Wheelbuild Advice Please!

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Candt, Jun 16, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Candt

    Candt Guest

    Hi there all,

    I posted a message a while back out my stock rear hub having large spacing between the 'teeth' of
    the freewheel, meaning the crank can move up to an inch before the pawls engage. I'm confused as to
    what I could/couldnt replace from this 'Formula Inc' hub, so have decided to have a go at my first
    wheel build.

    Because I don't want to mess up with an expensive hub and rim, I'm keeping mny current WTB Dual Duty
    rim (which seems pretty solid), and am going to get a Deore rear disc hub, as I know this will match
    my Deore hydraulics that I have...

    Now - I've just looked up the rims on WTB's site, and I can see its 32 holes.

    http://www.wtb.com/dualduty_rim.html

    so OK - I need the 32h deore hub.

    Now the questions are - what spoke sizes will I need? Do they come in defferent lengths? Also - is
    it likely I'd need a new cassette too? Or would the Formula hub's cassette fit the deore hub... I
    also have a limited choice of spokes... Either

    ACI Spokes 2mm-1.7mm (what does that mean?) or DT Swiss Competition Stainless PG

    Now these are 5GBP and 10GBP respectively, but I'd assume this is for 32/36 spokes?! Not each!!?

    Anything else I've missed, or you think would help me, please feel free to
    laugh/criticise/berate/encourage....

    Cheers,

    CandT
     
    Tags:


  2. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi there all,
    >
    > I posted a message a while back out my stock rear hub having large spacing between the 'teeth' of
    > the freewheel, meaning the crank can move up to an
    inch
    > before the pawls engage. I'm confused as to what I could/couldnt replace
    from
    > this 'Formula Inc' hub, so have decided to have a go at my first wheel
    build.
    >
    > Because I don't want to mess up with an expensive hub and rim, I'm keeping
    mny
    > current WTB Dual Duty rim (which seems pretty solid), and am going to get
    a
    > Deore rear disc hub, as I know this will match my Deore hydraulics that I have...
    >
    > Now - I've just looked up the rims on WTB's site, and I can see its 32
    holes.
    >
    > http://www.wtb.com/dualduty_rim.html
    >
    > so OK - I need the 32h deore hub.
    >
    > Now the questions are - what spoke sizes will I need? Do they come in
    defferent
    > lengths? Also - is it likely I'd need a new cassette too? Or would the
    Formula
    > hub's cassette fit the deore hub... I also have a limited choice of
    spokes...
    > Either
    >
    > ACI Spokes 2mm-1.7mm (what does that mean?) or DT Swiss Competition Stainless PG
    >
    > Now these are 5GBP and 10GBP respectively, but I'd assume this is for
    32/36
    > spokes?! Not each!!?
    >
    > Anything else I've missed, or you think would help me, please feel free to
    > laugh/criticise/berate/encourage....
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > CandT

    Go to URL: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm Scroll down to Spocalc (full strength
    version) You will need MS Excel and enable the macros when it ask. Read the instructions and follow
    them for spoke length calculation.

    David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
     
  3. On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:45:34 GMT, CandT <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Hi there all,
    >
    >I posted a message a while back out my stock rear hub having large spacing between the 'teeth' of
    >the freewheel, meaning the crank can move up to an inch before the pawls engage. I'm confused as to
    >what I could/couldnt replace from this 'Formula Inc' hub, so have decided to have a go at my first
    >wheel build.

    It's not necessarily a defect, by the way. All pawl-based freewheels have a certain amount of this
    play, which depends mainly on the amount of teeth in the shell that the pawls ratchet against. An
    inch (25 mm) of travel in the end of a crank, say 170 mm cause that's pretty much the standard, is a
    travel of 8-9 degrees, and then it depends a lot on what gear you're in. If you're doing this while
    in smallest gear, which can be near 1:1, it would be pretty much equal to about 24 teeth. If you're
    doing it in highest gear, it's much less. What you want to do is when you have the wheel out, rotate
    the cluster by hand and feel how it freewheels and engages. If it's grainy instead of smooth, it
    definitely needs replacement (of the freewheel body), and same if the clicks aren't evenly spaced
    around the entire turn.

    >Now - I've just looked up the rims on WTB's site, and I can see its 32 holes.
    >
    >http://www.wtb.com/dualduty_rim.html
    >
    >so OK - I need the 32h deore hub.

    Good idea to count the spokes in your wheel before ordering, as well. Who knows, the rims may have
    existed in 28 or 36 holes previously, or even as an OEM option, and counting's not that hard. YOu
    can just count one group (trailing on one side, frex) of spokes and multiply by four. Also, you need
    to know what size your rim is -- 622 mm road or 559 mm MTB being the most likely sizes (since you
    mention Deore, presumably 559). You'll also need to know how far the spoke nipple will sit beneath
    the tire bead (the 622 or 559 mm are diameters of the tire bead), and a lot of info about the hub.
    You then feed the lot into a spokecalculator program and it will do a lot of trig for you and come
    up with the answer. Or you can do the trig yourself.

    >Now the questions are - what spoke sizes will I need? Do they come in defferent lengths? Also - is
    >it likely I'd need a new cassette too? Or would the Formula

    Spokes pretty much come in lengths from those needed for 6 inch diameter wheels for children
    strollers up to at least the size needed for 630 mm diameter wheels in multiples of 1 mm.

    >hub's cassette fit the deore hub...

    Count how many rear speeds you have and which brand shifter. This will give you a fairly clear idea
    of what kind of casette you have, and thus what kind of freehub body you need. Most likely Shimano 7
    or Shimano 8/9. You should also measure the space between the rear dropouts (inner face to inner
    face), and you should come up with 135, if you've got an MTB.

    >I also have a limited choice of spokes... Either
    >
    >ACI Spokes 2mm-1.7mm (what does that mean?)

    Either single or double butted (double butted would normally be written
    2./1.7/2.0 - head/middle/nipple diameters in mm), where butted means that the spoke is thicker at
    the ends than in the middle. Single butted has a thicker end at the head, double at both ends, and
    triple butted has a thicker end at both ends, but different sizes.

    >or DT Swiss Competition Stainless PG

    Straight gauge good quality stainless steel spokes, IIRC.

    >Now these are 5GBP and 10GBP respectively, but I'd assume this is for 32/36 spokes?! Not each!!?

    For some multiple, certainly, but I'd go for somewhere in the region of 10 spokes at that price,
    given other prices in England. If you're mailordering, BTW, get some spares, just in case a
    spoke breaks. You don't want to find out nobody in your town can supply a single replacement
    spoke when one does.

    Jasper
     
  4. Candt

    Candt Guest

    >Go to URL: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm Scroll down to Spocalc (full strength
    >version) You will need MS Excel and enable the macros when it ask. Read the instructions and follow
    >them for spoke length calculation.
    >
    >David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
    >
    Thanks for that - I've played around, and decided to go for the XT Disc hub instead (only 5GBP more
    expensive, so why not eh?!)...

    Now I'll be buying the DT Competition spokes from mail order, so would someone check my calculations
    and tell me if I'm right with my figures?

    Basically its the XT Disc Rear on WTB Dual Duty Rims.

    For a 3 cross lacing I get 2 spoke sizes - 258.8 and 257.3. Now what size spokes does this actually
    equate to? Also - do the boxes of spokes come in packs of 32? In which case - will I have to buy 2
    boxes of different sizes, or are the spokes cutable, so I'd get 1 larger sized box, and cut a bit
    off for the smaller sizes?!

    Sorry if these are inane questions, but I've not done it before...

    Cheers,

    CandT
     
  5. Candt

    Candt Guest

    On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:08:59 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >For some multiple, certainly, but I'd go for somewhere in the region of 10 spokes at that price,
    >given other prices in England. If you're mailordering, BTW, get some spares, just in case a spoke
    >breaks. You don't want to find out nobody in your town can supply a single replacement spoke when
    >one does.
    >
    >
    >Jasper

    Thanks for that Jasper - you might want to look at my other reply in this thread too.

    You seem to know what you're talking about, and you're right about the freewheel
    - its the same all the way around, but checking again - it's like 1-2 inches of free play
    between teeth on the freewheel - which is pretty unacceptable I think. Any ideas if the XT hub
    will be better?

    Anyway - one other question is the lacing pattern. At the moment - the wheel is laced in 'pairs' of
    crossing spokes on both sides. So literally you have 8 pairs of 'X's on both sides - is this a
    1-Cross pattern then? I'll probably change to 3 cross though, as this seems to be the type everyone
    advocates for 32 spoke wheels... What do you think?

    CandT
     
  6. On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:30:48 GMT, CandT <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You seem to know what you're talking about, and you're right about the freewheel

    Be careful with that, though, I manage to sound like that even when I don't. I blame my college
    guidance counselor (*hack* *spit*).

    >- its the same all the way around, but checking again - it's like 1-2 inches of free play between
    > teeth on the freewheel - which is pretty unacceptable I think. Any ideas if the XT hub will be
    > better?

    That sounds like it's divided into about 6 positions with grip over 360 degrees? Yeah, that sounds
    like a fairly low quality one. Not necessarily bad, though, it's something I personally would be
    able to live with, assuming it's a designed in low amount, rather than a question of some stuff
    ahving broken off internally.

    >Anyway - one other question is the lacing pattern. At the moment - the wheel is laced in 'pairs' of
    >crossing spokes on both sides. So literally you have 8 pairs of 'X's on both sides - is this a
    >1-Cross pattern then? I'll probably change to 3 cross though, as this seems to be the type everyone
    >advocates for 32 spoke wheels... What do you think?

    You need to look really carefully how many spokes are crossed by a spoke. In a standard 3-cross,
    you'll get pairs of spokes that obviously clearly visibly cross each other, plus 1 cross that's
    slightly harder to see, and one that you can easily miss -- right at the hub, 2 spokes next to each
    other, going different ways, will cross each other.

    See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html -- and read the whole page while you're there, it's
    all useful info if you're gonna build a wheel. Building a 32 spoke 3cross is essentially the same as
    a 36, except the groups are 8 spokes instead of 9.

    Jasper
     
  7. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Jasper Janssen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:45:34 GMT, CandT <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Hi there all,
    > >
    > >I posted a message a while back out my stock rear hub having large spacing between the 'teeth' of
    > >the freewheel, meaning the crank can move up to an
    inch
    > >before the pawls engage. I'm confused as to what I could/couldnt replace
    from
    > >this 'Formula Inc' hub, so have decided to have a go at my first wheel
    build.
    >
    > It's not necessarily a defect, by the way. All pawl-based freewheels have a certain amount of this
    > play, which depends mainly on the amount of teeth in the shell that the pawls ratchet against. An
    > inch (25 mm) of travel in the end of a crank, say 170 mm cause that's pretty much the standard, is
    > a travel of 8-9 degrees, and then it depends a lot on what gear you're in.

    Some hubs have much less. "Trials" (stunt) riders often look for hubs with little ratcheting, some
    off-roaders prefer low amounts too (in order to "ratchet" through a rocky section w/o pedal strike).
     
  8. On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:59:07 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Some hubs have much less. "Trials" (stunt) riders often look for hubs with little ratcheting,
    >some off-roaders prefer low amounts too (in order to "ratchet" through a rocky section w/o
    >pedal strike).

    Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean a more standard hub is defective, it's just differently abled.

    Jasper
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...