Wheel Choices

[Raffy Varona]

I'm currently looking for a new wheelset for my bike. I am currently using the Mavic Ksyrium SL wheelset, but I want an aero wheelset that's lightweight. I don't like to use tubulars because of all the gluing mess. I'm currently looking at the Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clincher, Easton EC90 SL carbon clincher, and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by Raffy Varona .

I'm currently looking for a new wheelset for my bike. I am currently using the Mavic Ksyrium SL wheelset, but I want an aero wheelset that's lightweight. I don't like to use tubulars because of all the gluing mess. I'm currently looking at the Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clincher, Easton EC90 SL carbon clincher, and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

If you're looking at the 303 Firecrest, I'd suggest you instead consider the 404 Firecrest. The aero benefits of the 404 are greater; the weight difference between the two is only 59g (according to Zipp); and there's no price difference (at least according to the last Zipp statements). It's hard to see what benefit the 303 has over the 404, except for slightly less sensitivity to cross winds. At least one statement from a Zipp employee suggested that the target market for the 303 Firecrest wasn't well defined. I would consider the 303 if Zipp changed the prices such that the 303 was significantly cheaper than the 404.

I'd be hesitant to buy the Easton EC90 SL. There have been some issues with Easton hubs as well as the durability of their rims and wheels in general. You can google "EC90 SL wheel problems" and see what you think.

Mavic's Carbones are generally pretty nice wheels. The rims are a bit dated, but they still perform well compared to a lot of rims in the wind tunnel. Getting a wheel set with carbon spokes is a big commitment, but Mavic does have a program you can buy into that allows for cheap replacement of a broken wheel (broken from some means not related to Mavic construction or QA). I frankly think the rear Mavic hub is ****, what with it having a free hub that rides on a delrin busing instead of a bearing, but others have no issue with it. There have been some reports of short life times for those bushings, but that can be dependent on wear you live and the conditions in which you ride.

If you're able to wait a bit, both 3T and Enve are coming out with new CF clinchers. Mercury is also bringing out new wheels, but I can't remember if new clinchers are part of that process.

Perhaps another good option would be to having someone build a custom set of 404 Firecrests with the hubs or your choice. There are a few builders that have access to those rims, and going this route just might net you cheaper wheels with what will likely be better hubs.

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by Raffy Varona .

I'm currently looking for a new wheelset for my bike. I am currently using the Mavic Ksyrium SL wheelset, but I want an aero wheelset that's lightweight. I don't like to use tubulars because of all the gluing mess. I'm currently looking at the Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clincher, Easton EC90 SL carbon clincher, and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi Raffy Varona, here are a couple ...
http://www.williamscycling.com/sys38_clincher.html
http://www.pro-liteoz.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=19

 

[Raffy Varona]

Okay, after months of research, I have narrowed my choices down. 1. Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clincher 2. Reynolds Forty Six/Sixty Six Carbon Clinchers 3. ENVE Composites 65 Carbon Clinchers with DT 240 hubs. I like all three of them, but if anyone has any input on these wheels, how good are they and which one would you get?

 

[alienator]

I'd go with the 404 Firecrests. They've got better aerodynamics than the other two, and their new resin combined with their new brake pads offs some of the best heat management there is for CF clinchers. I have no idea how often you'll be using the wheels or what kind of riding you'll be doing, so my opinion is based on my kind of riding.

 

[Raffy Varona]

Thanks for the input alienator. I'm planning on using the wheel choices for criterium races and a little hill climbing in the mix. Will the Zipp 404 Firecrest CC hold up for hill climbing in your opinion?

 

[alienator]

Yes.

 

[vspa]

Mavic's Carbones are generally pretty nice wheels.  The rims are a bit dated, but they still perform well compared to a lot of rims in the wind tunnel.  Getting a wheel set with carbon spokes is a big commitment, but Mavic does have a program you can buy into that allows for cheap replacement of a broken wheel (broken from some means not related to Mavic construction or QA).  I frankly think the rear Mavic hub is ****, what with it having a free hub that rides on a delrin busing instead of a bearing, but others have no issue with it.  There have been some reports of short life times for those bushings, but that can be dependent on wear you live and the conditions in which you ride.

this Delrin material is some kind of NASA polymer, it comes for example with some electric guitar specific parts - among many other possible uses i guess - but the functioning of this guitar accessory is not near as intense and continued as it is on a free hub, i would also ask for bearings given the choice,

 

[davereo]

Originally Posted by vspa .


this Delrin material is some kind of NASA polymer, it comes for example with some electric guitar specific parts - among many other possible uses i guess - but the functioning of this guitar accessory is not near as intense and continued as it is on a free hub, i would also ask for bearings given the choice,

Delrin is an excellent material for bushings. It is used in industrial pumps and machines among many other uses. Delrin is the trade name of DuPont's version of the polymer. The same folks who supply us with Kevlar. I own some Mavic wheels with the delrin bushing in the free hub. I will post on this site the day the bushing fails along with the length of service.

 

[dhk2]

Delrin is certainly a fine material for lightly-loaded bearings which don't have to operate in a dirty environment. The life will depending where you ride, and how much you coast downhills. I'll bet someone riding on flat, clean roads could get many thousands of miles out of the delrin bearing. Out west, in the mountains, with blowing sand and grit, life should be much shorter.

But I'd be surprised if the Mavic engineers who designed the hub would argue it had equal life than a good ball-bearing freehub. The advantages I see are low cost and light weight, not durability. Doubt the hubmakers like Shimano and Campagnolo, DT and others would be interested in going to this kind of bushing.
.

 

[Raffy Varona]

Would Zipp's 303 and Reynolds's Forty Six carbon clinchers wheelsets be perfect all around wheels?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by dhk2 .

Delrin is certainly a fine material for lightly-loaded bearings which don't have to operate in a dirty environment. The life will depending where you ride, and how much you coast downhills. I'll bet someone riding on flat, clean roads could get many thousands of miles out of the delrin bearing. Out west, in the mountains, with blowing sand and grit, life should be much shorter.

FWIW. I don't think that Delrin ever lived up to the hype it originally received in the 60s ...

• 'my' recollection is that it was the new-and-improved Nylon ...
• at one time, my recollection is that Delrin was described as ([COLOR= #808080]or, perhaps it was an optional fabrication of the specific polymer[/COLOR]) graphite impregnated Nylon ([COLOR= #808080]so, it would have an even lower coefficient of friction than regular Nylon[/COLOR]) + it was ([COLOR= #808080]or, seemed to be to the "casual observer" ... i.e., "me"[/COLOR]) more rigid than regular Nylon ...

Unfortunately, the particular polymer can be subject to degradation ([COLOR= #808080]I suppose that regular Nylon can be readily degraded, too[/COLOR]) when it is used in situations which it might otherwise have seemed ideal for ... when degraded, Delrin becomes brittle ... I suppose that's better than simply disintegrating!

But, those damned French can't seem to acknowledge that Delrin isn't the be-all-and-end-all material ...

• for those who don't know, SIMPLEX used Delrin in some of their components ... where is SIMPLEX, now?

Originally Posted by dhk2 .

But I'd be surprised if the Mavic engineers who designed the hub would argue it had equal life than a good ball-bearing freehub. The advantages I see are low cost and light weight, not durability. Doubt the hubmakers like Shimano and Campagnolo, DT and others would be interested in going to this kind of bushing.

I agree ...

FWIW. If I knew way-back-when what I know now, then I might not have have sold my set of Ksyrium SSC SL wheels BECAUSE I know a $5.00-if-done-during-manufacturing "fix" to the problem which means that the MAVIC engineers probably know how to remedy the dubious material specification, too ...

I can only imagine that some bean counter at MAVIC must figure that the additional money they make when they sell replacement Freehubs greatly outweighs the potential ill-will which the dodgy Freewheel design might engender.

I hope MAVIC survives their embrace of Delrin better than SIMPLEX was able to!

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Raffy Varona .

Would Zipp's 303 and Reynolds's Forty Six carbon clinchers wheelsets be perfect all around wheels?

FWIW. Those seem like pretty exotic wheels for every day use ...

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by alfeng .



FWIW. Those seem like pretty exotic wheels for every day use ...

alfeng, we agree for the second time today....this is a rarity. To me, the question on Zipp303's and Reynolds 46 wheels is like asking "is a Ferrari the perfect car for everyday use"?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by dhk2 .


alfeng, we agree for the second time today....this is a rarity.

I hope that it isn't a sign of the Apocalypse!

 

[alienator]

Would Zipp's 303 and Reynolds's Forty Six carbon clinchers wheelsets be perfect all around wheels?

Depends on what you consider perfect. The 303's would be the better of the two, although there's not much reason for having 303's given the price difference between them and 404's.

 

[Raffy Varona]

I guess my main question should be, which wheelset fulfills all of these criteria? 1. Aerodynamic 2. Stable in crosswinds 3. Lightweight 4. Responsive 5. CARBON CLINCHER. Thank you all for your responses!

 

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by Raffy Varona .

I guess my main question should be, which wheelset fulfills all of these criteria? 1. Aerodynamic
2. Stable in crosswinds 3. Lightweight 4. Responsive 5. CARBON CLINCHER. Thank you all for your responses!

No experience with Reynolds, but for Zipp the 404 clinchers are your answer. Throw in a 303 front for windy days if you want to cut a little cross wind push, but when rolling 20+ the 404s seem to slice through gusty conditions without issue. The weight difference between a set of 404s and 303s is very minimal.

 

[Sky J]

Hi Raffy Varona, you can have a look here, have many carbon lightweight clincher wheels, quality is super! http://www.carbonal.cn/productgrouplist-212420633/Clincher.html

 

[alienator]

To the OP and with respect to the wheels mentioned by Sky J and Yishun Cycling, uhm, you get what you pay for. In this case you wouldn't be paying much, and you won't be getting much. I certainly wouldn't want to put my safety in the hands of a carbon clincher designed and made by some unknown company. If you're going to get a carbon clincher, get one from a company that has actually invested money into developing materials to best manage heat from braking: Zipp, Enve, Reynolds, 3T, and the others we commonly hear about. You can research the history of generic carbon fiber wheels over at Weight Weenies. It's by no means a rosy picture.