Wheels and hubs for touring

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Wayne T, Feb 22, 2003.

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  1. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    I just got off the phone with a bike store. I first asked him about the difference between DA and
    Ultegra. He said the difference is that the DA has Ti. I asked if the races were different. He said
    no. I asked if it is true that the Ultegras often come in without enough grease. He said that is
    true of both the DAs and Ultegras. He said that he preferred hubs with cartridge bearings because
    they are completely sealed and are easy to replace. He said that he liked the American Classic, DT
    Swift, Chris King and Mavic built with an aerodynamic wheel such as the 20 mm Mavic CXP33. I said
    what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter spokes, somewhere
    between 260 & 290, that you could build a wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you could with formerly
    with 36 spokes for heavy touring. In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the time. I'm
    180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked him if I could put on a 32c tire
    without them being too tight. He said yes and that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager wheels
    which are 20mm.

    Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked nonareo
    wheel? Also, can you really put on a 32c tire on a 20 mm rim, and if so, is it going to be very
    difficult to change in the middle of the boonies when you get a flat? BTW, a friend of mine does
    have a pair of Bontrager wheels on his tandem. If a 28 spoke is not enough, what about a 32? I seem
    to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke wheels may result in you
    not getting home. Is this true if you carry extra spokes?
     
    Tags:


  2. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    A well built 36 spoke with almost any decent hub will serve fine. If you plan on using 700x32, opt
    for rims that are 15 mm between the bead seats. Sun, Mavic, Alex, and many other companies have that
    type of rim. Rims like Mavic Open Pro and Velocity, etc. have 13 mm bead seats.

    The wider the tire, the easier they usually go on and come off the rim.

    On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:00:12 GMT, "Wayne T" <[email protected]cwphilly.rr.com> wrote:

    >I'm 180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked him if I could put on a 32c
    >tire without them being too tight. He said yes and that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager
    >wheels which are 20mm.
     
  3. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I just got off the phone with a bike store. I first asked him about the difference between DA and
    > Ultegra. He said the difference is that the DA has Ti. I asked if the races were different. He
    > said no. I asked if it
    is
    > true that the Ultegras often come in without enough grease. He said that
    is
    > true of both the DAs and Ultegras. He said that he preferred hubs with cartridge bearings because
    > they are completely sealed and are easy to replace. He said that he liked the American Classic, DT
    > Swift, Chris King and Mavic built with an aerodynamic wheel such as the 20 mm Mavic CXP33.
    I
    > said what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter spokes,
    > somewhere between 260 & 290, that you could build a wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you could
    > with formerly with 36 spokes
    for
    > heavy touring. In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the
    time.
    > I'm 180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked
    him
    > if I could put on a 32c tire without them being too tight. He said yes
    and
    > that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager wheels which are 20mm.
    >
    > Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked
    > nonareo wheel? Also, can you really put on a 32c
    tire
    > on a 20 mm rim, and if so, is it going to be very difficult to change in
    the
    > middle of the boonies when you get a flat? BTW, a friend of mine does
    have
    > a pair of Bontrager wheels on his tandem. If a 28 spoke is not enough,
    what
    > about a 32? I seem to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke
    > wheels may result in you not getting home. Is this true if you carry extra spokes?
    >
    Check for yourself the differences between Dura-Ace and Ultegra @ URLs:
    http://bike.shimano.com/road/dura-ace/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-77 00
    http://bike.shimano.com/Road/Ultegra/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-650 0 Dura-Ace has
    stainless steel ball bearings. There are similar specification pages for the front hubs that you can
    check out.

    If you are truly touring with 75 lbs of touring gear I would stay far away from 28 spoke or even
    most 32 spoke wheels. I would suggest the Bontrager Fairlane because the rear has OSB (Offset Spoke
    Bed). OSB results in a build where the rear spokes have more equal spoke support angle and
    side-to-side tension. This results in a more durable wheel. See the details on the rear Bontrager
    Fairlane at URL: http://www.bontrager.com/rims/detail.asp?id=109&pt=6

    If you are more for tradition, you can choose Mavic T520. T520 is wider and has double eyelets. You
    can check the details at URL:
    http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/asph-prod_fiche?produitsid=51&lg=uk

    As far as touring with CXP33 rims, the load you describe and the tires you describe would not be
    suitable for them. I just built some 3X CXP33 32 spoke wheels on Ultegra hubs. Spoke lengths
    involved are 293 front, 292, and 290 mm rear. You can look for yourself at the spoke calculation
    charts on Sheldon Brown's website. You can see more details of the CXP33 rims at URL:
    http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?produitsid=46&lg=uk Note the link that shows
    tire dimensions and inflation pressures. This rim works fine up to 28 mm.

    For touring wheel information you can see Peter White's website and Rivendell Bicycle's website at
    the following URLs: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp Scroll down to the section for Loaded
    Touring http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/wheels/ They seem to assume that your O.L.D. will
    be 135 mm for touring.

    There must be a quality wheel builder in your area that understands loaded touring requirements.
    Correct tension, tension balancing, spoke alignment, stress relieving, using double butted spokes,
    are all part of a quality build.

    David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
     
  4. Russell Yim

    Russell Yim Guest

    >Is this guy right or is he off the wall? =A0

    Definitely off-the-wall. The guy's probably never been touring before. Heck, he may not know what a
    real touring bike is!

    >Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked non-aero wheel?

    NO.

    >Also, can you really put on a 32c tire on a 20 mm rim

    You could, but it's not recommended; 28mm would be about the max. There's a formula for calculating
    the minimum and maximum tire width for a given rim, developed by the ISO (International Standards
    Organisation)

    For a road rim, measure the inside width of the rim. Multiply this number by 1.4 for the minimum
    acceptable "tire section width," and 2.0 for the maximum section width.

    To determine any tire's section width, flatten it out as best as possible (from bead-to-bead) and
    measure that distance. Dividing that number by 2.5 will give you the section width. If that number
    falls within the given range determined in the first step, it's a good fit.

    Russell
     
  5. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Paul Kopit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A well built 36 spoke with almost any decent hub will serve fine. If you plan on using 700x32, opt
    > for rims that are 15 mm between the bead seats. Sun, Mavic, Alex, and many other companies have
    > that type of rim. Rims like Mavic Open Pro and Velocity, etc. have 13 mm bead seats.

    My builder suggested the Mavic Open Pro for my wife and the Mavic touring for me. Are you saying
    tht the Open Pro wouldn't be the way to go since it has a 13mm bead instead of a 15mm? I take it
    that a 13mm bead would be too small for 32c tires, is that correct? Do you know whether or not the
    Mavic touring has 15mm between the bead seats? I have a feeling it does since it is a touring rim.
    I believe that my builder was suggesting the open pro for my wife since she weighs only around 106.
    One more thing, I take it that you disagree that a wheel with less than 36 spokes is appropriate
    for touring?
    >
    > The wider the tire, the easier they usually go on and come off the rim.
    >
    > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:00:12 GMT, "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm 180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked
    him
    > >if I could put on a 32c tire without them being too tight. He said yes
    and
    > >that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager wheels which are 20mm.
     
  6. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "David Ornee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I just got off the phone with a bike store. I first asked him about the difference between DA
    > > and Ultegra. He said the difference is that the
    DA
    > > has Ti. I asked if the races were different. He said no. I asked if
    it
    > is
    > > true that the Ultegras often come in without enough grease. He said
    that
    > is
    > > true of both the DAs and Ultegras. He said that he preferred hubs with cartridge bearings
    > > because they are completely sealed and are easy to replace. He said that he liked the American
    > > Classic, DT Swift, Chris
    King
    > > and Mavic built with an aerodynamic wheel such as the 20 mm Mavic
    CXP33.
    > I
    > > said what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter spokes,
    > > somewhere between 260 & 290, that you could build
    a
    > > wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you could with formerly with 36 spokes
    > for
    > > heavy touring. In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the
    > time.
    > > I'm 180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked
    > him
    > > if I could put on a 32c tire without them being too tight. He said yes
    > and
    > > that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager wheels which are 20mm.
    > >
    > > Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked
    > > nonareo wheel? Also, can you really put on a 32c
    > tire
    > > on a 20 mm rim, and if so, is it going to be very difficult to change in
    > the
    > > middle of the boonies when you get a flat? BTW, a friend of mine does
    > have
    > > a pair of Bontrager wheels on his tandem. If a 28 spoke is not enough,
    > what
    > > about a 32? I seem to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke
    > > wheels may result in you not getting home. Is
    this
    > > true if you carry extra spokes?
    > >
    > Check for yourself the differences between Dura-Ace and Ultegra @ URLs:
    >
    http://bike.shimano.com/road/dura-ace/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-77
    > 00
    >
    http://bike.shimano.com/Road/Ultegra/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-650

    I checked your web sites for comparison between DA and Ultegra hubs. It appears that the only
    difference is that the DA has a Ti body. I didn't see anything about DA having stainless steel
    ball bearings.

    > 0 Dura-Ace has stainless steel ball bearings. There are similar specification pages for the front
    > hubs that you can
    check
    > out.
    >
    > If you are truly touring with 75 lbs of touring gear I would stay far away from 28 spoke or even
    > most 32 spoke wheels. I would suggest the Bontrager Fairlane because the rear has OSB (Offset
    > Spoke Bed). OSB results in a build where the rear spokes have more equal spoke support angle and
    > side-to-side tension. This results in a more durable wheel. See the details on the rear Bontrager
    > Fairlane at URL: http://www.bontrager.com/rims/detail.asp?id=109&pt=6

    I checked the bontrager site. You said that for touring, to stay away from 28 or even most 32 spoke
    wheels. I see that the Bontrager Fairlane only comes in 32 or 48 spokes. Does that mean that you
    feel that a 32 spoke wheel with this rim would be OK?
    >
    > If you are more for tradition, you can choose Mavic T520. T520 is wider and has double eyelets.
    > You can check the details at URL:
    > http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/asph-prod_fiche?produitsid=51&lg=uk

    I see what you mean. The only Mavic that took beyond a 28c was the T520.

    >
    > As far as touring with CXP33 rims, the load you describe and the tires you describe would not be
    > suitable for them. I just built some 3X CXP33 32 spoke wheels on Ultegra hubs. Spoke lengths
    > involved are 293 front, 292, and 290 mm rear. You can look for yourself at the spoke calculation
    > charts on Sheldon
    Brown's
    > website. You can see more details of the CXP33 rims at URL:
    > http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?produitsid=46&lg=uk Note the link that
    > shows tire dimensions and inflation pressures. This
    rim
    > works fine up to 28 mm.

    Yes, you are quite correct. Thanks this is very helpful. Looks like if I go with the Mavic rims, I
    need to get 520s for both my wife and I. She could probably go with 32 spokes since she is only
    106, but how much lighter is a total of 8 spokes going to be. Probably better to err on the side
    of sturdiness. Not sure just how much heavy touring I will end up doing, but it is nice to have
    that option.
    >
    > For touring wheel information you can see Peter White's website and Rivendell Bicycle's website at
    > the following URLs: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp Scroll down to the section for
    > Loaded Touring http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/wheels/ They seem to assume
    that
    > your O.L.D. will be 135 mm for touring.

    They are using mountain XT hubs which are 135mm spacing vs an Ultegra which has 130mm spacing. BTW,
    that wheel really gets expensive when you go with a Phil Wood Hub. Too bad since my wife's current
    rear hub is a Phil Wood freewheel hub. Can't help wondering if a Chris King wouldn't be better since
    it is lighter and also has sealed cartridge bearings. But an Ultegra may be almost as good and at so
    much lower price.
    >
    > There must be a quality wheel builder in your area that understands loaded touring requirements.
    > Correct tension, tension balancing, spoke alignment, stress relieving,
    using
    > double butted spokes, are all part of a quality build.

    The guy I am currently dealing with is a respected frame builder. However, kind of surprised that he
    is suggesting an Open Pro for my wife, unless a 28 tire would suffice for heavy touring. Though I'm
    not so sure. I will have to ask him.
    >
    > David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

    David, thank you. You have been most helpful.
    >
     
  7. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    Russell,

    Thanks. I've been out of the market for new gear for so long that I didn't know what to believe. I
    found it a bit hard to believe that a 28 spoke wheel would be sufficient for heavy touring but since
    I had no experience with aero rims, I wasn't sure.

    "Russell Yim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >Is this guy right or is he off the wall?

    Definitely off-the-wall. The guy's probably never been touring before. Heck, he may not know what a
    real touring bike is!

    >Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked non-aero wheel?

    NO.

    >Also, can you really put on a 32c tire on a 20 mm rim

    You could, but it's not recommended; 28mm would be about the max. There's a formula for calculating
    the minimum and maximum tire width for a given rim, developed by the ISO (International Standards
    Organisation)

    For a road rim, measure the inside width of the rim. Multiply this number by 1.4 for the minimum
    acceptable "tire section width," and 2.0 for the maximum section width.

    To determine any tire's section width, flatten it out as best as possible (from bead-to-bead) and
    measure that distance. Dividing that number by 2.5 will give you the section width. If that number
    falls within the given range determined in the first step, it's a good fit.

    Russell
     
  8. Frank Knox

    Frank Knox Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I just got off the phone with a bike store. I first asked him about the difference between DA and
    > Ultegra. He said the difference is that the DA has Ti. I asked if the races were different. He
    > said no. I asked if it
    is
    > true that the Ultegras often come in without enough grease. He said that
    is
    > true of both the DAs and Ultegras. He said that he preferred hubs with cartridge bearings because
    > they are completely sealed and are easy to replace. He said that he liked the American Classic, DT
    > Swift, Chris King and Mavic built with an aerodynamic wheel such as the 20 mm Mavic CXP33.
    I
    > said what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter spokes,
    > somewhere between 260 & 290, that you could build a wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you could
    > with formerly with 36 spokes
    for
    > heavy touring. In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the
    time.
    > I'm 180 and add 75 lbs for touring makes a total of 155 lbs. I asked
    him
    > if I could put on a 32c tire without them being too tight. He said yes
    and
    > that he had 28c tires on a pair of Bontrager wheels which are 20mm.
    >
    > Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked
    > nonareo wheel? Also, can you really put on a 32c
    tire
    > on a 20 mm rim, and if so, is it going to be very difficult to change in
    the
    > middle of the boonies when you get a flat? BTW, a friend of mine does
    have
    > a pair of Bontrager wheels on his tandem. If a 28 spoke is not enough,
    what
    > about a 32? I seem to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke
    > wheels may result in you not getting home. Is this true if you carry extra spokes?
    >
    >
    You can learn more on the subject here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp Have you been to
    sheldonbrown.com? http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheels/
     
  9. wayne-<< I said what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter
    spokes, somewhere between 260 & 290, that you could build a wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you
    could with formerly with 36

    What ever for??Is he saying a 28 CXP-33 wheel is just as strong as a box section 36h??
    What crappola-

    What advantage do you see for making wheels that are 'just strong enough' and not strong
    for touring??

    Me thinks that because many of the hubs he mentioned do not come in 36h...

    << In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the time.

    yep those 250 pound guys sure do benefit from not using 16 spokes from the enire wheelset...YIKES...

    << Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked
    nonareo wheel?

    A strong wheel is the rim he mentioned with 36 spokes-that will weigh about 60 grams more(that's
    about 2 ounces) and will NOT strand you anywhere as you do LOADED touring.

    << I seem to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke wheels may
    result in you not getting home. Is this true if you carry extra spokes?

    Ya better have a way to take the cassette off as well...

    Look, you want relaible touring wheels for a package that will weigh somewhere about 300 pounds-you,
    the gear and the bike...what on earth would you even consider 28 hole wheels???

    What advantage will 28h give you? Weight? see 300 pounds above, aero? fer crissakes, ya got 75
    pounds of stuff on yer bike, that ain't aero...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    Snip
    > > Check for yourself the differences between Dura-Ace and Ultegra @ URLs:
    > >
    >
    http://bike.shimano.com/road/dura-ace/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-77
    > > 00
    > >
    >
    http://bike.shimano.com/Road/Ultegra/componenttemplate.asp?partnumber=FH-650
    >
    > I checked your web sites for comparison between DA and Ultegra hubs. It appears that the only
    > difference is that the DA has a Ti body. I didn't
    see
    > anything about DA having stainless steel ball bearings.

    Wayne, Check the chart portion of the specifications to see the details that Dura-Ace has and
    Ulgtegra doesn't have stainless steel ball bearings. I shouldn't matter much as you should make sure
    there is always sufficient grease on the bearings to thouroghly coat the balls. Snip
    > I checked the bontrager site. You said that for touring, to stay away
    from
    > 28 or even most 32 spoke wheels. I see that the Bontrager Fairlane only comes in 32 or 48 spokes.
    > Does that mean that you feel that a 32 spoke wheel with this rim would be OK?

    Wayne, I included the Rivendell Bicycle Works site as well because they are the exclusive US
    distributor for the 36 spoke version of the Bontrager Fairlane.
    > > Loaded Touring http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/wheels/ They seem to assume
    > that
    > > your O.L.D. will be 135 mm for touring.

    Snip
    > They are using mountain XT hubs which are 135mm spacing vs an Ultegra
    which
    > has 130mm spacing. > > double butted spokes, are all part of a quality
    build.

    XT is value MTB equivalent to Ultegra, but it is better sealed. If your frames are steel and can be
    spread to 135 mm, you might be able take advantage of them. You would also need to check chain line
    and chainwheel clearances. There is an advantage of having the same build for your bike and your
    wife's, even though she may not need the additional strength. It will make spare parts and
    serviceability simpler. If you need to swap out a wheel in the midst of a tour you can easily and
    safely do so, if they have the same build. The additional strength also means additional durability,
    in this case. 4 additional spokes per wheel means 68 grams per set, assuming DT DB 14/15 and DT
    brass nipples. If your Phil Wood hubs are FSA, I would use them as they are extremely serviceable
    and durable. However, it sounds like they may be of an older vintage.

    David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
     
  11. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > wayne-<< I said what about for touring. He said that with the areodynamic wheels having shorter
    > spokes, somewhere between 260 & 290, that you could build a wheel as strong with 28 spokes as you
    > could with formerly with 36
    >
    > What ever for??Is he saying a 28 CXP-33 wheel is just as strong as a box section 36h?? What
    > crappola-
    >
    > What advantage do you see for making wheels that are 'just strong enough'
    and
    > not strong for touring??
    >
    > Me thinks that because many of the hubs he mentioned do not come in 36h...
    >
    > << In fact, he said that 250 pound guys ride them all the time.
    >
    > yep those 250 pound guys sure do benefit from not using 16 spokes from the enire
    > wheelset...YIKES...
    >
    > << Is this guy right or is he off the wall? Is a 28 spoked areo wheel as strong as a 36 spoked
    > nonareo wheel?
    >
    > A strong wheel is the rim he mentioned with 36 spokes-that will weigh
    about 60
    > grams more(that's about 2 ounces) and will NOT strand you anywhere as you
    do
    > LOADED touring.

    Thought that guy was off the wall but wanted to make sure. You have completely convinced me that he
    is. Yeah, a total of 4 ozs total for both wheels is definitely not worth losing dependablilty. BTW,
    my wife weighs 106 and her builder has suggested going to 36 hole Mavic Open pro rims using X-tra
    lite double butted stainless spokes. First of all, I now find that the manufacturer recommends a max
    of a 28mm tire when I she would want to use a 32 for heavy touring. Question, would the X-tra lite
    double butted stainless spokes be appropriate for heavy touring? I get the feeling that the weight
    difference wouldn't be that much. However, he felt that these wheels would be sturdy. One more
    thing, since she is converting to 700c wheels, she has a choice of getting her front wheel rebuilt
    around a 23 year old phil wood which spins good as new, or getting a 50 credit and getting a DA hub
    wheel for a cost difference of +$50. I see a trade off. The DA's would be lighter but the PWs would
    be lower maintenace. Comments?
    >
    >
    > << I seem to remember that someone here stated that breaking spokes on lessor spoke wheels may
    > result in you not getting home. Is this true if you carry extra spokes?
    >
    > Ya better have a way to take the cassette off as well...
    >
    > Look, you want relaible touring wheels for a package that will weigh
    somewhere
    > about 300 pounds-you, the gear and the bike...what on earth would you even consider 28 hole
    > wheels???
    >
    > What advantage will 28h give you? Weight? see 300 pounds above, aero? fer crissakes, ya got 75
    > pounds of stuff on yer bike, that ain't aero...
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  12. David Ornee <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Wayne, I included the Rivendell Bicycle Works site as well because they are the exclusive US
    : distributor for the 36 spoke version of the Bontrager Fairlane.

    any trek dealer can get the 36-hole bontrager fairlane, or at least they could 9 months ago.

    about 6 months ago someone posted a negative message on those rims & you may want to search
    backwards and look it up, i've since had a similiar experience (pulled every rear drive-side eyelet
    through with apparently normal tension). i'll be trying the mavic t520 or cxp33 next.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  13. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > How about- For you-Ultegra hubs, Mavic CXP-33 or Mavic T520, 36 hole, three cross,
    double
    > butted spokes-

    Since the Mfr recommends that you don't go above 28mm tires for the CXP33s, wouldn't this rim be
    out, or is 28mm tires considered OK for heavy touring? BTW, it appears that either a 15 or 17
    interior width would be best since it give you option to go to tires of less width for club rides.
    For instance the 15 would allow you to use tires from 23-32, and the 17, 25-37. Since I doubt that I
    would want to go to tires less than 25, the 17s may be the way. What are the interior measurements
    for the Mavic T520s and CXP-33.
    >
    > For you wife-see above...saving 40 or 50 grams just isn't going to make a differencein
    > performance. getting stuck just east of bum f__ck Idaho will
    ruin
    > your trip...

    You are correct. Even at 100 grams total savings for two wheel, that would only be a total of 3.5
    ozs. Hardly worth getting stuck.
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  14. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David Ornee <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : Wayne, I included the Rivendell Bicycle Works site as well because they
    are
    > : the exclusive US distributor for the 36 spoke version of the Bontrager Fairlane.
    >
    > any trek dealer can get the 36-hole bontrager fairlane, or at least they could 9 months ago.
    >
    > about 6 months ago someone posted a negative message on those rims & you
    may
    > want to search backwards and look it up, i've since had a similiar
    experience
    > (pulled every rear drive-side eyelet through with apparently normal
    tension).
    > i'll be trying the mavic t520 or cxp33 next.

    Thank you for the feedback. BTW, are you using bike for heavy touring, as the cxp33s only go up to a
    28mm tire?
    > --
    > david reuteler [email protected]
     
  15. Wayne T <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Thank you for the feedback. BTW, are you using bike for heavy touring, as the cxp33s only go up to
    : a 28mm tire?

    i'm not too worried about the 28mm "restriction" .. i've used my mavic openpros with 32mm cyclocross
    tires for thousands of miles and i'm not sure why it'd be any different for touring. i would agree
    it's "better" to have wider rims, however.

    fwiw, i toured on 32mm rears, 28mm fronts (i ran a smaller fender on the front for toe clearance).
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  16. Wayne T <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Thank you for the feedback. BTW, are you using bike for heavy touring, as the cxp33s only go up to
    : a 28mm tire?

    actually there is one very compelling reason to not use the cxp33 for touring and that's not rim
    width but depth. you'll need either a valve extender (which suck and can be a pain with a frame
    pump) or a long stem tube. long stem tubes in the 28-35mm size can be damn hard to get (and almost
    impossible while touring) and even long stem 23mm presta tubes can be hard to find while touring.

    that said, i'd probably go with the mavic t520.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  17. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Wayne T <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : Thank you for the feedback. BTW, are you using bike for heavy touring,
    as
    > : the cxp33s only go up to a 28mm tire?
    >
    > i'm not too worried about the 28mm "restriction" .. i've used my mavic openpros with 32mm
    > cyclocross tires for thousands of miles and i'm not
    sure
    > why it'd be any different for touring. i would agree it's "better" to
    have
    > wider rims, however.

    How difficult is it to mount the 32mm tires on the Open Pros after changing a puntured tube? Can it
    be done by hand or are they rather tight? Also, what tires are you using?
    >
    > fwiw, i toured on 32mm rears, 28mm fronts (i ran a smaller fender on the front for toe clearance).
    > --
    > david reuteler [email protected]
     
  18. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Wayne T <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : Thank you for the feedback. BTW, are you using bike for heavy touring,
    as
    > : the cxp33s only go up to a 28mm tire?
    >
    > actually there is one very compelling reason to not use the cxp33 for
    touring
    > and that's not rim width but depth. you'll need either a valve extender (which suck and can be a
    > pain with a frame pump) or a long stem tube.

    Yes, valve extenders would definitely be a pain since long stem tubes sound rather hard to find. And
    since I have converts screwed onto my prestas so I can use a shraeder pump head, extenders would
    negate that. Incidentally, I use converters so I can use a shraeder head because I find them easier
    to inflate.

    long
    > stem tubes in the 28-35mm size can be damn hard to get (and almost
    impossible
    > while touring) and even long stem 23mm presta tubes can be hard to find while touring.
    >
    > that said, i'd probably go with the mavic t520.
    > --
    > david reuteler [email protected]
     
  19. Wayne T <[email protected]> wrote:
    : How difficult is it to mount the 32mm tires on the Open Pros after changing a puntured tube? Can
    : it be done by hand or are they rather tight? Also, what tires are you using?

    it's trivial. bontrager jones cx, avocet cross-ii 35mm (32mm real) conti tt2k and others. for loaded
    touring i'll stick by with what i said in the last post and say mavic t520s. there's no rational
    reason i can think of to go with open pros over the t520 for touring.

    btw, i'd also go with shimano hubs for touring just 'cause you know every damn shop in the country
    will be able to fix 'em. i use a respaced (to 130mm) shimano xt hub on my touring bike.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  20. Gary Mishler

    Gary Mishler Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote

    >> i use a respaced (to 130mm)
    shimano xt hub on my touring bike. <<

    David -

    I've not heard of this before. How do you respace 135 to 130? Are there any disadvantages
    to doing so?

    Mish
     
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