train" would win yet again) we actually had difficulty finding a single bar that would tune their television to the race. We simply wanted to grab a pint and watch the race. We tried over a dozen establishments and not one would tune in the telly to the race. This was the first time I had ever witnessed such willfull blindness. It was as if the race wasn't even taking place.

Go sell your garbage someplace else, Paris Boy.


Are you a man? you whine like a little girl.
next July, please stay at home and let us watch what we want on TV.
you are such a typical American.
 
paris_boy said:
Are you a man? you whine like a little girl.

The only one whining here is YOU. As for us horrible Americans, I seem to remember thousands upon thousands of horrible Americans giving their lives so that you could whine in French and not German.

Anyway, this is a cycling forum. We discuss cycling here.
 
paris_boy said:
Are you a man? you whine like a little girl.
next July, please stay at home and let us watch what we want on TV.
you are such a typical American.

No whining here, froggy. Just making a casual observation. Funny, I don't recall specifying that I am American at any point, either.

And isn't your "manliness" SO on display? Making empty threats from behind a computer screen, half-way around the world. I had forgotten how manly the French presence in the world is today. Thanks for reminding all of us.
 

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