Wheel sizes for P38



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D

Don

Guest
In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still friendly
to my short legs, I am now considering a
P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on ths
small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.

Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?

As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light) but
would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as the
Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike? I
love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the engine,
let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold Rush
(faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.

Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
B

Ben Fox

Guest
Don, If you had told me your x-seam I could probably tell you if a med frame would fit. I have a med
frame with the 20" front wheel option and the 700 rear wheel. My x-seam is 40.5 ,I'm 5'7" and I'm
slightly over the max weight for this bike,until Spring that is. as far as the speed difference ,a
lot is the engine,but a friend of mine has a Zack and you're right they are slow. You can really
tell it downhill,my p-38 even without fairing walks away from his zach like he's got brakes on. No
doubt about it ,the p-38 is a fast bike. Ben fox "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
D

Don

Guest
In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still friendly
to my short legs, I am now considering a
P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on ths
small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.

Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?

As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light) but
would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as the
Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike? I
love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the engine,
let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold Rush
(faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.

Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
B

Ben Fox

Guest
Don, If you had told me your x-seam I could probably tell you if a med frame would fit. I have a med
frame with the 20" front wheel option and the 700 rear wheel. My x-seam is 40.5 ,I'm 5'7" and I'm
slightly over the max weight for this bike,until Spring that is. as far as the speed difference ,a
lot is the engine,but a friend of mine has a Zack and you're right they are slow. You can really
tell it downhill,my p-38 even without fairing walks away from his zach like he's got brakes on. No
doubt about it ,the p-38 is a fast bike. Ben fox "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
B

Ben Fox

Guest
Cletus and Robert, Cletus, I also had a Giro for a 1 week period and had fast tires and wheels on
it, from my V-2 ,t and it was no where as fast as my V-2. the P-38 I bought after I returned the
Giro to my LBS was even faster than the V-2. The BB for all 3 of these bikes is about the same
height,I don't know why i was so slow on Giro and you are as fast on it as your P-38. maybe the
Voyager p-38 is just a lot slower than the regular one? Bob, this guy is too short for a med. frame
P-38, no way is he going to fit the Aero or visions you mentioned. Ben Fox [look Tom S., I
capitalized my last name!]

"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would
> buy a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on
> personal preference).
>
> --
> Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> > friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> > P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them
> > (no time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit
> > on ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
> >
> > Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much
> > speed/handling benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What
> > about the 700c rear option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
> >
> > As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> > would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> > but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> > the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably
> > more efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a
> > new bike? I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it
> > is the engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a
> > borrowed Gold Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on
> > both bikes.
> >
> > Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
D

Don

Guest
Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other
questions I asked.

Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.

Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid design.
There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain mean. I
also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and Lightning
designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.

Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
For whatever reason, it takes most riders 30 days or so to get up to maximum speed on a P-38. A lot
of riders find it surprisingly slow on their first few rides.

Also, it helps a LOT to be dialed into a P-38 ... setting it up to fit your body is VERY
important IMHO.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Ben Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cletus and Robert, Cletus, I also had a Giro for a 1 week period and had fast tires and
wheels
> on it, from my V-2 ,t and it was no where as fast as my V-2. the P-38 I bought after I returned
> the Giro to my LBS was even faster than the V-2. The BB for all 3 of these bikes is about the same
> height,I don't know why
i
> was so slow on Giro and you are as fast on it as your P-38. maybe the Voyager p-38 is just a lot
> slower than the regular one? Bob, this guy is too short for a med. frame P-38, no way is he going
> to fit the Aero or visions you mentioned. Ben Fox [look Tom S., I capitalized my last name!]
>
>
> "Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would
> > buy a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on
> > personal preference).
> >
> > --
> > Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> > > friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> > > P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them
> > > (no time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight
> > > limit on ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
> > >
> > > Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much
> > > speed/handling benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What
> > > about the 700c rear option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
> > >
> > > As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The
> > > P38 would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising
> > > light) but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the
> > > same bike as the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different
> > > and probably more efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to
> > > warrant buying a new bike? I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart
> > > ass points out it is the engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium
> > > Merlin, and a borrowed Gold Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a
> > > considerable margin on both bikes.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
> >
>
 
B

Ben Fox

Guest
Cletus and Robert, Cletus, I also had a Giro for a 1 week period and had fast tires and wheels on
it, from my V-2 ,t and it was no where as fast as my V-2. the P-38 I bought after I returned the
Giro to my LBS was even faster than the V-2. The BB for all 3 of these bikes is about the same
height,I don't know why i was so slow on Giro and you are as fast on it as your P-38. maybe the
Voyager p-38 is just a lot slower than the regular one? Bob, this guy is too short for a med. frame
P-38, no way is he going to fit the Aero or visions you mentioned. Ben Fox [look Tom S., I
capitalized my last name!]

"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would
> buy a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on
> personal preference).
>
> --
> Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> > friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> > P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them
> > (no time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit
> > on ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
> >
> > Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much
> > speed/handling benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What
> > about the 700c rear option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
> >
> > As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> > would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> > but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> > the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably
> > more efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a
> > new bike? I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it
> > is the engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a
> > borrowed Gold Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on
> > both bikes.
> >
> > Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
D

Don

Guest
Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other
questions I asked.

Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.

Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid design.
There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain mean. I
also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and Lightning
designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.

Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
For whatever reason, it takes most riders 30 days or so to get up to maximum speed on a P-38. A lot
of riders find it surprisingly slow on their first few rides.

Also, it helps a LOT to be dialed into a P-38 ... setting it up to fit your body is VERY
important IMHO.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Ben Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cletus and Robert, Cletus, I also had a Giro for a 1 week period and had fast tires and
wheels
> on it, from my V-2 ,t and it was no where as fast as my V-2. the P-38 I bought after I returned
> the Giro to my LBS was even faster than the V-2. The BB for all 3 of these bikes is about the same
> height,I don't know why
i
> was so slow on Giro and you are as fast on it as your P-38. maybe the Voyager p-38 is just a lot
> slower than the regular one? Bob, this guy is too short for a med. frame P-38, no way is he going
> to fit the Aero or visions you mentioned. Ben Fox [look Tom S., I capitalized my last name!]
>
>
> "Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would
> > buy a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on
> > personal preference).
> >
> > --
> > Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> > > friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> > > P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them
> > > (no time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight
> > > limit on ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
> > >
> > > Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much
> > > speed/handling benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What
> > > about the 700c rear option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
> > >
> > > As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The
> > > P38 would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising
> > > light) but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the
> > > same bike as the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different
> > > and probably more efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to
> > > warrant buying a new bike? I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart
> > > ass points out it is the engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium
> > > Merlin, and a borrowed Gold Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a
> > > considerable margin on both bikes.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
> >
>
 
C

Cletus D . Lee

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not answer any
> of the other questions I asked.
Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you can speak with at LCD.

>
> Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
> sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.

You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the rest of us can
feel tall. ;-)
>
> Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?

About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect on the seat height. I can
measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro. Putting a 349 on the Med P-38 will
not change the seat height by more than a an inch.

> The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After
> noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a
> stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just
> plain mean.

I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take links our or add links to a
chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty stupid too.

Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And this was a disappointment.

> I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
> handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and
> Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.

Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat position. Most of the body mass
is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the 45%:55% seen on the Lightning.
The Giro also has a longer wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
>
> Frustrated but I have not given up yet.

Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride before you abandon it for a
slower bike.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
C

Cletus D . Lee

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not answer any
> of the other questions I asked.
Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you can speak with at LCD.

>
> Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
> sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.

You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the rest of us can
feel tall. ;-)
>
> Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?

About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect on the seat height. I can
measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro. Putting a 349 on the Med P-38 will
not change the seat height by more than a an inch.

> The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After
> noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a
> stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just
> plain mean.

I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take links our or add links to a
chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty stupid too.

Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And this was a disappointment.

> I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
> handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and
> Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.

Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat position. Most of the body mass
is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the 45%:55% seen on the Lightning.
The Giro also has a longer wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
>
> Frustrated but I have not given up yet.

Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride before you abandon it for a
slower bike.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
You vertically challenged guys are in deep doo doo when you get older. I used to be a shade under 6
feet ... and now I'm just under 5'10. That's because the human spine compresses over the course of
74 years . The good news is my X-seam is still 42.5 .... it's disproportionate to my height because
my legs did not compress. I ride a M-L GRR (Ti Rush).

Also, you just might be pleasantly surprised that a small P-38 will fit you OK with a bit of
tweaking... just my hunch. - Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Cletus D. Lee"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> > inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not answer
> > any of the other questions I asked.
> Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you
can
> speak with at LCD.
>
> >
> > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> > calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was
> > not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
>
> You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the
rest
> of us can feel tall. ;-)
> >
> > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?
>
> About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect
on
> the seat height. I can measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro.
Putting
> a 349 on the Med P-38 will not change the seat height by more than a an
inch.
>
> > The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After
> > noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are
> > a stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is
> > just plain mean.
>
> I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take links
our
> or add links to a chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty
> stupid too.
>
> Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And
this
> was a disappointment.
>
> > I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some
riders love the
> > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > significantly affected.
>
> Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat
position.
> Most of the body mass is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the
> 45%:55% seen on the Lightning. The Giro also has a
longer
> wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
> >
> > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
>
> Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride before
you
> abandon it for a slower bike.
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
You vertically challenged guys are in deep doo doo when you get older. I used to be a shade under 6
feet ... and now I'm just under 5'10. That's because the human spine compresses over the course of
74 years . The good news is my X-seam is still 42.5 .... it's disproportionate to my height because
my legs did not compress. I ride a M-L GRR (Ti Rush).

Also, you just might be pleasantly surprised that a small P-38 will fit you OK with a bit of
tweaking... just my hunch. - Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Cletus D. Lee"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> > inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not answer
> > any of the other questions I asked.
> Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you
can
> speak with at LCD.
>
> >
> > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> > calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was
> > not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
>
> You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the
rest
> of us can feel tall. ;-)
> >
> > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?
>
> About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect
on
> the seat height. I can measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro.
Putting
> a 349 on the Med P-38 will not change the seat height by more than a an
inch.
>
> > The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After
> > noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are
> > a stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is
> > just plain mean.
>
> I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take links
our
> or add links to a chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty
> stupid too.
>
> Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And
this
> was a disappointment.
>
> > I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some
riders love the
> > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > significantly affected.
>
> Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat
position.
> Most of the body mass is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the
> 45%:55% seen on the Lightning. The Giro also has a
longer
> wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
> >
> > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
>
> Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride before
you
> abandon it for a slower bike.
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -
 
C

Cletus D . Lee

Guest
I have a Medium P-38/F40/Voyager. I bought it spec'd with a 559 rear wheel and a 349 front wheel
with a suspension fork. My X-seam is 41. I tried a Large and it seemed too long and I had difficulty
reaching the ground when stopped. So, at Tim's suggestion I opted for the MED with the 349 front
wheel. To fit me the boom is at it's furthermost extension. I have no 'wiggle room' to go for any
longer seat to pedal distance. So, anyone much taller than me at 5'7" probably could not ride this
bike. With the bike in this configuration, I can reach the ground OK but not comfortably. So, anyone
much shorter than me at 5'7" probably could not ride this bike either.

I was not impressed by the speed of the P-38 with the suspension fork and the 349 front wheel. About
9 months after I got the bike, I trashed the suspension fork and was forced to replace it. Realizing
the 406 non-suspension fork would not raise my seat height any more than the 349 with suspension, I
replaced the 349 with a 406. Maybe it was the dampening effect of the suspension, maybe it was the
349 wheel, but with a non suspension 406 wheel, I noticed an immediate increase in performance.

Now, if I have convinced you that a P-38 will work, I ask, why limit yourself to a P-38? My other
bike is a Bacchetta Giro. It weighs about 3 lbs more than the P-38 Voyager, it has heavy cheap low
pressure Kenda Kwest 1.5" tires and was immediately as fast as the Lightning. And all this at a
price that is just about half that of a Lightning P-38 with decent components.

I have a Std size Bachetta Giro. At 5'7" I am only moderately comfortable with the seat to ground
distance. It I were shorter, the seat adjustment ('up hill') would make that worse. I probably would
have more adjustment flexibility on a Small size Giro. There is no heel strike issues for me on the
Giro. There is heel strike on the Lightning. IIRC, the Giro will support riders up to 250#.

In summary, I will keep the Lightning. It is my travel bike that packs into a suitcase. At some
point, I will use it more as an F-40 (but with my skin not LCD's Lycra cover. The Giro is getting
all the duty now. It is my commuter, my 'go fast' bike and my non-flying touring bike.

In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
>

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
C

Cletus D . Lee

Guest
I have a Medium P-38/F40/Voyager. I bought it spec'd with a 559 rear wheel and a 349 front wheel
with a suspension fork. My X-seam is 41. I tried a Large and it seemed too long and I had difficulty
reaching the ground when stopped. So, at Tim's suggestion I opted for the MED with the 349 front
wheel. To fit me the boom is at it's furthermost extension. I have no 'wiggle room' to go for any
longer seat to pedal distance. So, anyone much taller than me at 5'7" probably could not ride this
bike. With the bike in this configuration, I can reach the ground OK but not comfortably. So, anyone
much shorter than me at 5'7" probably could not ride this bike either.

I was not impressed by the speed of the P-38 with the suspension fork and the 349 front wheel. About
9 months after I got the bike, I trashed the suspension fork and was forced to replace it. Realizing
the 406 non-suspension fork would not raise my seat height any more than the 349 with suspension, I
replaced the 349 with a 406. Maybe it was the dampening effect of the suspension, maybe it was the
349 wheel, but with a non suspension 406 wheel, I noticed an immediate increase in performance.

Now, if I have convinced you that a P-38 will work, I ask, why limit yourself to a P-38? My other
bike is a Bacchetta Giro. It weighs about 3 lbs more than the P-38 Voyager, it has heavy cheap low
pressure Kenda Kwest 1.5" tires and was immediately as fast as the Lightning. And all this at a
price that is just about half that of a Lightning P-38 with decent components.

I have a Std size Bachetta Giro. At 5'7" I am only moderately comfortable with the seat to ground
distance. It I were shorter, the seat adjustment ('up hill') would make that worse. I probably would
have more adjustment flexibility on a Small size Giro. There is no heel strike issues for me on the
Giro. There is heel strike on the Lightning. IIRC, the Giro will support riders up to 250#.

In summary, I will keep the Lightning. It is my travel bike that packs into a suitcase. At some
point, I will use it more as an F-40 (but with my skin not LCD's Lycra cover. The Giro is getting
all the duty now. It is my commuter, my 'go fast' bike and my non-flying touring bike.

In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
>

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would buy
a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on personal
preference).

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
R

Robert Siegel

Guest
I owned and loved a P-38 XT ... but ... if I bought a new SWB tomorrow morning I probably would buy
a Vision R-65/64 or possibly a Bacchetta (anywhere from a Giro to an Aero, depending on personal
preference).

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my continuing search for a bike faster than my Haluzak Hybrid Race Leprechaun but still
> friendly to my short legs, I am now considering a
> P38. My Xseam is just below what Lightning recommends for a medium frame. I have emailed them (no
> time for them to respond yet) to see how iron clad their numbers are. The weight limit on
> ths small frame excludes me. Too much muscle.
>
> Heel strike aside (pretty darn used to it with the Zak) can anyone tell me how much speed/handling
> benefit I would gain from the front wheel 406 option vs the standard 349? What about the 700c rear
> option vs the 559? Any idea how much higher the seat will be?
>
> As I mentioned, I do not think heel strike could be any worse than with the Leprechaun. The P38
> would maybe a pound or two lighter than the Zak (the Hybrid Race Leprechaun is surprising light)
> but would have the same wheel combo if I went 349 X 559. To me that is too much the same bike as
> the Zak. I understand it is slightly lighter and the body position is different and probably more
> efficient on the P38 but is that enough difference (speed & climbing)to warrant buying a new bike?
> I love the comfort of my Zak but it is a dog. And before any smart ass points out it is the
> engine, let me just say I have used the same engine on a DF titanium Merlin, and a borrowed Gold
> Rush (faired) and can out-climb and out-speed the Zak by a considerable margin on both bikes.
>
> Thanks for any help. I have run several searches but did not find anything useful.
 
D

Don

Guest
Hi Don,

Here's my 2 cents to try to help. Watch out for that x-seam size. "My" large frame, early 1990's,
P-38 was recently bought by my 5' 7" wife who fit the x-seam dimension and test rode it with
satisfaction. I cautioned her to try it again with her SPD riding shoes after changing out the
pedals. Oh no! -- so she bought it without the retest. I now have a wonderful P-38 to ride. Try to
ride the size frame you intend to buy!

By the way, it appears that the P-38 weight ranges are to protect the lugged tube frame from metal
fatigue. You will note that owners are cautioned against very high pressure tires except on
suspension models. Therefore, a rear suspension bike could increase the frames acceptance of your
small excess weight and avoid the cost of a custom P-38.

Have you looked into getting lower rolling resistance tires for your fine Haluzak. I have, in three
instances, found that going to smoother, higher pressure, narrower and taller (and more expensive)
tires has changed the rolling resistance much more than the weight change from a Bike-E to a P-38.

The Bike-E, identical to the one my wife rode, just wouldn't roll. Newly released 100 psi tires made
a wonderful difference. They made up for the difference between her 120 and my 200 lbs.

Now, the situation is reversed on our P-38's; my narrow racing tire 700c x 23 machine coasts away
from her touring 700c x 28 tire P-38 with fairing.

Best of luck to you. We are sure happy with our P-38s.
 
D

Don

Guest
Hi Don,

Here's my 2 cents to try to help. Watch out for that x-seam size. "My" large frame, early 1990's,
P-38 was recently bought by my 5' 7" wife who fit the x-seam dimension and test rode it with
satisfaction. I cautioned her to try it again with her SPD riding shoes after changing out the
pedals. Oh no! -- so she bought it without the retest. I now have a wonderful P-38 to ride. Try to
ride the size frame you intend to buy!

By the way, it appears that the P-38 weight ranges are to protect the lugged tube frame from metal
fatigue. You will note that owners are cautioned against very high pressure tires except on
suspension models. Therefore, a rear suspension bike could increase the frames acceptance of your
small excess weight and avoid the cost of a custom P-38.

Have you looked into getting lower rolling resistance tires for your fine Haluzak. I have, in three
instances, found that going to smoother, higher pressure, narrower and taller (and more expensive)
tires has changed the rolling resistance much more than the weight change from a Bike-E to a P-38.

The Bike-E, identical to the one my wife rode, just wouldn't roll. Newly released 100 psi tires made
a wonderful difference. They made up for the difference between her 120 and my 200 lbs.

Now, the situation is reversed on our P-38's; my narrow racing tire 700c x 23 machine coasts away
from her touring 700c x 28 tire P-38 with fairing.

Best of luck to you. We are sure happy with our P-38s.
 
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