Whats the best TOURING frame that you have ever ridden....???

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by paul_in_toronto, Mar 18, 2006.

  1. paul_in_toronto

    paul_in_toronto New Member

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    Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..

    Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    - Size of frame? Compact frame, or sloping top tube?
    - Your height? Your inseam?
    - Frame tubing?
    - Any special features of the frame ?
    - How wide tires?
     
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  2. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

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    Co-Motion Americano 56 cm
    I am 5' 11" with 31" inseam
    Frame Exclusive custom-drawn heat-treated tandem tubing Fork Co-Motion taper-guage Cro-Moly with CNC steerer
    Rear Over Locknut Dimension 145 mm with a symetric Tandem size hub for increased wheel durability.
    The tires I rode were 700C X 37 Continental Top Touring which fit nicely under the Gilles BERTHOUD stainless Steel Fenders.
    I don't own this bicycle, but road it for ~ 1,500 miles in mountains, hills, flat, rain, wind, and other fully loaded touring conditions. It just rides and handles better than the Bruce Gordon BLT, Miyata 1000, and Litespeed Blue Ridge that I have owned.
     
  3. On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    >
    >Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    >- Size of frame?


    25 inches is the best touring frame size.

    JT

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  4. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..


    Comments about all of the polls:

    Your Mileage May Vary is the watchword; one rider's Perfect Frame is
    often another's Laughable Piece Of Junk.

    The fact that two riders are of the same height and inseam does not
    mean that they will need or want the same size and layout of frame.

    Bike fit is *extremely* subjective. A good fit can't be reliably
    achieved by a menu-style selection process; there are too many
    variables, and some of them have to be evaluated simultaneously.

    The fact that something works for someone is not always a predictor
    that it will work for anyone else.

    Last of all, "best" in what way? There are many characteristics to
    evaluate for each category you mentioned; which ones do *you* consider
    most important, and what do you consider to be the attributes which
    make a given characteristic "good"? As before, one rider's Nirvana
    machine may be another's Charon rowboat.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  5. John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    > >
    > >Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    > >- Size of frame?

    >
    > 25 inches is the best touring frame size.
    >


    I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    the best he can?

    I think he's earnest.
     
  6. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 18 Mar 2006 18:39:13 -0800, "Ozark Bicycle"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    >> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    >> >
    >> >Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    >> >- Size of frame?

    >>
    >> 25 inches is the best touring frame size.
    >>

    >
    >I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    >puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    >the best he can?
    >
    >I think he's earnest.


    It is important to be earnest.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  7. Neil Brooks

    Neil Brooks Guest

    On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:28:39 GMT, Werehatrack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 18 Mar 2006 18:39:13 -0800, "Ozark Bicycle"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>> >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    >>> >
    >>> >Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    >>> >- Size of frame?
    >>>
    >>> 25 inches is the best touring frame size.
    >>>

    >>
    >>I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    >>puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    >>the best he can?
    >>
    >>I think he's earnest.

    >
    >It is important to be earnest.


    What a wild idea....
     
  8. andresmuro

    andresmuro Guest

    Ozark Bicycle wrote:

    > I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    > puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    > the best he can?


    either way, I thought that that was funny.

    Andres
     
  9. On 18 Mar 2006 18:39:13 -0800, "Ozark Bicycle"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    >> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:25:03 +1100, paul_in_toronto
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    >> >
    >> >Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    >> >- Size of frame?

    >>
    >> 25 inches is the best touring frame size.
    >>

    >
    >I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    >puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    >the best he can?
    >
    >I think he's earnest.


    He may be earnest but needs to put more thought into his
    quest/question to get useful answers.

    JT

    PS -- I am arrogant and perhaps even an asshole, but I don't have a
    big ego and am only smug about some things.

    ****************************
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  10. On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:26:43 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 18 Mar 2006 18:39:13 -0800, "Ozark Bicycle"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >


    >>I wonder: is this the wise-ass reply of a smug, arrogant asshole with a
    >>puffed up ego, or an earnest response from a special needs person doing
    >>the best he can?
    >>
    >>I think he's earnest.

    >
    >He may be earnest but needs to put more thought into his
    >quest/question to get useful answers.


    Oops, sorry to confirm my problems with reading comprension for Ozark
    -- I didn't realize the "earnest" in his question was referring to me,
    not the OP.

    My response was an attempt to be funny and also an expression of
    annoyance with a poorly formed set of questions sent to a couple of
    newsgroups.

    JT

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    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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  11. Patrick Lamb

    Patrick Lamb Guest

    On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:01:44 +1100, daveornee
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I don't own this bicycle, but road it for ~ 1,500 miles in mountains,
    >hills, flat, rain, wind, and other fully loaded touring conditions. It
    >just rides and handles better than the Bruce Gordon BLT, Miyata 1000,
    >and Litespeed Blue Ridge that I have owned.


    Just out of curiosity, how did you manage to ride a bike like this
    that you don't own for 1500 miles?

    Pat

    Email address works as is.
     
  12. > Co-Motion Americano 56 cm
    > Rear Over Locknut Dimension 145 mm with a symetric Tandem size hub for
    > increased wheel durability.


    This is the one detail of the Americano frame that would prevent me
    from buying it. When touring you do not want a very specialized part
    such as a 145mm axle because when you need to replace it, its very hard
    to find. The vast, vast majority of local bike shops do not carry
    tandem specific parts. These are special ordered when needed.

    For the internet bicyclists who think 36, 40, 48 spoke wheels or tandem
    width, zero dish wheels are indestructible, they apparently do not ride
    bikes. Crashes can ruin a wheel. Laying the bike down and having a
    car accidentally back over the rear wheel can destroy it. Rolling into
    a sewer grate and not getting unclipped and falling over can ruin it.
    Many ways to ruin a wheel on a long bike tour. Best to have readily
    available parts such as standard 135/130 mm width rear axles. Just
    find any bike shop and buy a wheel they have hanging up or off a bike
    on the floor. Rear wheels off the abundant hybrid bikes work fine on
    touring bikes. You're ready to go in minutes.
     
  13. Dane Buson

    Dane Buson Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >> Co-Motion Americano 56 cm
    >> Rear Over Locknut Dimension 145 mm with a symetric Tandem size hub for
    >> increased wheel durability.

    >
    > This is the one detail of the Americano frame that would prevent me
    > from buying it. When touring you do not want a very specialized part
    > such as a 145mm axle because when you need to replace it, its very hard
    > to find. The vast, vast majority of local bike shops do not carry
    > tandem specific parts. These are special ordered when needed.


    I was tempted by the Americano when my CrossCheck frame broke. After
    I got it back (warrantee repair yeah!) I found a 135 OLD hub that's
    drilled for 48 spokes. So now I have a 48 spoke wheel using a standard
    OLD. So if my wheel did get toasted, I can pop a standard (130 or 135)
    wheel in there.

    OTOH, of course I don't get zero dish out of that, but I think it's
    a reasonable trade-off.

    Regarding the Americano though, couldn't you put 5mm spacers on both
    sides and use a 135mm wheel?

    --
    Dane Buson - [email protected]
    Nietzsche says that we will live the same life, over and over again.
    God -- I'll have to sit through the Ice Capades again.
    -- Woody Allen, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
     
  14. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

    Joined:
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    A riding partner switched with me on a cross country ride.
    No doubt, the 145 mm rear wheel makes it more difficult to find an instant swap out in most local bicycle shops. However, the wheel is still more durable and is available from stock in many tandem shops. My riding partner keeps a spare tandem wheel at his local shop available for overnight shipment or pick-up should he have the need for his Co-Motion Americano or his Co-Motion tandem.
    I am well aware of the potential difficulties of repair/replacement of unique bicycle components. We ride 26" and 700C wheeled tandems with 160 mm OLD rear wheels. I usually ride a 700C touring frame that has 132.5 mm spacing between the rear drop-outs. I have been able to cross the country 17 times without needing to replace anything other than tires and tubes on my wheels.
    I have also crossed the country 12 times on my 26" wheeled S & S Coupled touring bicycle. Using 26" wheels makes for easier packing in the Airline legal case and makes finding 135 mm spaced rear wheel(s) easier too. I have never needed to replace any wheel part on that bicycle either, except tires and tubes.
    I know that I am lucky in having avoiding accidents during my tours.
    No bicycle is imune to damage from collisions with motor vehicles. You must consider costs, availability, and convenience when you make any component selection. Independent cross country touring teaches you many things about selecting reliable, serviceable, and readily available replacements.
     
  15. Dane Buson wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    > >> Co-Motion Americano 56 cm
    > >> Rear Over Locknut Dimension 145 mm with a symetric Tandem size hub for
    > >> increased wheel durability.

    > >
    > > This is the one detail of the Americano frame that would prevent me
    > > from buying it. When touring you do not want a very specialized part
    > > such as a 145mm axle because when you need to replace it, its very hard
    > > to find. The vast, vast majority of local bike shops do not carry
    > > tandem specific parts. These are special ordered when needed.

    >
    > I was tempted by the Americano when my CrossCheck frame broke. After
    > I got it back (warrantee repair yeah!) I found a 135 OLD hub that's
    > drilled for 48 spokes. So now I have a 48 spoke wheel using a standard
    > OLD. So if my wheel did get toasted, I can pop a standard (130 or 135)
    > wheel in there.
    >
    > OTOH, of course I don't get zero dish out of that, but I think it's
    > a reasonable trade-off.
    >
    > Regarding the Americano though, couldn't you put 5mm spacers on both
    > sides and use a 135mm wheel?


    No. If you put a half a centimeter of spacers onto either side of a
    threaded 135mm axle, you would likely have no axle sticking out past
    the locknut to fit in between the 145mm spacing of the frame. The rear
    dropout would be sitting on the quick release skewer with the locknuts
    and axle completely squeezed between the dropouts. Sheldon Brown
    writes about using this technique for fixed gears and vertical rear
    dropouts and claims success. But I would not really like to try it on
    a loaded touring bike. To check how much extra axle you have on a rear
    wheel, take it out of the bike and look how much is sticking out each
    end. Is it more than 5mm?

    I've toured a few thousand miles loaded on a 36 spoke 135mm wheel with
    no problems. From 1992 to 2000. Me, bike, gear weighed about 260
    pounds. With today's touring/hybrid rims and quality spokes and hubs,
    I think 135mm and 36 spokes is more than stout enough and you have the
    benefit of readily available parts when they break.

    Co-Motion makes the Northwester model too. I think it is pretty darn
    similar to the Americano but more normal with the rear wheel. More
    than good enough for any loaded touring. I'd choose it over the
    Americano if forced to choose between the two because of the 145mm axle
    on the Americano.



    >
    > --
    > Dane Buson - [email protected]
    > Nietzsche says that we will live the same life, over and over again.
    > God -- I'll have to sit through the Ice Capades again.
    > -- Woody Allen, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
     
  16. Dane Buson

    Dane Buson Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Dane Buson wrote:
    >>
    >> Regarding the Americano though, couldn't you put 5mm spacers on both
    >> sides and use a 135mm wheel?

    >
    > No. If you put a half a centimeter of spacers onto either side of a
    > threaded 135mm axle, you would likely have no axle sticking out past
    > the locknut to fit in between the 145mm spacing of the frame. The rear
    > dropout would be sitting on the quick release skewer with the locknuts
    > and axle completely squeezed between the dropouts. Sheldon Brown
    > writes about using this technique for fixed gears and vertical rear
    > dropouts and claims success. But I would not really like to try it on
    > a loaded touring bike. To check how much extra axle you have on a rear
    > wheel, take it out of the bike and look how much is sticking out each
    > end. Is it more than 5mm?


    Point. Though you could always respace the rear triangle *inwards* and
    make it closer to 135mm in an emergency.

    > I've toured a few thousand miles loaded on a 36 spoke 135mm wheel with
    > no problems. From 1992 to 2000. Me, bike, gear weighed about 260
    > pounds. With today's touring/hybrid rims and quality spokes and hubs,
    > I think 135mm and 36 spokes is more than stout enough and you have the
    > benefit of readily available parts when they break.


    When I ride just commuting back and forth to work, my total weight is
    approaching that. 210 for me + clothes + 25-30 pounds of bike + lunch
    + work clothes + etc. I agree with you that 135/36 is more than
    adequate for most purposes.

    > Co-Motion makes the Northwester model too. I think it is pretty darn
    > similar to the Americano but more normal with the rear wheel. More
    > than good enough for any loaded touring. I'd choose it over the
    > Americano if forced to choose between the two because of the 145mm axle
    > on the Americano.


    I like the *idea* of the Americano, but if I was really doing rugged
    butt end of nowhere touring I'd probably take a 26" bike anyway.

    --
    Dane Buson - [email protected]
    "Fantasies are free."
    "NO!! NO!! It's the thought police!!!!"
     
  17. GoCycle

    GoCycle Guest

    I see you are from Canada. I would recommend the Marinoni Tourismo which is
    made in Canada. Great frame!

    Luigi
    "paul_in_toronto" <[email protected]>
    wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]
    >
    > Taking a poll here to work out some geometry and size issues..
    >
    > Whats the best TOURING FRAME that you have ever ridden?
    > - Size of frame? Compact frame, or sloping top tube?
    > - Your height? Your inseam?
    > - Frame tubing?
    > - Any special features of the frame ?
    > - How wide tires?
    >
    >
    > --
    > paul_in_toronto
    >
     
  18. anyone hear from the Giant OCR with discs?
     
  19. Well, I've only had one "true" touring frame and that's the one I now
    own, a 1987 Schwinn "Voyager". However, I did test ride a few other
    frames before purchasing it; Klein, Cannondale, Trek, all production, as
    I couldn't afford a custom frame. I chose the Schwinn for the simple
    reason that the geometry fit me best.
    -------------
    23" frame.

    My height=5'11" 32" inseam

    Frame tubing= Columbus "Tenax" (IOW, could be anything CrMo DB)

    Traditional geometry, full compliment of braze ons (fenders and racks,
    pump peg, 3 sets WB bosses, cable guides and stops, lowrider bosses).

    Hutchinson "Profil"U" 700c x 25 tires.
    ---------
    the original components have all been replaced, but the frame/fork has
    about 50,000 miles on it, and I recently had it repainted.

    My recomendation? Sit down and write out you're needs and desires, then
    go to a good LBS (one that respects touring cyclists) have them take
    measurements and recommend what fits you best and meets your
    requirements.

    - -
    Comments and opinions compliments of,
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    My web Site:
    http://geocities.com/czcorner

    To E-mail me:
    ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
     
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