Wheel truing

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Psycholist, May 6, 2003.

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  1. Psycholist

    Psycholist Guest

    I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.

    In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't produce
    a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm wondering if
    a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is there something
    less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?

    Thanks, Bob C.
     
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  2. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura stand - actually preferred it to the
    Park. If all you're doing is truing, use your brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick
    on your bike.

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic
    wheel
    > truing. I don't build wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good
    tool
    > for truing up my wheels when they need it. I live in an area with very rough roads and they take a
    > beating.
    >
    > In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    > produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    > wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    > there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?
    >
    > Thanks, Bob C.
     
  3. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

    psycholist writes:

    > I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    > wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    > live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.
    >
    > In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    > produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    > wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    > there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?

    With patience, you could "produce a good, true wheel" while it's still mounted in the dropouts; so
    I'm at a loss to understand what the Minoura stand didn't do for you. What do you need that it and a
    wheel gauge don't provide?
     
  4. kh6zv9

    kh6zv9 Guest

    psycholist <[email protected]> wrote:
    : I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    : wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    : live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.

    : In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    : produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    : wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    : there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?

    : Thanks, Bob C.

    It is not the stand that produces the quality wheel build. It is the builders experience. The truing
    stand is just a tool to make the job a bit easier.

    --------------------------------
    Bob Masse' [email protected]
    --------------------------------
     
  5. Gary Young

    Gary Young Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    > wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    > live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.
    >
    > In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    > produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    > wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    > there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?
    >
    Maybe you need a dishing tool, instead of a new stand. What is it you don't like about the Minoura
    stand? I find it frustratingly flexible, but still capable of building up a round and true wheel. I
    doubt the Park consumer stand is much better, although it does come with a dishing tool.
     
  6. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Bob C? writes furtively:

    > I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    > wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    > live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.

    Rough roads do not make untrue wheels. At best the destroy rims if the tire n=bottoms, usually
    causing a snake bite flat as well. I suspect your wheels are poorly built if that is your
    experience. I don't understand your protest of "I don't build wheels and I'm not going to." Could
    you explain this comment?

    > In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    > produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    > wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    > there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?

    I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results. Because I fixed and built wheels
    for some of my riding companions, a couple of them gave me truing stands that they had a nd were not
    using. I just use it to hold wheels and sight across a probe. As with many things, it's the operator
    that counts the most. Build your own wheels but learn about it first and you may change your mind
    about wheel building and bumpy roads.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  7. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura stand - actually preferred it to
    > the Park. If all you're doing is truing, use
    your
    > brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
    >
    I've got one of them Minoura stands that's so old, it won't even set up straight. Its not the stand,
    its the wrench.

    Mike
     
  8. Russell Yim

    Russell Yim Guest

    I find that inexpensive wheel truing stands are much too unstable, and are about as helpful to
    truing wheels as those chain cleaning gadgets are to cleaning a chain...which is to say they don't
    function very well. The wheel held in the dropouts, with the brake pads as guides is more than
    adequate for the job of "basic" wheel truing, i.e. straight and round enough to be more than
    servicable, with less than a millimeter's worth of deviation. You don't need a dishing tool
    either...just flip the wheel around in the frame, and measure any difference in position.

    As others have stated, if you are having problems with your wheels staying true, it is not because
    of bad roads, it is because of poorly tensioned spokes...they're too loose, not balanced, not stress
    relieved, etc.. A well built wheel, even one that get so-called heavy abuse, pretty much never goes
    out of true.
     
  9. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Mike S. <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura stand - actually preferred it to
    > > the Park. If all you're doing is truing, use
    > your
    > > brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
    > >
    > I've got one of them Minoura stands that's so old, it won't even set up straight. Its not the
    > stand, its the wrench.

    Same here. Back around 1982 one of the MO outfits had a package deal consisting of the Minoura
    stand, dishing tool, and "The Bicycle Wheel" all for about $30! I've been using them all for 20+
    years now.

    Art Harris
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, Russell Yim wrote:
    > I find that inexpensive wheel truing stands are much too unstable, and are about as helpful to
    > truing wheels as those chain cleaning gadgets are to cleaning a chain...which is to say they don't
    > function very well. The wheel held in the dropouts, with the brake pads as guides is more than
    > adequate for the job of "basic" wheel truing, i.e. straight and round enough to be more than
    > servicable, with less than a millimeter's worth of deviation. You don't need a dishing tool
    > either...just flip the wheel around in the frame, and measure any difference in position.
    >

    [snip]

    If you do want a dishing tool you can make your own; details on my web site cycling page.

    AC

    --
    <<|
    | http://www.acampbell.org.uk/cycling/
    _________ ,___o / \ __________ _\ <;_ / \ OCD Cycloclimbing ___________ (_)/ (_) / \
    http://www.ocd.org.uk
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  11. John Everett

    John Everett Guest

    On Tue, 6 May 2003 22:56:10 -0400, "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    >wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    >live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.
    >
    >In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    >produce a good, true wheel.

    I've build a number of wheels and I don't own a truing stand nor dishing tool. I build and true
    rears in the rear triangle of a bike and fronts in an old fork which I mount in my work stand by the
    steerer tube. I check dishing on a flat surface with a machinists square.

    John "It's a poor workman who blames his tools" Everett

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    >I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't build
    >wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
    >live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.

    A well built wheel does not need periodic truing unless you bottom out and damage the rim. In which
    case you will need fatter tires or more air in your tires.

    >In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    >produce a good, true wheel.

    How good a truing job you do has more to do with the mechanic than with the stand. I owned the
    Minoura stand and it worked fine. The only bad thing I could say about it is that it was
    lightweight and moved around a bit more than I liked. If I had the space, I would have screwed it
    down to a bench.

    >I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm wondering if a Park "consumer"
    >stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is there something less expensive
    >that will help me do a quality truing job?

    You can just flip your bike over and true on the bike. Just get a good spoke wrench. I would also
    recommend getting "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. That way you can build good wheels that don't
    need truing all the time.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  13. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

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    middle of singular cotton thread as springs in a mattress with another horizontal layer on the other
    side. this may also be available in a synthetic. works well. a skull cap of poly material, see DIY
    in bike.tech also cools by reflecting the rays and wicking off the hair.this in swfla which is now
    wonderfully at 100 from 10am on... ask the local police. one of the better t's i found in a thrift
    was a kansas detective's(??) T. and only god knows how hot it might be in kansas.
     
  14. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    I treid the Park but I much prefer the Minoura method of being able to move the 'feelers' in
    infinitesimal increments by turning the knobs. I can not only find a high spot, but the highest spot
    of the high spot very easily. I find it is a bit flimsy, and the vertical truing mechanism is a bit
    annoying, but the stand stays centered pretty well. I'm thinking about using one of the holes on the
    base to bolt it to my workbench, or maybe a 2x8.

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:p[email protected]...
    > > Mike S. <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > > I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura
    stand -
    > > > > actually preferred it to the Park. If all you're doing is truing,
    use
    > > > your
    > > > > brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
    > > > >
    > > > I've got one of them Minoura stands that's so old, it won't even set
    up
    > > > straight. Its not the stand, its the wrench.
    > >
    > > Same here. Back around 1982 one of the MO outfits had a package deal consisting of the Minoura
    > > stand, dishing tool, and "The Bicycle Wheel"
    all
    > > for about $30! I've been using them all for 20+ years now.
    > >
    > > Art Harris
    > >
    > Someone actually GAVE me mine. I've been thinking about upgrading to a
    Park
    > Professional stand, but can't seem to find a reason to spend the $$.
    >
    > Mike
     
  15. ALL truing stands are basically the same thing; an off bike fork that can be adjusted for different
    axle lengths, and a "feeler". As long as it holds the wheel securlye and doesn't have a lot of flex
    or play, it'll work.

    I have the Minora Workman "Pro" and love it. I intend to get an inexpensive dial indicator to mount
    on it so I won't have to deal with the scraper/guage.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  16. Psycholist

    Psycholist Guest

    "I don't build wheels and I'm not
    > going to." Could you explain this comment?

    Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially the drivetrain. I keep it
    lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ... and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have a
    job and a family. What time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
    read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The Bicycle Wheel. No slam
    intended. That's just the way it is.

    You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are and that you're THE
    expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads won't
    tend to cause a wheel to come out of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic
    and reason.

    As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore. It arrived with a device
    that you could use to make sure the stand was properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted.
    I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the way to start
    getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of true itself.

    I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect anyone in a newsgroup to be
    able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.

    Bob C.

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Bob C? writes furtively:
    >
    > > I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel truing. I don't
    > > build wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they
    > > need it. I live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.
    >
    > Rough roads do not make untrue wheels. At best the destroy rims if the tire n=bottoms, usually
    > causing a snake bite flat as well. I suspect your wheels are poorly built if that is your
    > experience. I don't understand your protest of "I don't build wheels and I'm not going to." Could
    > you explain this comment?
    >
    > > In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap product and couldn't
    > > produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm
    > > wondering if a Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is
    > > there something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?
    >
    > I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results. Because I fixed and built wheels
    > for some of my riding companions, a couple of them gave me truing stands that they had a nd were
    > not using. I just use it to hold wheels and sight across a probe. As with many things, it's the
    > operator that counts the most. Build your own wheels but learn about it first and you may change
    > your mind about wheel building and bumpy roads.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  17. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "I don't build wheels and I'm not
    > > going to." Could you explain this comment?
    >
    > Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially
    the
    > drivetrain. I keep it lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ... and ride it and ride it
    > and ride it. But I have a job and a family. What time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding
    > it. And if I have time to read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than
    The
    > Bicycle Wheel. No slam intended. That's just the way it is.
    >
    > You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you
    are
    > and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me
    that
    > riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come out of true faster than
    > riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and reason.
    >
    > As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it
    anymore.
    > It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure the stand was properly aligned. It
    > wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted. I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it
    > back. I didn't figure the
    way
    > to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of true itself.
    >

    I have the out of true problem with my truing stand. I just have to correct for it when I'm
    building/truing. As long as you know where it isn't right, adapt and overcome.

    > I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect anyone in a newsgroup to be
    > able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
    >

    Ain't that the truth!

    Mike
     
  18. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Bob C? snipes anonymously:

    >>> "I don't build wheels and I'm not going to."

    >> Could you explain this comment?

    > Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially the drivetrain. I keep it
    > lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ... and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have
    > a job and a family. What time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
    > read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The Bicycle Wheel. No slam
    > intended. That's just the way it is.

    I guess you'll have to stew in your own juice if you don't want to understand why your wheels
    don't stay true. Besides, if you aren't going to maintain them then leave it to the bicycle shop
    that does.

    > You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are and that you're THE
    > expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads won't
    > tend to cause a wheel to come out of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic
    > and reason.

    If you understand what changes when a wheel loses alignment then you would understand why rough
    roads don't affect wheel alignment. If the rim does not bottom the tire against road hazards, then
    the wheel has no reason to lose alignment. Of course this assumes you are using conventional
    equipment rather than the latest untried fad.

    > As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore. It arrived with a
    > device that you could use to make sure the stand was properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be
    > adjusted. I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the
    > way to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of true itself.

    > I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect anyone in a newsgroup to be
    > able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.

    Your haughty tone and the obstacles you throw out for receiving advice that you might follow is the
    problem. You imply that your time is more valuable than that of others who respond to your
    questions. How do job interviews go with this approach?

    If you sift through the responses you'll see that your question has been fully answered but you
    don't want to true wheels so what can others say.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  19. Gary Young

    Gary Young Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote:

    ><snip> You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are and that you're
    >THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads
    >won't tend to cause a wheel to come out of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies
    >logic and reason.
    >
    > As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore. It arrived with a
    > device that you could use to make sure the stand was properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be
    > adjusted. I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the
    > way to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of true itself.

    That calibration tool goes a long way toward explaining why I find the Minoura stand so frustrating.
    The T-shaped tool has two marks, one on either side, indicating where "center" is. But the two marks
    don't line up! I just found it mind-boggling that Minoura would expect you to correct the stand
    using a tool that was itself incorrect.

    That being said, the Minoura tool _is_ adjustible, as is explained in the instruction manual -- you
    can loosen the u-shaped piece that embraces the rim and move it from side to side until it's
    centered. You can build a perfectly good wheel with a little patience, which you seem to have in
    short supply.

    >
    > I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect anyone in a newsgroup to be
    > able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.

    Why even ask? You seem to have all the answers.
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    >
    >"I don't build wheels and I'm not
    >> going to." Could you explain this comment?
    >
    >Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially the drivetrain. I keep it
    >lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ... and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have a
    >job and a family. What time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
    >read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The Bicycle Wheel. No slam
    >intended. That's just the way it is.

    If you don't have time to read the book, then you don't have the time to true your wheels either.
    The reason being that if you don't do it properly, you are just wasting your time. The time you
    spend learning how to do it properly will save you much more time.

    >You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are and that you're THE
    >expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads won't
    >tend to cause a wheel to come out of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic
    >and reason.

    Does not defy logic at all. Pretty straight forward. Your wheels will only go out of true if you hit
    a hole big enough to damage the rim or if you hit a hole and the impact causes the spokes to go
    completely slack. The slack spoke will then slowly unscrew itself. Wheels built with too low a
    tension will do this, a well built wheel will not. This is covered in the book.

    >As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore. It arrived with a device
    >that you could use to make sure the stand was properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted.
    >I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the way to start
    >getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of true itself.

    That device is simply for centering purposes and is not necessary. You could easily use the stand as
    it was just to check for wheel trueness. You could then flip the wheel in the stand to make sure it
    was centered. This is also covered in the book.

    >I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect anyone in a newsgroup to be
    >able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.

    You got more than one answer, you just didn't like the answer you got. Some people don't have a lot
    of time, that is why they want to make sure they do things the right way the first time around. You
    too would have more bike time and less time behind the truing stand if you read the book.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
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