What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?



Lee wrote:
>
> Um, the Soviet Union didn't have the same kind of budget constraints that we
> do...or at least did until BushJr came along.
>


Um, many would argue that the collapse of the Soviet Union resulted
from cold war budget pressures. We just "outspent them to death."

But perhaps W will turn that type of spending into a form of suicide.
 
Lee wrote:
> "Jim Bianchi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:48:57 -0400, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

>
>
>>It should be noted that the old Soviet Union possessed the largest
>>workable supply of titanium ore in the world. So much so that they could
>>easily afford to use it for submarine hulls as well as whole aircraft
>>fuselages

>
>
> Um, the Soviet Union didn't have the same kind of budget constraints that we
> do...or at least did until BushJr came along.
>
> Lee
>
>

The Soviet Union didn't exactly have a budget /at all/ for a while
there. It's why we can buy USSR-made Ti shovels and prybars now.

Dod the USSR ever make a production aircraft out of Ti? I had not heard
of this, what was it? They probably did some one-offs I'm sure. The
/cargo flooring/ of one military cargo jet was Ti stamped panels, and
that was considered insanely expen$$$ive by the rest of the world.

Among US aircraft--the center section of the F-14's wing is Ti, but the
rest of it is aluminum/composites. Ti was too expensive to justify its
use for the rest of the airplane.

By the by--the largest industrial use of Ti alloy in the US is for
hydraulic lines for large aircraft.
--------
As for Ti, it's not particularly the best material for everything; Ti
alloy's main advantge is its fatigue resistance--it resists cracking
when flexed a lot (this would be really good for a submarine). It also
has a somewhat-high melting point, but that's not of a lot of value in
this use really.

What would be best for a lock and chain (I would think) would be forged
(ordinary) carbon steel with diamond dust impregnated into it.
~~~~~~
 
DougC wrote:

> Lee wrote:
>> "Jim Bianchi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:48:57 -0400, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

>>
>>
>>>It should be noted that the old Soviet Union possessed the largest
>>>workable supply of titanium ore in the world. So much so that they
>>>could easily afford to use it for submarine hulls as well as whole
>>>aircraft fuselages

>>
>>
>> Um, the Soviet Union didn't have the same kind of budget constraints
>> that we do...or at least did until BushJr came along.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>

> The Soviet Union didn't exactly have a budget /at all/ for a while
> there. It's why we can buy USSR-made Ti shovels and prybars now.
>
> Dod the USSR ever make a production aircraft out of Ti? I had not
> heard of this, what was it? They probably did some one-offs I'm sure.
> The /cargo flooring/ of one military cargo jet was Ti stamped panels,
> and that was considered insanely expen$$$ive by the rest of the world.
>
> Among US aircraft--the center section of the F-14's wing is Ti, but
> the rest of it is aluminum/composites. Ti was too expensive to justify
> its use for the rest of the airplane.
>
> By the by--the largest industrial use of Ti alloy in the US is for
> hydraulic lines for large aircraft.
> --------
> As for Ti, it's not particularly the best material for everything; Ti
> alloy's main advantge is its fatigue resistance--it resists cracking
> when flexed a lot (this would be really good for a submarine). It also
> has a somewhat-high melting point, but that's not of a lot of value in
> this use really.
>
> What would be best for a lock and chain (I would think) would be
> forged (ordinary) carbon steel with diamond dust impregnated into it.
> ~~~~~~
>


The A-12s, M-21s, and YF-12s (forerunners of the SR-71) were made of
titanium. The SR-71 is titanium composite.

--
Bill Asher
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

....

> As for Ti, it's not particularly the best material for everything; Ti
> alloy's main advantge is its fatigue resistance--it resists cracking
> when flexed a lot (this would be really good for a submarine). It also
> has a somewhat-high melting point, but that's not of a lot of value in
> this use really.
>
> What would be best for a lock and chain (I would think) would be forged
> (ordinary) carbon steel with diamond dust impregnated into it.


That would make it pretty resistant to a hacksaw, but I don't think it
would help much against bolt cutters.

> ~~~~~~


I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.


--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...

....

>
> The A-12s, M-21s, and YF-12s (forerunners of the SR-71) were made of
> titanium. The SR-71 is titanium composite.


I knew about the SR-71's Ti skin, but not the other two.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
 
DougC wrote:
> Lee wrote:
>
>> "Jim Bianchi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:48:57 -0400, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>> It should be noted that the old Soviet Union possessed the largest
>>> workable supply of titanium ore in the world. So much so that they could
>>> easily afford to use it for submarine hulls as well as whole aircraft
>>> fuselages

>>
>>
>>
>> Um, the Soviet Union didn't have the same kind of budget constraints
>> that we do...or at least did until BushJr came along.
>>
>> Lee
>>

> The Soviet Union didn't exactly have a budget /at all/ for a while
> there. It's why we can buy USSR-made Ti shovels and prybars now.
>
> Dod the USSR ever make a production aircraft out of Ti? I had not heard
> of this, what was it? They probably did some one-offs I'm sure. The
> /cargo flooring/ of one military cargo jet was Ti stamped panels, and
> that was considered insanely expen$$$ive by the rest of the world.
>


Dude, 90% of the SR-71 Blackbird was titanium composite.
Your tax dollars at work.
 
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> As for Ti, it's not particularly the best material for everything; Ti
>> alloy's main advantge is its fatigue resistance--it resists cracking
>> when flexed a lot (this would be really good for a submarine). It also
>> has a somewhat-high melting point, but that's not of a lot of value in
>> this use really.
>> What would be best for a lock and chain (I would think) would be forged
>> (ordinary) carbon steel with diamond dust impregnated into it.

> That would make it pretty resistant to a hacksaw, but I don't think it
> would help much against bolt cutters.


David Kerber wrote:
> I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
> be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
> weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
> still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
> significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
> steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.


Step back and see the whole problem: Titanium cuts quite easily with a
hacksaw - much easier than steel. Disc grinder about the same for both.
Bolt cutter won't help much with Ti. Picking the lock is another way. In
our neighborhood, drunks who kick wheels are a regular and real risk -
much more common than theft. And too, some thefts here are bike locked
only to itself, just carried away.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
In article <[email protected]>, A Muzi <[email protected]>
wrote:

> David Kerber wrote:
> > I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
> > be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
> > weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
> > still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
> > significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
> > steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.

>
> Step back and see the whole problem: Titanium cuts quite easily with a
> hacksaw - much easier than steel.


Well, that depends on the alloy and heat treat levels of the titanium and steel
being compared, as well as the lubrication (if any) being used.

Something to consider: Order some titanium (say CP) from a material supplier, and
some steel (say 1018). If titanium is so easily cut, why are the cutting fees for it
so much higher than when they cut your steel?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:24:10 -0700, Howard Kveck
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, A Muzi <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>> David Kerber wrote:
>> > I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
>> > be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
>> > weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
>> > still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
>> > significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
>> > steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.

>>
>> Step back and see the whole problem: Titanium cuts quite easily with a
>> hacksaw - much easier than steel.

>
> Well, that depends on the alloy and heat treat levels of the titanium and steel
>being compared, as well as the lubrication (if any) being used.
>
> Something to consider: Order some titanium (say CP) from a material supplier, and
>some steel (say 1018). If titanium is so easily cut, why are the cutting fees for it
>so much higher than when they cut your steel?


Dear Howard,

Because . . .

"Compared to steel, titanium alloys offer several advantages. Their
density is only about half that of steel, so parts made from them
weigh roughly half as much as steel parts. Yet their strength exceeds
steel's, and they have twice the elasticity. That makes them ideal for
applications that require flexible materials that don't crack or
rupture. Titanium alloys resist corrosion better than the best
stainless steels. And, like steel, titanium alloys can be readily cast
or forged and are widely available to the industrial market."

"There are drawbacks, however. Most titanium alloys are poor thermal
conductors. Heat generated during cutting doesn't dissipate through
the part and machine table, but tends to concentrate in the cutting
area. The high temperatures - 2000 deg. F in some cases - temper and
dull cutting edges. These dull edges generate even more heat, further
shortening tool life. Cutting temperatures can get so high that chips
sometimes burst into flames."

"Titanium alloys' elasticity, so beneficial to finished parts, makes
them especially difficult to machine. Under cutting pressures, the
"springy" materials move away from the tool. Consequently, the cutting
edges rub rather than cut, particularly when making light cuts. The
rubbing process generates more heat, compounding problems caused by
poor thermal conductivity."

"As a result of the normal cutting process, titanium alloys tend to
workharden. This is especially true when an inappropriate tool is
applied. Instead of cutting the part, the wrong tool "pushes" it,
straining the alloy. As the material moves away from the cutting edge
it deforms plastically rather than elastically. Plastic deformation
increases the material's strength - and, unfortunately, its hardness -
at the point of cut. As the alloy reaches a higher level of hardness
and strength, cutting speeds that were appropriate at the start of the
cut become excessive, and the tool wears dramatically."

"Many shops misunderstand these peculiarities, and take a
trial-and-error approach to machining titanium alloys. They spend
considerable sums on cutting tools, trying to find the ones that work.
Some have even gone out of business as a result. Other shops,
intimidated by the prospector ruining parts worth thousands of
dollars, avoid working with the materials altogether."

"Despite titanium alloys' reputation for toughness, they can be
machined successfully and cost-effectively. Those shops that have
taken the time to learn how to machine the materials, in fact,
consider them a 'piece of cake.'"

http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm

Taking time to learn how to machine titanium means higher charges,
particularly since there's far less demand than for steel cutting.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:24:10 -0700, Howard Kveck
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, A Muzi
> ><[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> David Kerber wrote:
> >> > I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
> >> > be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
> >> > weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
> >> > still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
> >> > significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
> >> > steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.
> >>
> >> Step back and see the whole problem: Titanium cuts quite easily with a
> >> hacksaw - much easier than steel.

> >
> > Well, that depends on the alloy and heat treat levels of the titanium and
> > steel
> >being compared, as well as the lubrication (if any) being used.
> >
> > Something to consider: Order some titanium (say CP) from a material
> > supplier, and
> >some steel (say 1018). If titanium is so easily cut, why are the cutting
> >fees for it
> >so much higher than when they cut your steel?

>
> Dear Howard,
>
> Because . . .
>
> "Compared to steel, titanium alloys offer several advantages. Their
> density is only about half that of steel, so parts made from them
> weigh roughly half as much as steel parts. Yet their strength exceeds
> steel's, and they have twice the elasticity. That makes them ideal for
> applications that require flexible materials that don't crack or
> rupture. Titanium alloys resist corrosion better than the best
> stainless steels. And, like steel, titanium alloys can be readily cast
> or forged and are widely available to the industrial market."
>
> "There are drawbacks, however. Most titanium alloys are poor thermal
> conductors. Heat generated during cutting doesn't dissipate through
> the part and machine table, but tends to concentrate in the cutting
> area. The high temperatures - 2000 deg. F in some cases - temper and
> dull cutting edges. These dull edges generate even more heat, further
> shortening tool life. Cutting temperatures can get so high that chips
> sometimes burst into flames."
>
> "Titanium alloys' elasticity, so beneficial to finished parts, makes
> them especially difficult to machine. Under cutting pressures, the
> "springy" materials move away from the tool. Consequently, the cutting
> edges rub rather than cut, particularly when making light cuts. The
> rubbing process generates more heat, compounding problems caused by
> poor thermal conductivity."
>
> "As a result of the normal cutting process, titanium alloys tend to
> workharden. This is especially true when an inappropriate tool is
> applied. Instead of cutting the part, the wrong tool "pushes" it,
> straining the alloy. As the material moves away from the cutting edge
> it deforms plastically rather than elastically. Plastic deformation
> increases the material's strength - and, unfortunately, its hardness -
> at the point of cut. As the alloy reaches a higher level of hardness
> and strength, cutting speeds that were appropriate at the start of the
> cut become excessive, and the tool wears dramatically."
>
> "Many shops misunderstand these peculiarities, and take a
> trial-and-error approach to machining titanium alloys. They spend
> considerable sums on cutting tools, trying to find the ones that work.
> Some have even gone out of business as a result. Other shops,
> intimidated by the prospector ruining parts worth thousands of
> dollars, avoid working with the materials altogether."
>
> "Despite titanium alloys' reputation for toughness, they can be
> machined successfully and cost-effectively. Those shops that have
> taken the time to learn how to machine the materials, in fact,
> consider them a 'piece of cake.'"
>
> http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm
>
> Taking time to learn how to machine titanium means higher charges,
> particularly since there's far less demand than for steel cutting.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel


Carl, all that stuff is true. When I go to mill or turn titanium, I already know
what speeds, feeds, tool geometries and substrates to use, and I get right on with
the job at hand. No molten tools or base metal, either. I even use plenty of Hanita
end mills. But Andrew was talking about using a *hacksaw*. Besides, the places that
supply and cut material have generally been at it long enough to have an idea how to
go at it (at least I'd hope they aren't doing trial and error after the first few
weeks). They still charge more for cutting titanium than steel. I'd rather mill or
turn titanium than steel any day, though.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:46:07 -0700, Howard Kveck
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:24:10 -0700, Howard Kveck
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, A Muzi
>> ><[email protected]>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> David Kerber wrote:
>> >> > I would think that the biggest advantage of Ti as a chain/lock set would
>> >> > be its weight. You could get just as strong a chain for much less
>> >> > weight than a steel one. Or you could get significantly stronger and
>> >> > still have a somewhat lighter chain, though it would likely be
>> >> > significantly bulkier. After all, Ti is significantly stronger than
>> >> > steel on a weight basis, but not on a volume (size) basis.
>> >>
>> >> Step back and see the whole problem: Titanium cuts quite easily with a
>> >> hacksaw - much easier than steel.
>> >
>> > Well, that depends on the alloy and heat treat levels of the titanium and
>> > steel
>> >being compared, as well as the lubrication (if any) being used.
>> >
>> > Something to consider: Order some titanium (say CP) from a material
>> > supplier, and
>> >some steel (say 1018). If titanium is so easily cut, why are the cutting
>> >fees for it
>> >so much higher than when they cut your steel?

>>
>> Dear Howard,
>>
>> Because . . .
>>
>> "Compared to steel, titanium alloys offer several advantages. Their
>> density is only about half that of steel, so parts made from them
>> weigh roughly half as much as steel parts. Yet their strength exceeds
>> steel's, and they have twice the elasticity. That makes them ideal for
>> applications that require flexible materials that don't crack or
>> rupture. Titanium alloys resist corrosion better than the best
>> stainless steels. And, like steel, titanium alloys can be readily cast
>> or forged and are widely available to the industrial market."
>>
>> "There are drawbacks, however. Most titanium alloys are poor thermal
>> conductors. Heat generated during cutting doesn't dissipate through
>> the part and machine table, but tends to concentrate in the cutting
>> area. The high temperatures - 2000 deg. F in some cases - temper and
>> dull cutting edges. These dull edges generate even more heat, further
>> shortening tool life. Cutting temperatures can get so high that chips
>> sometimes burst into flames."
>>
>> "Titanium alloys' elasticity, so beneficial to finished parts, makes
>> them especially difficult to machine. Under cutting pressures, the
>> "springy" materials move away from the tool. Consequently, the cutting
>> edges rub rather than cut, particularly when making light cuts. The
>> rubbing process generates more heat, compounding problems caused by
>> poor thermal conductivity."
>>
>> "As a result of the normal cutting process, titanium alloys tend to
>> workharden. This is especially true when an inappropriate tool is
>> applied. Instead of cutting the part, the wrong tool "pushes" it,
>> straining the alloy. As the material moves away from the cutting edge
>> it deforms plastically rather than elastically. Plastic deformation
>> increases the material's strength - and, unfortunately, its hardness -
>> at the point of cut. As the alloy reaches a higher level of hardness
>> and strength, cutting speeds that were appropriate at the start of the
>> cut become excessive, and the tool wears dramatically."
>>
>> "Many shops misunderstand these peculiarities, and take a
>> trial-and-error approach to machining titanium alloys. They spend
>> considerable sums on cutting tools, trying to find the ones that work.
>> Some have even gone out of business as a result. Other shops,
>> intimidated by the prospector ruining parts worth thousands of
>> dollars, avoid working with the materials altogether."
>>
>> "Despite titanium alloys' reputation for toughness, they can be
>> machined successfully and cost-effectively. Those shops that have
>> taken the time to learn how to machine the materials, in fact,
>> consider them a 'piece of cake.'"
>>
>> http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm
>>
>> Taking time to learn how to machine titanium means higher charges,
>> particularly since there's far less demand than for steel cutting.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel

>
> Carl, all that stuff is true. When I go to mill or turn titanium, I already know
>what speeds, feeds, tool geometries and substrates to use, and I get right on with
>the job at hand. No molten tools or base metal, either. I even use plenty of Hanita
>end mills. But Andrew was talking about using a *hacksaw*. Besides, the places that
>supply and cut material have generally been at it long enough to have an idea how to
>go at it (at least I'd hope they aren't doing trial and error after the first few
>weeks). They still charge more for cutting titanium than steel. I'd rather mill or
>turn titanium than steel any day, though.


Dear Howard,

Sorry, I didn't spell my point out.

Titanium is, as you originally pointed out, more expensive to cut well
with machine tools than steel.

But titanium is as easy or easier to cut than steel if you're using a
hand hacksaw to destroy a single chain link.

A thief cutting a titanium chain doesn't reach high temperatures, care
about his 99-cent hacksaw blade, or worry about how precisely the
edges of the cut and the finished work match up to a customer's
requirements. He just saws right through it.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] wrote:

>But titanium is as easy or easier to cut than steel if you're using a
>hand hacksaw to destroy a single chain link.


This is very much counter to my own experience. I've been absolutely
amazed at how long it takes to cut through a titanium quick release
skewer bolt - MUCH longer than it would a similar piece of steel.
Similarly, drilling through titanium takes much, much longer than
steel, IME. I think your (snipped) information on cutting/machining
titanium supports my experience. Perhaps a well-schooled thief with a
very sharp hacksaw and appropriate lubrication would do better... but
I suspect most of 'em would be frustated by the effort required to cut
through a U-lock's worth of titanium.

I can't compare how long it takes to saw frames in half though, since
I've never had the occasion to do so. ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:44:18 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>But titanium is as easy or easier to cut than steel if you're using a
>>hand hacksaw to destroy a single chain link.

>
>This is very much counter to my own experience. I've been absolutely
>amazed at how long it takes to cut through a titanium quick release
>skewer bolt - MUCH longer than it would a similar piece of steel.
>Similarly, drilling through titanium takes much, much longer than
>steel, IME. I think your (snipped) information on cutting/machining
>titanium supports my experience. Perhaps a well-schooled thief with a
>very sharp hacksaw and appropriate lubrication would do better... but
>I suspect most of 'em would be frustated by the effort required to cut
>through a U-lock's worth of titanium.
>
>I can't compare how long it takes to saw frames in half though, since
>I've never had the occasion to do so. ;-)
>
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
>http://www.habcycles.com
>Home of the $795 ti frame


Dear Mark,

Steel and "titanium" are alloys, which vary, but . . .

"Hardness. Titanium is a much harder metal than aluminum and
approaches the high hardness possessed by some of the heat-treated
alloy steels. Iodide purity titanium has a hardness of 90 VHN
(Vickers), unalloyed commercial titanium has a hardness of about 160
VHN and when alloyed and heat-treated, titanium can attain hardnesses
in the range of 250 to 500 VHN. A typical commercial alloy of 130,000
psi yield strength might be expected to have a hardness of about 320
VHN or 34 Rockwell C."
http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article126.htm

Here are an amateur's results for testing bike locks and chains (no
titanium):
http://www.slate.com/id/2140083

Somehow I doubt that he was using a very good hacksaw blade.

Here's a single HSS hacksaw blade for $1.09:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=990-0740&PMPXNO=3008770&PARTPG=INLMK32

Here's the common 8-cent carbon blade in a $4 pack of 50 blades:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37155

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> But titanium is as easy or easier to cut than steel if you're using a
>>> hand hacksaw to destroy a single chain link.


Mark Hickey <[email protected] wrote:
>> This is very much counter to my own experience. I've been absolutely
>> amazed at how long it takes to cut through a titanium quick release
>> skewer bolt - MUCH longer than it would a similar piece of steel.
>> Similarly, drilling through titanium takes much, much longer than
>> steel, IME. I think your (snipped) information on cutting/machining
>> titanium supports my experience. Perhaps a well-schooled thief with a
>> very sharp hacksaw and appropriate lubrication would do better... but
>> I suspect most of 'em would be frustated by the effort required to cut
>> through a U-lock's worth of titanium.
>> I can't compare how long it takes to saw frames in half though, since
>> I've never had the occasion to do so. ;-)


[email protected] wrote:
> Steel and "titanium" are alloys, which vary, but . . .
> "Hardness. Titanium is a much harder metal than aluminum and
> approaches the high hardness possessed by some of the heat-treated
> alloy steels. Iodide purity titanium has a hardness of 90 VHN
> (Vickers), unalloyed commercial titanium has a hardness of about 160
> VHN and when alloyed and heat-treated, titanium can attain hardnesses
> in the range of 250 to 500 VHN. A typical commercial alloy of 130,000
> psi yield strength might be expected to have a hardness of about 320
> VHN or 34 Rockwell C."
> http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article126.htm

-snip-

While not an expert, my intuition is that a surface treatment or full
tempering is the difference between Mark's experience (difficult) and my
own ( no problemo) Things I cut easily include handlebars, steerers and
a stem (that was curiosity, not actual work). There is probably a wide
range of hardness from annealed to tempered material so my earlier comments
I haven't cut a Habanero frame either. But milling head tubes is
straightforward with TIN tools and 'aluminum' cutting fluid.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971