Wheel Troubles on new Trek Touring Bike

[Mark Pichot]

I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came out
of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of the
spokes were completely loose. After I re-trued the wheel on the road and
rode it another thousand miles to finish my tour, it was re-tensioned by my
local bike shop. It failed about 150 miles later. I weigh about 175 lbs
and carry at most 50 lbs while touring.

This wheel is covered under warranty, but my confidence is shaken after this
experience. Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I just
unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
sufficiently strong for loaded touring?

 

[Evan Evans]

"Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
> with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
> Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
> places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came out
> of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of the
> spokes were completely loose. After I re-trued the wheel on the road and
> rode it another thousand miles to finish my tour, it was re-tensioned by my
> local bike shop. It failed about 150 miles later. I weigh about 175 lbs
> and carry at most 50 lbs while touring.
>
> This wheel is covered under warranty, but my confidence is shaken after this
> experience. Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I just
> unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
> sufficiently strong for loaded touring?


i have the same wheels on my mountain bike w/ the same result. My bon.
crank is also ****. I now try to stear away from anything bontrager.

 

[daveornee]

I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came out
of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of the
spokes were completely loose. After I re-trued the wheel on the road and
rode it another thousand miles to finish my tour, it was re-tensioned by my
local bike shop. It failed about 150 miles later. I weigh about 175 lbs
and carry at most 50 lbs while touring.

This wheel is covered under warranty, but my confidence is shaken after this
experience. Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I just
unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
sufficiently strong for loaded touring?

I have heard that story with Bontrager Fairlanes and Mavericks; but I have both and never experienced any problems in over 9,000 miles of loaded touring with Bontager Fairlanes. I weigh a little more than you and more touring loads are about the same. My wheels are hand built with DT Competition Double Butted 14/15 spokes on XTR hubs. I see that Rivendell still lists the Bontragers in their catalog. I understand that Rivendell will be getting the 700C version of the Velocity Synergy for future use.
I used those rims on Mountain Bicycle size with very good results.

I recently built some 36 spoke Mavic A719 wheels. They don't have the offset spoke bed, but they are very strong.

I suspect the Trek Wheel problem comes from a poor build... and maybe some poor quality control. Bontrager Fairlane rims are not the smoothest or the best finished rims I have used. Do your wheels use quality double butted 14/15 spokes?

 

[Mark Pichot]

"daveornee" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Mark Pichot Wrote:
> > I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike)
> > equipped
> > with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
> > Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at
> > several
> > places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came
> > out
> > of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of
> > the
> > spokes were completely loose. After I re-trued the wheel on the road
> > and
> > rode it another thousand miles to finish my tour, it was re-tensioned
> > by my
> > local bike shop. It failed about 150 miles later. I weigh about 175
> > lbs
> > and carry at most 50 lbs while touring.
> >
> > This wheel is covered under warranty, but my confidence is shaken after
> > this
> > experience. Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I
> > just
> > unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
> > sufficiently strong for loaded touring?
>
> I have heard that story with Bontrager Fairlanes and Mavericks; but I
> have both and never experienced any problems in over 9,000 miles of
> loaded touring with Bontager Fairlanes. I weigh a little more than you
> and more touring loads are about the same. My wheels are hand built
> with DT Competition Double Butted 14/15 spokes on XTR hubs. I see that
> Rivendell still lists the Bontragers in their catalog. I understand
> that Rivendell will be getting the 700C version of the Velocity Synergy
> for future use.
> I used those rims on Mountain Bicycle size with very good results.
>
> I recently built some 36 spoke Mavic A719 wheels. They don't have the
> offset spoke bed, but they are very strong.
>
> I suspect the Trek Wheel problem comes from a poor build... and maybe
> some poor quality control. Bontrager Fairlane rims are not the
> smoothest or the best finished rims I have used. Do your wheels use
> quality double butted 14/15 spokes?
>
>
> --
> daveornee
>

I think my wheels are built with single-gauge 14 spokes (I'll check tonight
and reply tomorrow if wrong). I don't know if they were hand-built or not
(maybe someone out there knows what is standard practice at Trek?). They
use Shimano LX hubs.

Mark

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

mark-<< The rear wheel, which uses
Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. >><BR><BR>
<< Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I just
unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
sufficiently strong for loaded touring? >><BR><BR>


Good enough components but undoubtedly a pisspoor build, not by a person.
Insist that the new wheel be at least checked, trued, dished, rounded, tension
checked and stress relieved by a GOOD wheelbuilder at the shop. DO NOT depend
on the manufacturer knowing anything about wheelbuilding.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[John McGraw]

Hi Mark & Evan
Beneath your 2 posts & 1 by David Reuteler, You'll find my post from
rbt 21Dec02 about my Bontrager rim & various other Trek problems. You
may find it interesting.

[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
> > with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
> > Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
> > places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came out
> > of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of the
> > spokes were completely loose. After I re-trued the wheel on the road and
> > rode it another thousand miles to finish my tour, it was re-tensioned by my
> > local bike shop. It failed about 150 miles later. I weigh about 175 lbs
> > and carry at most 50 lbs while touring.
> >
> > This wheel is covered under warranty, but my confidence is shaken after this
> > experience. Is this a known problem with this particular rim, or was I just
> > unlucky and stuck with a poorly built wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels
> > sufficiently strong for loaded touring?
>
>
> i have the same wheels on my mountain bike w/ the same result. My bon.
> crank is also ****. I now try to stear away from anything bontrager.

David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John McGraw <[email protected]> wrote:
> : I really wish I could get a good RR
> : OCR rim w/ eyelets. I used Bontrager Fairlane OCR rim, for the RR
> : wheel that I built a year ago. What an unmitigated crock of **** it
> : was. Trek should hang their head in shame & cry to sell anything as
> : worthless as that. In fact, it's worse that worthless. It might
> : be dangerous.
>
> ok, i'll bite. what was it about the fairlanes you hated so much?

OK Sit down. Hold on. Here goes.
If memory serves, there were about 4 things wrong:

1. One entire flange was misaligned 3mm higher or lower than the other
flange, depending how you look @ it.

2. At the weld, 1 of the flanges was misaligned 2mm from one side of
the weld to the other. @ the inside of the FLGs, between the rim
"hooks" & the web, the weld bead had not been ground down. The bead
actually protruded beyond the theoretical inside dimension of the
hooks. I used a Dramel tool to carefully grind this down & shape the
hooks to their proper profile.

3. The weld quality sucked. There was porosity, overlap, & either a
crack or lack of fusion @ 1 FLG on the machined side. I'm going dye
penetrate test the area to determine the depth of the indication & if
it's a crack or lack of fusion, before & if I use the rim again. I
didn't notice this until after a few hundred miles & brake pads had
ground dirt into indication, creating a dark line.

4. The rim was 3mm out laterally @ the weld w/o spoke tension. I was
able to pull it in to be w/in 1mm w/ tension. I could have pulled it
closer in than that, but @ the expense of even tension. I felt even
tension was more important that the alignment. The radial alignment
appeared to be worse than lateral @ the weld bead, but I have no way
to measure it due to the total lack of any reliable reference (See #1
& #2 above). Unfortunately I was in a hurry to have a rear wheel to
use, so I didn't have time to return the rim, rather than lace it up &
ride it.

Now if that doesn't qualify as unmitigated ****, I don't know what
does!
This is the sort of ca ca I would expect to find on Chinese made
Huffy!
Further more, I owned a Bontrager Mt. Bike, (The above road rim is on
a Specialized) & I never really had a satisfactory experience w/ TREK
trying to correct several problems it arrived with. The Bontrager was
stolen this past summer & I would like to replace it w/ Fisher Sugar,
but I'll never buy a TREK bike again. At least not until they become
less Microsoft & Enron like.

Good luck, John

 

[Mark Pichot]

Thanks to all who responded to my post.

I decided to have my wheel rebuilt with a Mavic A719 rim and DT 14/15 double
butted spokes. The dealer I bought the bike from will rebuild the wheel
free-of-charge under warranty; I just have to pay to upgrade to the Mavic
rim and the double butted spokes. Not a bad deal, all in all.

Regarding the quality of Bontrager components, it turns out that my Trek 520
was laced with them when I purchased the bike in May. Some were of
miserable quality, others unsuitable for a loaded touring bike. Thus far, I
have replaced the Bontrager Select K tires after about 200 miles (almost no
puncture resistance, including three punctures in one 10-mile stretch of
relatively clean city streets riding an unloaded bike), the Bontrager CRZ
saddle (uncomfortable and unsuitable for extended time in the saddle), and
now the rear Maverick rim. The bike also came with a Bontrager seatpost
which I had to beat on with a deadblow hammer to free it for a saddle tilt
adjustment. That leaves me with the Bontrager stem, which thus far seems to
be acceptable.

From now on I'll steer clear of anything with the Bontrager name attached.
I will also have to think hard before buying another Trek bike, given what I
consider to be their breech of trust by putting such poor quality components
on the Trek 520.

 

[Badger_South]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:18:26 -0500, "Mark Pichot" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>The bike also came with a Bontrager seatpost
>which I had to beat on with a deadblow hammer to free it for a saddle tilt
>adjustment.

I posted on this in rbm - it was weird, as though the grid 'teeth' were
welded to each other or something. I kept searching for a set screw.
Definitely not good for adjustments during the ride.

-B

>From now on I'll steer clear of anything with the Bontrager name attached.
>I will also have to think hard before buying another Trek bike, given what I
>consider to be their breech of trust by putting such poor quality components
>on the Trek 520.

 

[Gordon Hamachi]

"Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
> with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
> Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at several
> places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel previously came out
> of true during loaded touring, badly enough that about one-third of the
> spokes were completely loose.

Mark:

Both of the symptoms you describe are characteristic of overtightened
spokes. Generally, rims cracking around the spoke eyelets mean that
the spokes are too tight.

Strangely, a large number of spokes coming loose is another symptom of
overtightened spokes. Too-tight spokes put the wheel into an unstable
state, where stress can cause it to quickly deform into a "taco" or
"potato chip" shape. Cases of extreme deformity are easy to
recognize, but this can also happen in a milder form which looks just
like you describe: a wheel coming badly out of true, with many loose
spokes.

This second bit of information isn't widely known. When my wheel
mysteriously went out of true with many loose spokes, the great
Sheldon Brown flippantly advised me to simply tighten up my spokes.
This only made the problem worse, and the next time it went out of
true my rim was destroyed when its weld joint broke .

I have no knowledge of Bontrager rims, but am confident that your
problems were caused by an improperly built wheel.

 

[daveornee]

"Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
<NIP>

Mark:

Both of the symptoms you describe are characteristic of overtightened
spokes. Generally, rims cracking around the spoke eyelets mean that
the spokes are too tight.

Strangely, a large number of spokes coming loose is another symptom of
overtightened spokes. Too-tight spokes put the wheel into an unstable
state, where stress can cause it to quickly deform into a "taco" or
"potato chip" shape. Cases of extreme deformity are easy to
recognize, but this can also happen in a milder form which looks just
like you describe: a wheel coming badly out of true, with many loose
spokes.

This second bit of information isn't widely known. When my wheel
mysteriously went out of true with many loose spokes, the great
Sheldon Brown flippantly advised me to simply tighten up my spokes.
This only made the problem worse, and the next time it went out of
true my rim was destroyed when its weld joint broke.

I have no knowledge of Bontrager rims, but am confident that your
problems were caused by an improperly built wheel.

What would you call over tensioned for a 36 spoke wheel and this specific rim?
Although I agree with your last statement that the problems were caused by an inproperly built wheel, I strongly disagree with your initial suggestions that it came from over tensioned spokes.
I ride the same rims on my loaded touring bicycle, also 36 spoke, and also built on Shimano Mountain Bicycle hubs. I have ridden over 9,000 loaded touring miles on these rims with 140 kgf tension in the right side spokes. Most shopsand wheel building machines won't put that much tension in the spokes because it is harder to do and they see no benefit and only fears about spoke wind-up and rounding nipples.
I am not the only one that uses this kind of tension and not only on these rims. There is another local loaded long distance toruing rider that uses 135 kgf on a 36 spoke Mavic CXP-33. He road accross the USA and back this this summer fully loaded without any wheel difficulties. He doesn't own a car and teaches school. He uses the same wheels to commute to work and do all his shopping. He has over 10,000 miles on the CXP-33 36 hole rims.
I keep hearing these suggestions about over tensioned spokes cracking rims. I have yet to crack a rim on any wheel I have built. I never use less than 100 kgf tension on any spoke except left rear. I have ridden over 200,000 miles on wheels I have built for myself. I have also built over 500 wheels for others using the same tensioning. I have corrected tension, tension balanced, and stress relieved at least another 500 wheels.
I estimate that my stress relieving temporary tension is 200 to 250 kgf. I have yet to crack a new rim when stress relieving. I suggest that the failures involved are fatigue related, but that too high spoke tension was not the cause.

 

[[email protected]]

Gordon Hamachi writes:

>> I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike)
>> equipped with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel,
>> which uses Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by
>> cracking at several places on the rim around the spoke eyelets.
>> This wheel previously came out of true during loaded touring, badly
>> enough that about one-third of the spokes were completely loose.

> Both of the symptoms you describe are characteristic of overtightened
> spokes. Generally, rims cracking around the spoke eyelets mean that
> the spokes are too tight.

Cracks are a symptom of bad rims, ones that have thick anodizing or do
use only eyelets without sockets. If this were not the case, wheels
with fewer spokes would all crack, their tension needing to be
proportionally higher than a 36-spoke wheel. This is especially true
for less than 24 spoke wheels that are fairly common.

> Strangely, a large number of spokes coming loose is another symptom of
> overtightened spokes. Too-tight spokes put the wheel into an unstable
> state, where stress can cause it to quickly deform into a "taco" or
> "potato chip" shape.

Unless the wheel collapses, how do you propose excess tension will
cause individual spokes to loosen? This doesn't sound right to me.
Can you explain?

> Cases of extreme deformity are easy to recognize, but this can also
> happen in a milder form which looks just like you describe: a wheel
> coming badly out of true, with many loose spokes.

Are you referring to a wheel in use, one that will pass between the
brake pads and "close coupled" fork and frame? I don't understand
what you mean by extreme deformity. Apparently the wheel in question
was being ridden or 1/3 the spokes could not have loosened.

> This second bit of information isn't widely known. When my wheel
> mysteriously went out of true with many loose spokes, the great
> Sheldon Brown flippantly advised me to simply tighten up my spokes.
> This only made the problem worse, and the next time it went out of
> true my rim was destroyed when its weld joint broke.

What do you mean by "great Sheldon Brown"? How did the weld joint
fail from tightening looses spokes? This is beginning to sound like a
Grimm fairy tale.

> I have no knowledge of Bontrager rims, but am confident that your
> problems were caused by an improperly built wheel.

I suspect that was obvious from the start. So what else is new?

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:06:12 -0700, Gordon Hamachi wrote:

> "Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike) equipped
>> with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
>> Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by cracking at
>> several places on the rim around the spoke eyelets. This wheel
>> previously came out of true during loaded touring, badly enough that
>> about one-third of the spokes were completely loose.
>
> Mark:
>
> Both of the symptoms you describe are characteristic of overtightened
> spokes.

I have seen an over-tightened wheel taco, and, yes, a bunch of spokes came
loose. However, you could not ride such a wheel, since it also
goes out of true by over an inch each side. So, the fact that the spokes
came loose during a tour could not be blamed on over-tightening. The
wheel was probably well under-tensioned, leading to several loose spokes
on the left side. This is common with machine-built wheels, and is no
mystery.

> Generally, rims cracking around the spoke eyelets mean that the
> spokes are too tight.

No again. This is a failed rim.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

 

[Tim McNamara]

"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> writes:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:06:12 -0700, Gordon Hamachi wrote:
>
>> "Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>> I have a four month old Trek 520 (a classic-style touring bike)
>>> equipped with 36-spoke Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel,
>>> which uses Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by
>>> cracking at several places on the rim around the spoke eyelets.
>>> This wheel previously came out of true during loaded touring,
>>> badly enough that about one-third of the spokes were completely
>>> loose.
>>
>> Both of the symptoms you describe are characteristic of
>> overtightened spokes.
>
> I have seen an over-tightened wheel taco, and, yes, a bunch of
> spokes came loose. However, you could not ride such a wheel, since
> it also goes out of true by over an inch each side. So, the fact
> that the spokes came loose during a tour could not be blamed on
> over-tightening. The wheel was probably well under-tensioned,
> leading to several loose spokes on the left side. This is common
> with machine-built wheels, and is no mystery.

To speak theoretically and at the risk of muddying the waters, if I've
understood Jobst correctly the wheel *could* have been overtensioned
and come out of true under hard braking, just like overtensioned
wheels come out of true during stress relieving. However, I'd have
expected that to happen early rather than late in the experience of
riding the bike- like on the first couple of rides rather than in the
middle of a tour.

However, from the available description, I tend to think the wheel
came out of true because the rim failed rather than from being overly
tight. With high-dish wheels (e.g., 8/9/10 speed on 130 mm OLN hubs),
almost the entire radial load is supported on one-half og the
spokes. It's like riding an 18 spoke wheel even though it looks like a
36 spoke one.

>> Generally, rims cracking around the spoke eyelets mean that the
>> spokes are too tight.
>
> No again. This is a failed rim.

Sure sounds like it. IIRC these rims do not have nipple sockets or
eyelets and are anodized. A recipe for faiure.

 

[daveornee]

<SNIP>
<SNIP>

However, from the available description, I tend to think the wheel
came out of true because the rim failed rather than from being overly
tight. With high-dish wheels (e.g., 8/9/10 speed on 130 mm OLN hubs),
almost the entire radial load is supported on one-half og the
spokes. It's like riding an 18 spoke wheel even though it looks like a
36 spoke one.
<SNIP>
Sure sounds like it. IIRC these rims do not have nipple sockets or
eyelets and are anodized. A recipe for faiure.[/QUOTE]

The Trek touring wheel is built on Shimano Mountain Deore hub with 135 Over Locknut Dimmension. The Offset Spoke bed of the Bontrager Maverick/Fairlane also helps share some more of the load onto the left side spokes. These rims have eyelets and the anodizing is a very thin layer of clear. These are the rims that Rivendell still is using when they build wheels for touring and other 700C applications.
However, I think Rivendell has not been too happy with the quality because they are looking into a 700C version of the Velocity Synergy.... maybe as a replacement.
The original poster is replacing this rim with a Mavic A719 and DT Competition DB 14/15 spokes. I think these are well reasoned choices. A719 has eyelets and sockets. It has a thin clear anodizing layer. It doesn't have the offset spoke bed, but still can be built to handle virtually any touring load, if built properly. The quality control on Mavic rims is better then the quality control of many models of Bontrager rims.... especially the Fairlane and Maverick models in 700C. Maybe as an exception that proves the rule, I have over 9,000 loaded touring miles on my Bontrager Fairlanes without any problems.

 

[Bruce M. Binder]

"Mark Pichot" <[email protected]> wrote...

> I have a four month old Trek 520 ... equipped with 36-spoke
> Bontrager Maverick wheels. The rear wheel, which uses
> Bontrager's OSB (Offset Spoke Bed), recently failed by
> cracking at several places on the rim around the spoke
> eyelets. ... Is this a known problem with this particular
> rim, or was I just unlucky and stuck with a poorly built
> wheel? Are 36-spoke wheels sufficiently strong for loaded
> touring?

Same bike, same wheels, same problem. It was last year's 520.
However, I never had a problem with the spokes becoming loose
before this failure. Just one day in the middle of a tour, the
wheel was out of true and inspection showed multiple cracks
around the eyelets and the in the sidewalls adjacent to the
spokes. I had about 5000 miles on the bike/wheels when it
happened.

--
Bruce
___ __ __ ___
( ,)( \/ )( ,)
) ,\ ) ( ) ,\
(___/(_/\/\_)(___/ Bruce M. Binder [email protected]

 

[David Damerell]

Mark Pichot <[email protected]> wrote:
>miserable quality, others unsuitable for a loaded touring bike. Thus far, I
>have replaced the Bontrager Select K tires after about 200 miles (almost no
>puncture resistance, including three punctures in one 10-mile stretch of
>relatively clean city streets riding an unloaded bike),

We took these on the End to End. The good news is that in a thousand miles
we had only one puncture from road debris; the bad news is that one of the
other punctures was caused by the cloth covering the bead detatching for a
4" length of tyre, which of course shredded the tube beyond repair (we had
spares, of course).

This was rather worrying, since the spare tyre was of the same type, and
this is one of the few wide (35mm) near-slick tyres easily available. I
shall certainly report here if the two now on the bike suffer a similar
failure.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!

 

[Jay Beattie]

"daveornee" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <SNIP>
> <SNIP>
>
> However, from the available description, I tend to think the
wheel
> came out of true because the rim failed rather than from being
overly
> tight. With high-dish wheels (e.g., 8/9/10 speed on 130 mm OLN
hubs),
> almost the entire radial load is supported on one-half og the
> spokes. It's like riding an 18 spoke wheel even though it looks
like a
> 36 spoke one.
> <SNIP>
> Sure sounds like it. IIRC these rims do not have nipple
sockets or
> eyelets and are anodized. A recipe for faiure.

<snip>

Gee, I hope this is not a recipe for failure. I just abandoned
Mavic and built a couple of Aerohead OC wheels this weekend.
These rims have no eyelets, and they are anodized. I only have
about fifty miles on one wheel, and the other on is waiting for a
bike. So it is obviously too early to talk about longevity. But
I must say that they were a pleasure to build and that I got them
up to tension without binding or stripping nipples -- about 100
kgf left and 130 (IIRC) kgf right. None of the problems I
encountered with the one-eyelet MA3 at that tension. (BTW, the
Aeroheads replaced two anodized Open SUPs that cracked and
herniated their spoke sockets -- I have a third one, an Open 4
CD, that did the same thing and needs a new rim). As for he OP's
problems, if it were over-tension, the wheel would have tacoed
under the first hard brake load. It sounds to me like the wheel
was under tensioned, which is the usual case with pre-fab wheels.
In fact, with the modern pre-fab wheels, under tension plus
LocTite seems to be the standard design. -- Jay Beattie.

 

[daveornee]

"daveornee" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <SNIP>
> <SNIP>
>
> However, from the available description, I tend to think the
wheel
> came out of true because the rim failed rather than from being
overly
> tight. With high-dish wheels (e.g., 8/9/10 speed on 130 mm OLN
hubs),
> almost the entire radial load is supported on one-half og the
> spokes. It's like riding an 18 spoke wheel even though it looks
like a
> 36 spoke one.
> <SNIP>
> Sure sounds like it. IIRC these rims do not have nipple
sockets or
> eyelets and are anodized. A recipe for faiure.

<snip>

Gee, I hope this is not a recipe for failure. I just abandoned
Mavic and built a couple of Aerohead OC wheels this weekend.
These rims have no eyelets, and they are anodized. I only have
about fifty miles on one wheel, and the other on is waiting for a
bike. So it is obviously too early to talk about longevity. But
I must say that they were a pleasure to build and that I got them
up to tension without binding or stripping nipples -- about 100
kgf left and 130 (IIRC) kgf right. None of the problems I
encountered with the one-eyelet MA3 at that tension. (BTW, the
Aeroheads replaced two anodized Open SUPs that cracked and
herniated their spoke sockets -- I have a third one, an Open 4
CD, that did the same thing and needs a new rim). As for he OP's
problems, if it were over-tension, the wheel would have tacoed
under the first hard brake load. It sounds to me like the wheel
was under tensioned, which is the usual case with pre-fab wheels.
In fact, with the modern pre-fab wheels, under tension plus
LocTite seems to be the standard design. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay,

Please be more careful in your cutting and attributing.

The only thing that I contributed to the above was <SNIP>, <SNIP> and my name. You removed my response which was refuting some of the same things you are.

 

[Jay Beattie]

"daveornee" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Jay Beattie Wrote:
> > "daveornee" <[email protected]>
> > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > <SNIP>
> > > <SNIP>
> > >
> > > However, from the available description, I tend to think
the
> > wheel
> > > came out of true because the rim failed rather than from
being
> > overly
> > > tight. With high-dish wheels (e.g., 8/9/10 speed on 130 mm
OLN
> > hubs),
> > > almost the entire radial load is supported on one-half og
the
> > > spokes. It's like riding an 18 spoke wheel even though it
looks
> > like a
> > > 36 spoke one.
> > > <SNIP>
> > > Sure sounds like it. IIRC these rims do not have nipple
> > sockets or
> > > eyelets and are anodized. A recipe for faiure.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Gee, I hope this is not a recipe for failure. I just
abandoned
> > Mavic and built a couple of Aerohead OC wheels this weekend.
> > These rims have no eyelets, and they are anodized. I only
have
> > about fifty miles on one wheel, and the other on is waiting
for a
> > bike. So it is obviously too early to talk about longevity.
But
> > I must say that they were a pleasure to build and that I got
them
> > up to tension without binding or stripping nipples -- about
100
> > kgf left and 130 (IIRC) kgf right. None of the problems I
> > encountered with the one-eyelet MA3 at that tension. (BTW,
the
> > Aeroheads replaced two anodized Open SUPs that cracked and
> > herniated their spoke sockets -- I have a third one, an Open
4
> > CD, that did the same thing and needs a new rim). As for he
OP's
> > problems, if it were over-tension, the wheel would have
tacoed
> > under the first hard brake load. It sounds to me like the
wheel
> > was under tensioned, which is the usual case with pre-fab
wheels.
> > In fact, with the modern pre-fab wheels, under tension plus
> > LocTite seems to be the standard design. -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
> Jay,
>
> Please be more careful in your cutting and attributing.
>
> The only thing that I contributed to the above was <SNIP>,
<SNIP> and
> my name. You removed my response which was refuting some of
the same
> things you are.

Sorry about that. I think matters were complicated by my evil
newsreader. In fact, I am perfect, and technology is solely
responsible for anything wrong I have ever (apparently) done. --
Jay Beattie.