Wheel Story

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Paolo Sant'Ambr, Feb 18, 2003.

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  1. Here is an interesting wheel story:

    Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.

    He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic. Rides,
    spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru says 'we
    shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true every 60
    or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong, trailing
    spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this Boutique set,
    ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem solved and much
    money made.

    My experience, same chain, different store:

    Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to shop
    to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break, I fix.
    Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard, front and
    rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again, miss the truck.
    Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.

    Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.

    Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does not
    match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel, first ride
    all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read RBT, take two
    evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm and 100 so miles.

    Paolo Sant'Ambrogio Santa Monica, CA
     
    Tags:


  2. Wasn't there a StarTrek episode about everything repeating over and over, only just a slight bit
    differently each time? That's the feeling I get reading about your spoke/wheel issues. Or maybe you
    live in some mystery spot where the normal laws of the universe don't apply, or perhaps it's like in
    Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind when the aliens can get into houses by causing all the screws in
    the ducting to come loose.

    But sounds like there may be a happy end to the story-

    > Read RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    > and 100 so miles.

    Sounds like things are working out better now. Wish you the best of luck-

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReaction.com

    "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    >
    > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru
    > says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true
    > every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong,
    > trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this
    > Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem
    > solved and much money made.
    >
    > My experience, same chain, different store:
    >
    > Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to
    > shop to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break, I
    > fix. Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard, front
    > and rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again, miss the
    > truck. Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.
    >
    > Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    > similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.
    >
    > Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does
    > not match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel,
    > first ride all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read
    > RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    > and 100 so miles.
    >
    > Paolo Sant'Ambrogio Santa Monica, CA
     
  3. Joel Rose

    Joel Rose Guest

    Tough days! I recently purchased a Colnago Asso with Ambrosio Balance rims and I truly hope I do not
    have the same results. The 'much money' spent on my ride has left 'little money' in case I have to
    replace my wheel set.

    Hope your spoke problems are gone....

    Joel

    "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    >
    > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru
    > says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true
    > every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong,
    > trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this
    > Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem
    > solved and much money made.
    >
    > My experience, same chain, different store:
    >
    > Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to
    > shop to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break, I
    > fix. Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard, front
    > and rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again, miss the
    > truck. Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.
    >
    > Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    > similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.
    >
    > Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does
    > not match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel,
    > first ride all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read
    > RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    > and 100 so miles.
    >
    > Paolo Sant'Ambrogio Santa Monica, CA
     
  4. Patrick Lamb

    Patrick Lamb Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > Wasn't there a StarTrek episode about everything repeating over and over, only just a slight bit
    > differently each time? That's the feeling I get reading about your spoke/wheel issues. Or maybe
    > you live in some mystery spot where the normal laws of the universe don't apply, or perhaps it's
    > like in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind when the aliens can get into houses by causing all the
    > screws in the ducting to come loose.
    >
    > But sounds like there may be a happy end to the story-
    >
    >
    >>Read RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    >>and 100 so miles.
    >
    >
    > Sounds like things are working out better now. Wish you the best of luck-

    I think you're thinking of Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." (Note positive mention of a Murray in
    r.b.t!) I've taken to checking my wheels on those occasions when I let a shop touch my bike to make
    sure they didn't decide to true the wheel (loosening all spokes a quarter turn in the process).
    Makes me want to smack some "experts."

    But not you, Mike!

    Pat
    --
    Apologies to those easily confused. Address is spam-resistant. Correct email address like pdlamb
    'round-about comcast point net.
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    >
    > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru
    > says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true
    > every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong,
    > trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this
    > Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem
    > solved and much money made.
    >
    > My experience, same chain, different store:
    >
    > Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to
    > shop to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break, I
    > fix. Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard, front
    > and rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again, miss the
    > truck. Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.
    >
    > Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    > similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.
    >
    > Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does
    > not match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel,
    > first ride all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read
    > RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    > and 100 so miles.
    >
    > Paolo Sant'Ambrogio Santa Monica, CA

    There is a certain book that you should read before you take your business to a different competent
    bike shop. Sheesh. You'd think these shops would just go away, but not so long as people throw money
    at their sorry asses I guess.

    Seriously, get a copy of The Bicycle Wheel. There's no reason for that kind of crap in this day and
    age. My cutomers would wrap the thing around my neck if I sent out wheels like that.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    > >
    > > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    > >
    > > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru,
    > > guru says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out
    > > of true every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced
    > > wrong, trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy
    > > this Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too.
    > > Problem solved and much money made.
    > >
    > > My experience, same chain, different store:
    > >
    > > Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to
    > > shop to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break,
    > > I fix. Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard,
    > > front and rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again,
    > > miss the truck. Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.
    > >
    > > Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    > > similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.
    > >
    > > Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does not
    > > match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel, first
    > > ride all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read RBT, take
    > > two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm and 100 so
    > > miles.

    "Joel Rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tough days! I recently purchased a Colnago Asso with Ambrosio Balance rims and I truly hope I do
    > not have the same results. The 'much money' spent on my ride has left 'little money' in case I
    > have to replace my wheel set.
    >
    > Hope your spoke problems are gone....

    Uh, the story wasn't about Ambrosio rims. It was about an incompetent lying a**hole in some
    "bike shop".

    Your rims are fine. Who built your wheels?

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  7. paolo sant'ambrogio wrote:
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    >
    > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru
    > says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true
    > every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong,
    > trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this
    > Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem
    > solved and much money made.

    We can't help you if you don't give us all of the information...what kind of handlebar tape were
    you using?

    The reason I ask is that handlebar tape choice has about as much to do with spoke breakage problems
    as rim choice does! ;-)

    Spoke breakage is usually caused by poor wheelbuilding technique, but can occasionally be the result
    of faulty spokes or hub problems, or sometimes abusive riding habits or overloading...

    ...but anybody who tells you that one rim is more prone to spoke breakage than another similar rim
    is full of used food.

    The question of which way the trailing spokes face is also basically irrelevant to spoke breakage.

    Sheldon "Don't Believe Everything You Hear" Brown
    +----------------------------------------------------+
    | The two most common elements in the Universe are | hydrogen and stupidity. --Harlan Ellison |
    +----------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  8. Ronald

    Ronald Guest

    Sounds like my story, i also had a lot of problems with handbuilds from shops. Almost went to
    boutique wheels but luckely desided (also influenced by RBT) to try build my own set. Best wheels i
    ever owned, should have done it before. Sadly a lot of people deside on boutique wheels after one
    or two bad experiences with handbuilds and it's hard to find a shop which build good wheels. Two of
    the three shops i got my wheels from before are concidered to be good shops but the wheels i got
    weren't up to it.

    "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.
    >
    > He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys Mavic.
    > Rides, spokes go loose and break. Back at same LBS, they say sorry we'll get our wheel guru, guru
    > says 'we shall build using spoke prep'. Ride and ride, wheel has loose spokes and goes out of true
    > every 60 or so miles. Next wheel guru, same LBS chain, different store says wheel laced wrong,
    > trailing spokes on wrong side. Next week spoke are loose; back to LBS. They say just buy this
    > Boutique set, ok will buy Boutique. Now riding buddy is happy as Lance and faster too. Problem
    > solved and much money made.
    >
    > My experience, same chain, different store:
    >
    > Want to use MA2's to replaced crashed and bent MA40's, find a pair out of sate, pay to ship to
    > shop to lace to hubs. 36 three cross. First ride spoke break. OK, I fix, ride more spoke break, I
    > fix. Ride fast down Stunt Rd. and a truck makes a left in front of me. On the brakes hard, front
    > and rear. Panic, break, rear slides, reduce pressure on rear, rear get traction again, miss the
    > truck. Keep descending and realize that wheel has tacoed.
    >
    > Back to LBS, I cannot fix this, MA2 is gone LBS says and we have this Campy Strada Omega that is
    > similar. Ok, I pay $75 for rim spoke and lacing.
    >
    > Ride on rollers, spoke breaks, I fix. Ride and ride wheel is OK, but the anodized Campy does
    > not match the MA2. Find pair of MA2's from shop in Europe. This time I build my first wheel,
    > first ride all spokes too loose, have to abort ride after 10 mi., barely make it home. Read
    > RBT, take two evenings to build wheel, increase tension, wheel pretty good still inside .5mm
    > and 100 so miles.
    >
    > Paolo Sant'Ambrogio Santa Monica, CA
     
  9. joel-<< Tough days! I recently purchased a Colnago Asso with Ambrosio Balance rims and I truly hope
    I do not have the same results.

    it's not the rim, the rims are fine. It's the build..

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Paulo-<< He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys
    Mavic. Rides, spokes go loose and break.

    Many build wheels but not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...

    Wheelbuilding is not brain surgery but ya gotta do it right.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. H. M. Leary

    H. M. Leary Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    > Paulo-<< He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys
    > Mavic. Rides, spokes go loose and break.
    >
    > Many build wheels but not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...
    >
    > Wheelbuilding is not brain surgery but ya gotta do it right.
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    snip

    Its not brain or transplant surgery as Peter says...

    I bought Jobsts Brands book on wheelbuilding, read it, priced out the equipment required, and
    decided...

    LET PETER DO IT!

    HAND

    --
    ³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
     
  12. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "paolo sant'ambrogio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here is an interesting wheel story:
    >
    > Riding buddy buys Colnago with Record 10. Rides 120 mi. a week, rear wheel Ambrosio 32 breaks
    > spokes, fixed; but problem repeats and spokes go loose on subsequent rides.

    Loose spokes mean insufficient spoke tension. Breaking spokes means no stress relieving. Both are
    symptoms of a bad build, both are easy to correct. Check out the FAQ.
     
  13. Mark Boyd

    Mark Boyd Guest

    On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, H. M. Leary wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > Campagnolo) wrote:
    >
    > > Paulo-<< He complains, LBS says the Ambrosio rim are shit, why don't you use Mavic? Ok, he buys
    > > Mavic. Rides, spokes go loose and break.
    > >
    > > Many build wheels but not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...
    > >
    > > Wheelbuilding is not brain surgery but ya gotta do it right.
    > >
    > > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > snip
    >
    > Its not brain or transplant surgery as Peter says...
    >
    > I bought Jobsts Brands book on wheelbuilding, read it, priced out the equipment required, and
    > decided...

    > LET PETER DO IT!

    Good advice if you are afraid of doing it yourself, but, as PETER says, it really isn't as hard as
    it seems it would be. The real hurdle isn't the equipment cost, it is getting yourself
    psychologically ready to build wheels. After you do you first set, you'll wonder why you thought it
    was so hard!

    I bought Jobst's book, for $20 or so, and spent about $50 for the equipment I needed. I saved far
    more than that on the first set of wheels I built!

    Mark <http://www.cs.unca.edu/~boyd/bicycling.html
     
  14. Jdtpumps

    Jdtpumps Guest

    I have had the same problems with custom wheels. Unless you have a really good LBS, building your
    own wheels is the answer to these problems. In addition to priming yourself with Jobst's book, get
    Gerd Schraner's book, it takes a slightly different approach and takes some of the tech scariness
    out of it. The tools to build a wheel are the exact same tools needed to maintain a wheel, so the
    initial expense is quickly amortized by the avoided cost of trips to the LBS . Before you know it,
    you'll be doing most of your own maintenance, which, to me at least, is one of the appeals of
    cycling. BT
     
  15. Andymorris

    Andymorris Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    >
    > ...but anybody who tells you that one rim is more prone to spoke breakage than another similar rim
    > is full of used food.
    >

    I remember very cheap U section rims in the 80's that were so crap you couldn't get enough tension
    in them for Posh spice to ride to the manicurist.

    --
    Andy Morris

    AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

    Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
     
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