Wheel rebuild with shorter spokes?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Dan Cosley, May 25, 2003.

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  1. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    Hi, I'm a first-time wheel builder. I went to the LBS yesterday to get a set of spokes, and spent 5
    hours last night trying to get the wheel laced. No joy -- I am using the 4 rounds system, and can't
    get any of the spokes from the fourth round to the rim. In frustration, after 3 attempts to lace the
    wheel, I look at the old spokes. They seem to be maybe 5-10 mm longer than the new ones.

    My question is: am I doing something wrong, and the shop sold me a usable set of spokes? Or did the
    shop probably sell me spokes that were too short, and I should go back and exchange them?

    Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I am a total naif at this.

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
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  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Dan Cosley writes:

    > Hi, I'm a first-time wheel builder. I went to the LBS yesterday to get a set of spokes, and spent
    > 5 hours last night trying to get the wheel laced. No joy -- I am using the 4 rounds system, and
    > can't get any of the spokes from the fourth round to the rim. In frustration, after 3 attempts to
    > lace the wheel, I look at the old spokes. They seem to be maybe 5-10 mm longer than the new ones.

    You should have gotten the exact same length you had before.

    > My question is: am I doing something wrong, and the shop sold me a usable set of spokes? Or did
    > the shop probably sell me spokes that were too short, and I should go back and exchange them?

    They probably assumed a different cross pattern, assuming they knew anything about it.

    > Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I am a total naif at this.

    Go back to them and ask what they had in mind.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    >Dan Cosley writes:
    >
    >> My question is: am I doing something wrong, and the shop sold me a usable set of spokes? Or did
    >> the shop probably sell me spokes that were too short, and I should go back and exchange them?
    >
    >They probably assumed a different cross pattern, assuming they knew anything about it.

    Turns out the LBS guy just measured wrong.

    >> Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I am a total naif at this.
    >
    >Go back to them and ask what they had in mind.

    He just said that it was easier to measure the spokes once they were off the wheel (I wish he'd have
    taken off spokes the first trip to measure) and they traded them in for a new set of an appropriate
    length. I'm mildly annoyed since I spent a lot of time trying last night (they said it'd take hours
    the first time, soo...) and had to make the extra trip, but I do now have a functional wheel.

    Thanks for the reply.

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
  4. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Dan Cosley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:
    > >Dan Cosley writes:
    > >
    > >> My question is: am I doing something wrong, and the shop sold me a usable set of spokes? Or did
    > >> the shop probably sell me spokes that were too short, and I should go back and exchange them?
    > >
    > >They probably assumed a different cross pattern, assuming they knew anything about it.
    >
    > Turns out the LBS guy just measured wrong.
    >
    > >> Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I am a total naif at this.
    > >
    > >Go back to them and ask what they had in mind.
    >
    > He just said that it was easier to measure the spokes once they were off the wheel (I wish he'd
    > have taken off spokes the first trip to measure) and they traded them in for a new set of an
    > appropriate length. I'm mildly annoyed since I spent a lot of time trying last night (they said
    > it'd take hours the first time, soo...) and had to make the extra trip, but I do now have a
    > functional wheel.
    >
    > Thanks for the reply.
    >
    > -- Dan

    The next one will get easier, then the one after that even easier, and so on...

    Keep it up!

    Mike
     
  5. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Mike S. wrote:
    >
    >The next one will get easier, then the one after that even easier, and so on...

    Let's hope. At least next time, I'll know about the correct spoke length (and also to check the
    obvious -- I had a bad case of "expert reverence", which should be easier to avoid in the future.

    >Keep it up!

    Too poor not to. :)

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
  6. Ant

    Ant Guest

    [email protected] (Dan Cosley) wrote in message
    >
    > Too poor not to. :)

    huh?

    i find that buying wheelsets is cheaper than buying the parts for them, hands-down. it would be
    cheaper, if you wanted to do your own wheels, to buy the cheapo mail-order wheelset, break it down,
    and build it up again! (pro-built wheels with an expert's reputation on the line cost more,
    obviously, a la sheldon, vecchio, et al)

    then again, if you are just replacing a rim, and can reuse the hubs, spokes, etc, then yes. much
    much cheaper (save labor $, and just buy a rim instead of a whole wheel)

    cheap wheel parts.. siiiigh. one day....
     
  7. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, ant wrote:
    >[email protected] (Dan Cosley) wrote in message
    >>
    >> Too poor not to. :)
    >
    >huh?
    >
    >i find that buying wheelsets is cheaper than buying the parts for them, hands-down...
    >
    >then again, if you are just replacing a rim, and can reuse the hubs, spokes, etc, then yes. much
    >much cheaper (save labor $, and just buy a rim instead of a whole wheel)

    I was just replacing the spokes this time; the hub and rim were fine, but I'd been having persistent
    spoke breakage. It was about $18 at the LBS. I toyed with the idea of a new wheel, but couldn't
    quite justify it (especially since I'd have been tempted to convert from freewheel to freehub -- it
    turned out I had a broken axle, too -- and so I'd have needed to add on a cassette).

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >, if you wanted to do your own wheels, to buy the cheapo mail-order wheelset, break it down, and
    >build it up again!

    No need to "break it down", factory-built wheels are always under-tensioned, just increase the
    tension, stress relieve, and true.
     
  9. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Peter Cole <[email protected]> writes:

    >> If you wanted to do your own wheels, to buy the cheapo mail-order wheelset, break it down, and
    >> build it up again!

    > No need to "break it down", factory-built wheels are always under-tensioned, just increase the
    > tension, stress relieve, and true.

    Of course... but

    There is a belief that a machine built wheel has bad karma and that it can only be removed by
    un-spoking the wheel. People believe almost anything if you say it right.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  10. Ant

    Ant Guest

    > "ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > >, if you wanted to do your own wheels, to buy the cheapo mail-order wheelset, break it down, and
    > >build it up again!

    "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > No need to "break it down", factory-built wheels are always under-tensioned, just increase the
    > tension, stress relieve, and true.

    right. i was not talking in terms of effiency, but in terms of gaining experience. at this stage in
    my bike work career, im often more interested in the latter than the former. i know there are others
    out there in the same boat.

    cheers
     
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