What would you do?



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Gonzalez

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Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or grass
verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH side of
the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!

What would you have done?

[follow ups to uk.rec.cycling]
--
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Gonzalez wrote in message ...
>Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or grass
>verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH side of
>the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
>
>What would you have done?
>
>[follow ups to uk.rec.cycling]

If you've set follow-ups to uk.rec.cycling, why bother posting it to uk.rec.driving in the first
place? (I've restored uk.rec.driving)

The answer depends on the width of the road, but broadly would be to slow down rapidly, without
panic braking, and move as far to the left as possible.

There's nothing you can do to protect the cyclist if the other car is going to hit him. All you can
do is leave room, if possible, for the other car to pass safely.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."
 
PeterE wrote:

>If you've set follow-ups to uk.rec.cycling, why bother posting it to uk.rec.driving in the first
>place? (I've restored uk.rec.driving)

I cross posted the message because it has relevance for both groups. I set the follow ups to urc
because the message has more relevance in that group and any interested urd participant could follow
the thread there.

>The answer depends on the width of the road, but broadly would be to slow down rapidly, without
>panic braking, and move as far to the left as possible.

The road is wide enough for two cars to pass cautiously. Two lorries would have difficulty.

>There's nothing you can do to protect the cyclist if the other car is going to hit him. All you can
>do is leave room, if possible, for the other car to pass safely.

And then what?

Stay behind the child until he reaches a place of safety? Pass the child and stay just ahead? Pull
alongside the child and shout instructions? Pass the child and ignore his continued danger?
Something else?

[Follow ups set]
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Gonzalez wrote in message <[email protected]>...
>PeterE wrote:
>
>>If you've set follow-ups to uk.rec.cycling, why bother posting it to uk.rec.driving in the first
>>place? (I've restored uk.rec.driving)
>
>I cross posted the message because it has relevance for both groups. I set the follow ups to urc
>because the message has more relevance in that group and any interested urd participant could
>follow the thread there.

If it's relevant in both groups then the replies are too.

>>The answer depends on the width of the road, but broadly would be to slow down rapidly, without
>>panic braking, and move as far to the left as possible.
>
>The road is wide enough for two cars to pass cautiously. Two lorries would have difficulty.
>
>>There's nothing you can do to protect the cyclist if the other car is
going
>>to hit him. All you can do is leave room, if possible, for the other car
to
>>pass safely.
>
>And then what?
>
>Stay behind the child until he reaches a place of safety? Pass the child and stay just ahead? Pull
>alongside the child and shout instructions? Pass the child and ignore his continued danger?
>Something else?

If you're on the LH side of the road, and the child is on the RH side, there's very little
you can do.

Your original message said:

"Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or grass
verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH side of
the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!"

If there's a car coming in the opposite direction, as I said, move over as far as possible to the
left to give room for it to pass.

If there's no car coming, then just pass the child and it's not your problem. It's not your duty to
stop and tell every pedestrian or cyclist you pass that they're walking/riding in a potentially
unsafe manner.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."
 
PeterE wrote:

>If it's relevant in both groups then the replies are too.

Maybe, but as a pointer has been given to the follow ups, there is no need to continue with the
crosspost.

>If there's no car coming, then just pass the child and it's not your problem. It's not your duty to
>stop and tell every pedestrian or cyclist you pass that they're walking/riding in a potentially
>unsafe manner.

It may not be the driver's problem but don't you feel that there is some moral responsibility?
--
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"Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or grass
> verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH side of
> the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
>
> What would you have done?
>
> [follow ups to uk.rec.cycling]
> --
> remove remove to reply

I'm obviously being particularly dumb here (must be that post easter theobromine overdose ;-), but
what's the problem with a child riding a bicycle on the r/h side of the road ?.... I guess if the
child is riding in the wrong direction for the side of the road he's on, then there might be an
issue, but even then, I'm sure most intelligent individuals with a modicum of common sense and
courtesy and whilst maintaining a high level of awareness would use the controls at their disposal
(brakes / clutch / throttle / horn, etc.) to ensure the situation is as safe as they can make it for
all parties. This is the way accidents are avoided ;-) Cheers, Dave ..a driver, a motorcyclist, a
cyclist, a pedestrian, but most importantly, a human bing!!
 
Dave wrote:

> "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or
> > grass verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH
> > side of the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
> >
> > What would you have done?
> >
> > [follow ups to uk.rec.cycling]
> > --
> > remove remove to reply
>
> I'm obviously being particularly dumb here (must be that post easter theobromine overdose ;-), but
> what's the problem with a child riding a bicycle on the r/h side of the road ?....

I thought the same.

>
> ..a driver, a motorcyclist, a cyclist, a pedestrian, but most importantly, a human bing!!

Aha! There's your answer. Bings are _very_ dumb indeed ;-)

John B
 
John B wrote:

>> I'm obviously being particularly dumb here (must be that post easter theobromine overdose ;-),
>> but what's the problem with a child riding a bicycle on the r/h side of the road ?....
>
>I thought the same.

Sorry! I should have been clearer. The child was cycling on the wrong side of the road, headed in
the same direction as me.

I had very real concerns for the safety of the child, particularly as he looked very unstable and
was headed into a blind bend. The speed limit on that particular section of road is 60 MPH.
--
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In a brief moment of lucidity Gonzalez scribbled:

> Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or grass
> verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH side of
> the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
>
> What would you have done?

Slowed down, left a gap etc .. usual safety rules when driving ..

What did you do ?

Presumably you're concerned that a small child was apparently out and about without supervision ..

--

Completed 1600 Seti work units in 12244 hours http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
 
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:29:11 +0100, Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote:

>Sorry! I should have been clearer. The child was cycling on the wrong side of the road, headed in
>the same direction as me.
>
>I had very real concerns for the safety of the child, particularly as he looked very unstable and
>was headed into a blind bend. The speed limit on that particular section of road is 60 MPH.

Hi Gonzalez

It was clear enough to me, and I'm one of the world's best (worse?) pedants.

I'd have tried to advise him of the eror of his ways and left it at that.

How old was this child, BTW?

James

--
Watch the kite, not where you're going!
 
>In a brief moment of lucidity Gonzalez scribbled:
>
>> Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or
>> grass verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH
>> side of the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
>>
>> What would you have done?
>
>Slowed down, left a gap etc .. usual safety rules when driving ..
>
>What did you do ?

There was a car fairly close behind me. I slowed to a stop, then carried on at the speed of the
child, leaving a sufficient gap so oncoming traffic could safely pass him on my side of the road.
Once past the blind bend I passed him and continued on my journey.

I noticed in my rear mirror that the car behind still wasn't passing the child.

>Presumably you're concerned that a small child was apparently out and about without supervision ..

I was concerned that the child was cycling fairly erratically a third of the way into the road on
the wrong side on a blind bend on a narrow country lane with high hedges with cars at a closing
speed of about 80 MPH.
--
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James Hodson wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:29:11 +0100, Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Sorry! I should have been clearer. The child was cycling on the wrong side of the road, headed in
>>the same direction as me.
>>
>>I had very real concerns for the safety of the child, particularly as he looked very unstable and
>>was headed into a blind bend. The speed limit on that particular section of road is 60 MPH.
>
>Hi Gonzalez
>
>It was clear enough to me, and I'm one of the world's best (worse?) pedants.

Worst <g>

>I'd have tried to advise him of the eror of his ways and left it at that.
>
>How old was this child, BTW?

Eight or nine - no more, perhaps younger.
--
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:47:08 +0100, Gonzalez wrote:

>
>>In a brief moment of lucidity Gonzalez scribbled:
>>
>>> Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or
>>> grass verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH
>>> side of the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
>>>
>>> What would you have done?
>>
>>Slowed down, left a gap etc .. usual safety rules when driving ..
>>
>>What did you do ?
>
> There was a car fairly close behind me. I slowed to a stop, then carried on at the speed of the
> child, leaving a sufficient gap so oncoming traffic could safely pass him on my side of the road.
> Once past the blind bend I passed him and continued on my journey.
>
> I noticed in my rear mirror that the car behind still wasn't passing the child.
>
>>Presumably you're concerned that a small child was apparently out and about without supervision ..
>
> I was concerned that the child was cycling fairly erratically a third of the way into the road

Well at least he was doing something right.

> on the wrong side

Lethal in towns, it might not have been such a bad choice on a country road.

> on a blind bend on a narrow country lane with high hedges with cars at a closing speed of
> about 80 MPH.

It's hard to know how much immediate danger he was in, without riding in the road in the same
conditions. As a lone male in a car (or even if my girlfriend was with me) I would tend to phone the
police before stopping to have a chat with him in case anyone doubted my motives. But I would find
it hard to pass straight by if he was that young.

On my university interview in Glasgow, I met a toddler and his big brother
(4/5ish) in the middle of the road all by themselves at 10.00 PM next to the football stadium. I
asked them whether their parents knew where they were, and they said they'd come and get them
when they came out of the pub. I went into a church to ask should I phone the police, and they
said no, that was quite normal... Nothing to be done. I now wish I had given them a call.

Kit
 
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:25:46 +0100, James Hodson <[email protected]> wrote:

>It was clear enough to me, and I'm one of the world's best (worse?) pedants.

Q: What did the Pink Panther say when James corrected his grammar?

R:

Pedant Pedant Pedant pedant pedant Pedant pedant.... Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.
 
"Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> >In a brief moment of lucidity Gonzalez scribbled:
> >
> >> Driving towards Westbourne on the B2147, high hedges either side of the road, no pavement or
> >> grass verge and on a shallow RH bend I saw a child (perhaps 8 or 9 years old) cycling on the RH
> >> side of the road. A car was coming towards me - and the child!
> >>
> >> What would you have done?
> >
> >Slowed down, left a gap etc .. usual safety rules when driving ..
> >
> >What did you do ?
>
> There was a car fairly close behind me. I slowed to a stop, then carried on at the speed of the
> child, leaving a sufficient gap so oncoming traffic could safely pass him on my side of the road.
> Once past the blind bend I passed him and continued on my journey.
>
> I noticed in my rear mirror that the car behind still wasn't passing the child.
>
> >Presumably you're concerned that a small child was apparently out and about without
> >supervision ..
>
> I was concerned that the child was cycling fairly erratically a third of the way into the road on
> the wrong side on a blind bend on a narrow country lane with high hedges with cars at a closing
> speed of about 80 MPH.
> --
> remove remove to reply

Ah, the sense of adventure and lack of awareness of danger of childhood!!... No doubt he was on his
way to his grannies for extra easter eggs, unbeknownst <s?> to his parents...here's hoping that the
poor little mite made it, eh ;-\

cheers,

Dave.
 
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:29:40 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>It was clear enough to me, and I'm one of the world's best (worse?) pedants.
>
>Q: What did the Pink Panther say when James corrected his grammar?
>

Nothing. It was a diamond. ;-)

James

--
Watch the kite, not where you're going!
 
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:01:06 +0100, Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote:

>>It was clear enough to me, and I'm one of the world's best (worse?) pedants.
>
>Worst <g>
>

Whoops! Typographical error - obviously - as was my spelling or "error". Missed that one,
didn't you?

>>How old was this child, BTW?
>
>Eight or nine - no more, perhaps younger.
>

At least you not likely to be sworn at or have paving slabs lobbed in your direction ... hopefully.

James

--
Watch the kite, not where you're going!
 
Gonzalez wrote:
> John B wrote:
>
>>> I'm obviously being particularly dumb here (must be that post easter theobromine overdose ;-),
>>> but what's the problem with a child riding a bicycle on the r/h side of the road ?....
>>
>> I thought the same.
>
> Sorry! I should have been clearer. The child was cycling on the wrong side of the road, headed in
> the same direction as me.
>
> I had very real concerns for the safety of the child, particularly as he looked very unstable and
> was headed into a blind bend. The speed limit on that particular section of road is 60 MPH.

Hazards, lights, fogs and high beams on, pull far enough forward so you can see around the blind
bend, park your car with the lights facing oncoming traffic, get out, grab kid, put on correct side
of road or offer to call parents or take home...

I disagree about what was said above about it not being your job to protect pedestrians. If it was
my son doing that, I'd want someone to stop him getting killed.
 
Andy wrote:

>> Sorry! I should have been clearer. The child was cycling on the wrong side of the road, headed in
>> the same direction as me.
>>
>> I had very real concerns for the safety of the child, particularly as he looked very unstable and
>> was headed into a blind bend. The speed limit on that particular section of road is 60 MPH.
>
>Hazards, lights, fogs and high beams on, pull far enough forward so you can see around the blind
>bend, park your car with the lights facing oncoming traffic, get out, grab kid, put on correct side
>of road or offer to call parents or take home...

I discounted putting on my hazard lights as it would attract oncoming drivers towards my car, not
the real hazard.

Once the oncoming car had passed safely, I considered using my car to block the entire road ahead of
the child and clear of the bend.

>I disagree about what was said above about it not being your job to protect pedestrians. If it was
>my son doing that, I'd want someone to stop him getting killed.
--
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