Wheel warning

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    A friend came over with a set of new Mavic Kyserium Elites. These wheels were round and true but the inner measurements of the clincher rims were REALLY narrow. He also had a set of Panasonic 23 mm tires.

    I attempted to install these tires on these rims and it was extremely difficult to get the tire to stick in the clincher bead. It was so bad that two of us (and Will is a big man as well) had to actually push the new tire down into the bead. It wouldn't stay on the rim until we got it mounted more than half-way around the rim. And the well was so shallow on the wheels that the innertube was extremely difficult to get inside the tire. It pinch flatted twice and we finally got the third innertube inside and inflated. The rear tire with all of our practice only pinch flatted once.

    So in total it required five innertubes to get two new wheels with tires installed. Will texted me last night that the front tire had gone flat overnight again and he had installed a SIXTH innertube. We'll have to see how that works.

    This does not bode well for Will getting a flat on the road.

    How much of this was due to the tires and how much to the rims is something of a question. After multiple installations I couldn't tell if the slightly easier installation was due to the stretching of the folding tire bead and how much to experience with these damn things.

    Will intends to get a set of 25 mm tires and see if Continentals install easier. I've never encountered wheels that were so difficult to mount a tire on. And having a pinch flat mounting a new tire and tube has been unknown if you mouth inflate the new tube so that it is the correct diameter so that it fits inside the tire when mounting.

    Another problem with Kyseriums that everyone I know that has bought them has had is that they crack around the nipple holes within a year. One of my particularly stubborn friends bought a new set every year for about five years before he got smart and went to Campy wheels.

    Will is heavy and he was buying a new set of wheels because the Bontrager wheels on his top end Trek broke out a nipple for an eighth inch around the nipple hole. That was a careful ride home.

    If you are looking to buy aluminum wheels I suggest Campy or Fulcrum which are made by the same company. I got a set of Fulcrum 3's last year on sale since they were the last of the 2017's rather cheaply and they really strike me as good wheels. I have them on my Basso Loto and have beat them pretty badly in very fast descents over pretty poor roads.
     
    #1 cyclintom, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    Tags:


  2. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    Kyserium? LMAO!!!!
     
  3. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,068
    Likes Received:
    331
    I have a bud who used Mavic Ksyriums ($600) at 200 lbs. Strong dude, broke his first set within a year after suggesting I give them a try. Glad I did not consider them. When he took them in for repair, the LBS talked him into buying the red spoke version for $1200 (?) claiming they were stronger and lighter.

    Sadly we did a mountain climb ride on his brand new set of wheels. POP!!! Broken spoke! :eek:

    Another buddy of mine, 196 pounds had a good deal of problems with his set as well. Did get replaced by warranty but he was not happy with the wheels.

    Of course posters always say a friend of a friend told them this and that but I have it on video. :D

    1:00 into the video, 3rd spoke broken in 2 1/2 months! :mad:


    View: https://youtu.be/RmvNQLhZelc
     
  4. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    17
    With wheels like that, it would really create a problem if a flat occurs on a ride.

    I bought some white walled tires from a LBS in Ireland. They were so tight that even with soapy water I only managed to get one tire on the rim without damaging it. Thinking ahead of a time when I might have to fix a flat, I decided not to use the tires, at all. Returning them was out of the question because they'd been fitted.

    If I don't have wheels and tires I can service on the road, then I don't want them.

    Incidentally, those wheels get a good write up in Cycling Weekly. From what I read in the OP and the comments, it seems the magazine doesn't know much about them.
     
  5. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    Where was that video taking? A lot of mountain roads look the same but that looked like a S Calif road. Initially I was going to say Angeles Crest HWY but traffic wasn't present so maybe one of the side roads? Just seems like I've been on that road but can't place it, or it's one that looks like one I've been on.
     
  6. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,068
    Likes Received:
    331
    Glendora Mountain Ridge Road/ Glendora Ridge Road also known by locals as GMR and GRR. Takes you from the base of Mt Baldy, city of Glendora to Mt Baldy Village.

    The long and winding road! :D Short version, 8 miles one way 2300 ft gain. Med version 15 miles one way with 2300 ft gain. Long version 21 miles one way with 5,000 ft gain. Gina has done the short version maybe 50 times, the med maybe 20 times and the long version 2 times.

    IMG_0453.JPG IMG_6889.JPG
     
    #6 Mr. Beanz, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  7. phillman5

    phillman5 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have that same wheel set bought in Fall 2016 (came with new bike). I haven't had that much physical problems mounting 23 mm Continentals Grand Prix 4000 tires, though I admit to a few pinch flats. I don't see any cracks at the valve hole either, no broken spokes either and I average > 150 miles/week, and I am 200 lbs. I did have a broken spoke on a Campy wheel set). I did hit a rather large object (like a 2x4) desending fast, flatted both tires but the rims only lost a little true, easily fixed. I also have Mavic hubs, and the rear freewheel had to be lubricated after only one year (I never had this need with other freewheels). Doing that lube I discovered there is only 2 cogs in the freewheel, I would say that is not much to propel a 200 lbs up a 8% grade! I noticed that the valve hole on the inner tube side is a little small in that rubber right around the valve does not go through it, so I drilled it out and smoothed the edge. Don't know if that is a good thing or not, but it hasn't been problem, and the inner tube right around the valve stem is then flat. See diagram attached.

    drilled out rim.jpg
     
  8. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    17
    Your comment speaks volumes. :)
     
  9. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    Campy Neurons and Neutrons with the shallow rims would break spokes if you looked at them funny. The Protons seemed to be more heavily built and despite being shallow rims I didn't have any problems with them. But the new deep rims are pretty strong. The trouble is that most "modern" wheels have a weight limit of 240 lbs. At 185 lbs it doesn't take hitting much of a pothole at speed to exceed that so I worry a lot.
     
  10. phillman5

    phillman5 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    3
    The Campy rims I have that I broke a spoke in the first year were Eurus Mega G3, though I haven't broken any more since.
     
  11. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    YES! I knew I've seen that road before!! Dang that brought back some old memories, we use to train on that exact road and surrounding roads like the Angeles Crest Hwy and several of those smaller roads all up through that area, I use to ride that Glendora MT Ridge road to Mt Baldy and past that to some campground further up the road I can't remember the name of any more and turn around there and come back. Sometimes we would take the split that was Mt Baldy road and go to Base Line/Foothill/66 back to Azusa up the 39 (or run it backwards) a bit till we got to some Elementary school off another road where we had parked our cars on the street outside the school with houses on one side. Sorry I can't remember those street names anymore that stuff was way back in the 80's! But that run was about 50 or 60 mile loop, you probably know the miles better than I do

    The longest training ride I took in that area was leaving La Canada Flintridge area on Hwy 2 over to Big Pine turn around and come back, that was around 100 miles. Since I lived in Palmdale Lancaster area I would take off by myself and sometimes do a mountainous loop by taking PearBlossom/138 HWY all the way to Wrightwood, hit the 2 till I got to Big Tujunga Canyon rd to Angeles Forest Hwy back to Pearblossom hwy, that was a bit over 100 miles don't recall exactly.

    There were a lot more roads in those areas I use to ride, I've been all over those mountains, including San Bernardino mountains all over the area that was around and including Big Bear Lake, Lake Arrowhead; there was a loop that we did that started at Highland and went in a circle up through there. And been all over the Los Padres National Forest area too. I even knew the southern half of the Sequoia National Forest as well. I used to know that whole mountain range area almost as good as the back of my hand!

    God I wish I could ride that good today!! There is no way I could do even the mildest of those roads today, the mountain legs are gone. I wish I still lived in that area, but my life took me away from all of that due to cost of living there. I haven't climbed a mountain since 2002. Congrats you're still doing it.
     
    Mr. Beanz likes this.
  12. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    I suspect you're very observant and also lift your weight off of the saddle when you're about to hit a pothole etc. A large number of people don't ride enough to develop good riding habits. Also fast descents and broken roads in and out of shadows can cause you to hit wheel breakers.
     
  13. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    The best way to prevent damaging your bike is to stay alert and not hit potholes, I don't see what the difficulty in that is, I haven't hit a pothole in forever! Staying alert while riding is the key to staying alive. If by some chance you fall asleep while riding and you're about to hit a pothole your method sort of works as long as you stay flexible on the bike with bent arms and legs and let the bike bounce, but that still risk damage to the wheel and or fork; but a better method is to bunny hop the bike over the hole; all of this assumes you can't swerve around it for one reason or another. NEVER, NEVER brake when you hit a pothole. Remember the damage to the bike is never done going into the hole, it's exiting the hole that causes the damage, and if you hit the brakes then the wheel can't roll, nor can you jump the bike, instead the wheel and fork takes the whole impact much more forcefully if you are on the brakes.

    There's more as risk with modern bikes than wheels, you also risk losing your fork, and in some cases the frame has been known to break as well. Carbon fiber doesn't do well with impacts, even if after an impact with a deep hole or a curb and you don't see any outside evidence of damage, damage could have done internally, so you need to at the very least do the coin test by tapping on the fork blades and listen for any change of the sound from one blade to another, not a very accurate test but sometimes it works though this method doesn't work for the wheels which is why I would never buy CF wheels. If you don't check the fork and frame for damage and you go off riding thinking all is good you risk a major crash due to some CF part failing down the road and it could be days, weeks, months later.

    Speaking of CF issues, I have a friend of a friend who just this last week was riding with a group, and for some unknown reason the CF fork the fork snapped in two he crashed real hard and real bad, he was rushed to the hospital by air ambulance due to being unresponsive, they had to resuscitate him 3 times on the way there, he broke his neck but by the grace of God he's not paralyzed, but they had to put rods and fuse his neck so he will be wearing a halo for at least the next 6 to 8 months. The doctors think that he also suffered a heart attack after the crash, he's 64 years old. I met this guy one time some years ago but he's not one of my friends. people riding behind him heard and saw the fork snap, all the group was doing was going down a typical country road, there were no potholes, ruts, or curbs, just road, and he didn't hit anything earlier in the ride, but they're not sure if he hit something on an earlier ride; the guy doesn't recall hitting anything earlier either. This was a CF Trek, not sure what model he had, but I heard it cost him around $5,000. I haven't heard as of yet if they have, or ever will be able to determine why the fork broke, and I haven't heard if he's seeking legal help.
     
  14. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    Funny story about that - I was on a long ride and was out on the approach to Mr. Diablo when I broke a spoke on a Neuron. It went enough out of round that I was going to be a problem getting home from 25 miles out. There was a shopping center there so we decided to have lunch and talk about it. As we rode in there was a just opened Bike shop specializing in Colnagos and Campy. He had a stock of those straight pull spokes it took 5 minutes and $10 and I was on the road again.
     
  15. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    Damn, you must have owned those Neuron's a very long time because the replacement for them now is the NEUTRON.

    Ok so let's analyze your story, this is going to be fun. In the second sentence you say this: It went enough out of round that I was going to be a problem getting home from 25 miles out, but in the next two sentences (actually you should have had those two sentences as one sentence because it's the same thought) you say this: There was a shopping center there so we decided to have lunch and talk about it. As we rode in there was a just opened Bike shop specializing in Colnagos and Campy. So you couldn't ride the bike home because it was out of round but it was ok enough to ride to some shopping center? So help me out because you talk in weird circles and clarification is in order.

    However after reading all over the internet about those Neutron wheels I found that those wheels are very durable, in fact more durable than most, and spokes breaking are indeed rare, those are not fragile wheels as you claim they are when you said this: Campy Neurons and Neutrons with the shallow rims would break spokes if you looked at them funny. And note in that sentence you said Campy Neurons and Neutrons, I could not find any reference for Campy Neuron wheels, which I never recalled those either, and I never recalled people who had the Neutrons having any unusual problems with spokes breaking, maybe if you're too heavy for the wheelset then that could be YOUR issue and not everyone else's, but those wheels have a 240 pound rider weight limit which is typical of most wheels.
     
  16. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
     
  17. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    Is this just you or does everyone think that a wheel goes out of round when you break a spoke. My guess is that those with actual experience at riding would know that it goes out of true and rubs against the brake in the open position. It would appear to me that your weird circles are in your mind. But I suppose the ability to think doesn't run in your family.

    OK, sitting at the computer I made the mistake of writing Neurons instead of Nucleons. But then that would never cross your mind because you don't have any descent equipment. Perhaps you could tell us about all these fast friends of yours that have Neutrons and never had any problems with them? One would almost think that a bike shop would carry spare straight spoke specifically because they never would need them.

    But then, mine broke on the rear wheel on three different occasions and I drove to that shop and picked up spares. That must have been because in your vast experience with high end wheels they never failed. At the time of my using Nucleons they were the top line wheels made by Campy. The Neutrons aren't even close. They are below middle grade. The Protons are beneath them but, using standard spokes, are much stronger and do not break spokes or have weight limits. And that would be valuable for you.
     
  18. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    283
    Do you even know what the heck you have? you keep changing your mind from (now) Nucleons to Neutrons, you don't have those wheels, I doubt you even own a bike, you're comprehension skills are equal to a 7 year old, so is that who you really are? A 7 year old sock puppet posing as an older person?

    As always, besides spelling like a elementary school dropout, is that you again failed to comprehend, it's that 7 year old mentality thing again, I never said those were my friends, what kind of stupid person am I talking to? you never comprehend anything ever that anyone says on this forum, you're the most bizarre and idiotic person I've ever ran into on any forum. So unlike you who can never show us proof of what you said, I do, and I can, and I will show you proof about the Neutron wheels high reliability, again find someone who can read this stuff for you.
    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/campagnolo-eurus-vs-neutron-157897.html
    https://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12763929

    Then you said this in the above statement which I captured just for our entertainment pleasure: "Is this just you or does everyone think that a wheel goes out of round when you break a spoke..." OK, but you said this in an earlier post: "I broke a spoke on a Neuron. It went enough out of round..." and then you say: My guess is that those with actual experience at riding would know that it goes out of true and rubs against the brake in the open position. So which is Tommy boy, did they go out of round or not? Who is thinking what here? But I'm also led to believe that you don't own either the Neutron or the Nucleon because you can't figure out which you have and when called on it you had to create another one of your stupid stories to cover your ass which you have to do ALL the time.

    By the way, the Nuclean wheels were NOT top of the line wheels that Campy made, they were the next step up from the Neutrons, but the Nuclean's only cost $660 for the pair, and they weighed 1920 grams for the set, again here is the proof:
    Campagnolo Nucleon
    [​IMG]
    Price: $660
    F/R Mass (w/o skewer - clincher): 693g/920g
    F/R Mass (ready for tire - clincher): 776g/1006g
    F/R Spoke Count: 22/24 - radial front/non drive, 2 cross drive
    Rim Depth/Width (mm): 18.9/20.9
    Marketing Features: Asymmetric rear rim, titanium pawl carrier, straight pull spokes (“Ultra-linear geometry”), thicker drive side spokes, cartridge bearings, machined braking surface
    Claimed Benefits: lightweight, stiff, ideal for climbing and sprinting
    I don't about you but $660 for a wheel is just an average priced wheelset that you would see an average cyclist on, not saying they're bad wheels, I didn't say that, but they're not high end.

    Just in case you switch to Neutrons here is their price and info: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-neutron-ultra-road-wheelset-2018/rp-prod26105

    You were right about this: "you don't have any descent equipment." that's right, I don't own a DH bike! LMAO!!
     
  19. ACyclingRooster

    ACyclingRooster New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hi folks. I have two bikes and both are on Mavic Aksium Race rims with Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs and bladed spokes.
    I am running Vittoria Rubino 23c's on both bikes and have been for some years without issues.

    I will certainly keep my eyes on them as a precaution/early warning.

    Steve Goff (13).JPG Steve Goff (7).JPG DSCF4341.JPG
     
  20. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    61
    Judging from the size of your bikes I would think that you're not heavy enough to have any problems with the Aksiums. Most of the high end wheels are constructed for people the size and weight of pro racers and they perform well in that use. But most sport riders are a lot larger and this puts a real strain on the wheels. Though you probably should look for cracks around the nipples when you wash the bikes.
     
Loading...
Loading...